those people just don't feel the need to shout about it.

Most Mac users buy a Mac becuase:
- It looks nice.
- They once had a problem with Windows (often their own stupid fault).
- Their friends "told them" it was better (hmmmm)
- It makes them feel superior as they are 'different'.

I have all the sympathy with the latter, If it makes you feel good then go ahead and buy one. But you risk becoming a bore just like the Linux bores.

Windows, Linux, Mac, whatever, all have their strengths and weaknesses, but if you are going to switch to Mac, do so for a good reason, and be honest about it (I bought it as it makes me feel superior / looks good etc) and spare us the ill-informed twaddle about how Macs are better all round.

yawn.

I bow to your infinite knowledge.

"Yawn", like "get a life", "deal with it" and other mindless phrases, is designed to be a conversation stopper.

It works.

Perhaps you could now have another look at the title of this thread and specifically to whom it is addressed, and take appropriate action. This is a forum remarkably free of personal attacks, and the regular users would like to keep it that way.

Tallsandwich,

Why are you here? You obviously love your PC and hate Mac, fine - I really don't care. But you are quite wrong in many areas. To correct some of your points:

1. Yes Safari isn't that great, I tend to use Firefox. But at least Apple support and update Safari. Microsoft have all but forgotten about Explorer. Tabbed browsing - what's that? Secure browsing? No chance. Pop-ups? Yeah, loads!

2. No I did not wreck my PC because of fiddling. My PC (which I still have) is wrecked due to the ridiculously huge amount of cr@ap that just appears on it, usually unsolicited just from normal web browsing. Even my company PC, which is supposedly locked down, doesn't work properly - probably because of the sheer weight of the firewalls and anti-virus software that is a necessity on PCs just to protect them from the above. The fact that the MS operating system insists on changing its registry every time you install software (and thus causing all sorts of problems over time) is indeed an MS problem - not mine. By the way I am not a tinkerer - just the opposite. Tinkerers tend to like Windows because of its swiss cheese-like structure. And those who are really hardcore tend to gravitate to Linux. Mac users like Macs because they don't like to tinker. Why should I have to tinker just to get my computer to work the way it was advertised?

3. I agree with you here. Apple is just as nasty a company as MS is and they would love to be a controlling monopoly given the opportunity. That's just big business. They are not the loveable Apple underdogs that some people like to think.

4. Macs are more reliable, not because there is less software and hardware than PCs (there is still loads of both) but because of the way the OS handles it (ie not having to alter the "registry" and having to restart every time you plug something in). Macs are simply more reliable because the OS is better, more stable and more robust. End of story.

5. Yes you can screw up the OS just like Windows. But guess what - it tends to fix itself if you do something wrong! If it all goes wrong, a simple reboot sorts everything out. By the way, I only reboot maybe once a month. Try doing that with windows.

I am not trying to convert you to Mac, but get your facts straight before you talk about something you clearly know not a lot about.

The Thread title was "Apple Mac Users - A Question" So, my question was "Why Mac users always seem to have a superior attitude"

I made my point: Advising someone that Macs are better than Wintels is pointless and does not help a potnetial Mac buyer, it all depends on what you are doing and who you are. My comment helps a potential Mac buyer from being brainwashed (a frequent occurance). You see the same polorised and parallel comments from Linux lovers.

I highlighted that many Mac users are to blame for their (ex) Wintel nightmares - not all of them (there are others who buy Macs to try and make themselves look cool) and a very few who actually know Mac OS has significant advantages in some areas.

And don't say "I don't know what I am talking about", when you don't know me - that would imply that you are in fact talking about someting that you don't know about - i.e. me.

The best computer these days is one that has a flame retardant battery compartment. Good luck with your Macs, I'm glad you are passionate about them.

Sorry tallsandwich, but I simply do not agree with you at all.

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about why Mac users "superior attitude" :confused:. This is patently untrue - what you interpret as superior attitude is more often just a very, very satisifed computer owner. Sorry that it upsets you that we like our computers instead of merely put up with them (as I do with my company-issued PC).

I said that you don't know what you are talking about purely on the basis that the "facts", as you put them, are totally incorrect. If you did know what you are talking about then you wouldn't post incorrect information. You present the information as if it is fact that everyone is being "brainwashed" and that people only buy Macs because they look cool. Where does this come from (brainwashed - "a frequent occurence" you said! Do you REALLY know this)? No one is being brainwashed here - people are simply asking questions and getting a positive response. What's so wrong with that? And yes, Macs look cool but they wouldn't sell much hardware if the owner experience was cr@p. Most people who buy Macs are well aware of the advantages. If they weren't they are way more likely just to buy a PC since everyone they know probably has one. Don't worry - MS isn't exactly losing market share to Apple here. But I am sure glad that we have a choice.

Lets agree to disagree, at least someone reading this will see two sides of the discussion. There is no point going over all the thousands of pros and cons.

You obviously love your Mac and are saying all my opinions are invalid - that is exactly the "one sided view" that makes me dispair!!! Many people DO buy Macs as a backlash from their own self induced Wintel problems, you can't say that is not true!!! ("I switched to Mac after I had to restore my registry blah blah" - if you ask these people why they did it, it is VERY OFTEN for stupid reasons). This is a FACT.

How about reporting all the pitfalls of your Mac experience? (and I beg - please don't ridicule yourselves by saying you haven't had any).

I had to get a mouse replaced under warranty.

:rolleyes:

:}

nice one


:D

I would love to know what your definition of "stupid reasons" is. Why shouldn't I be able to use my computer - the way I want to, as is advertised - without it slowing down/crashing/generally behaving strangely?

You seem to think that there are a lot of PC users who have bought Macs as a result of messing around with their registry and wrecking it. Whilst there may be some, this is a very very niche thing. And you have to ask yourself, why would anyone want to fiddle with the registry? Usually because its messed up. And don't say that it is because they were doing "stupid things" because it is very well known that registry files become corrupt for reasons totally unrelated to user intervention. And there is no simple way of fixing these things unless you are very clever or very lucky. AND for many windows problems, the fix-it-yourself solution presented on the Microsoft website invites you to fiddle with the registry. Of course they give you the appropriate health warnings but can you blame people for trying to fix their computers the way MS advises?

The kind of user you are describing does not fit the demographic of the user who tends to purchase Apple products. In general, the Apple market is post-secondary educated, affluent and to a large degree, female. Not exactly the high school kid doing "stupid things" with his computer in his bedroom upstairs.

As far as things that have gone wrong. I had a kernel panic once which I tracked down to my Norton Antivirus software. Getting rid of it solved that, and I haven't had that problem in the two years since (and haven't had a virus problem either). I sometimes have trouble getting the computer to connect to my wireless network when it wakes from sleep mode but only the imac not the laptop. Solution, I just keep it on all the time, which is how unix based systems like to be anyway, as they are default scheduled to do system maintenance at night. Although I admit I would like to get that one solved. And occasionally when there is a major operating system update I have to delete and reinstall my printer as it doesn't get recognised.

And that's about it. Really. Would you like me to share my PC experiences with you? I'll need a few hours to write it all down.

Interesting post.

Regarding editing the registry - in effect this is no different to editing configuration files on a unix (I use that term loosely) type machine. It is often percevied that it is acceptable to edit by hand such files on a unix(ish) system (I am not refering only to Macs but other desktop OS such as Linux aswell), but when this hierarchical list of name-value pairs is stored in an evil thing called a "registry" then suddenly this editing is deemed "unacceptable". Perhpaps if it was a little easier to manage a "registry" and revert back to old versions of it then this perception would change.

Regarding you comment about Women and Macs - in general they are statistically well known to place style above other factors, hence the Mac choice; so "technically" they did not choose a better system, just one that had the right (most would agree 'better') image and packaging.

tallsandwich & northeast canuck,

You have both had ample opportunity to put forward your opinions on this topic, and I think that others have got the thrust of your arguments.

It would be preferable if any further discussion between yourselves could be conducted via PM or email.

Thanks

SD

I've got a new MACBOOK duo core. . .got rid of my Toshiba with duo core etc.
I found the MAC is better for what i need. . Photo's, Music, Editing, E-mail, add on programs.

I run microsoft office purely so i can exchange files via e-mail with PC users.
Also run parrallels for windows because i also like using windows.

In my view i've got the best of both!

JF

I have no axe to grind and have owned a PC since 1990. I still use a desktop PC which I built myself. I understand Windows sufficiently to make my PC run well. I have to take issue when it is said that it is only through fiddling that Windows becomes corrupted, it isn't.

My PC hangs for a minute or so now when I right click on anything in Explorer. Through diagnostic software I have found what is happening but am struggling to cure the problem. This problem just appeared without me doing anything.

I recently bought a Mac Bok Pro. It overheated and locked up frequently. It was replaced under warranty. I bought one knowing I could run Windows if I so desired. As yet I haven't needed or wanted to!

Sorry, I have been converted although I hope I have resisted becoming evangelical about it.

I find some big irritations like no right mouse button, no 'Del' key and not being able to program the mouse pointer to jump to a pop up window automatically.

From opening the box and switching it on it was a dream to set up and it saw and used my wireless network with no hassle.

Costwise it was only slightly more expensive than a similar specification Advent (about £100) and was 500g lighter.

If someone finds Windows irresistible, good luck, it doesn't affect me and me using a Mac doesn't affect you so we can all live in harmony.

Is that some dodgy knock off from Thailand? ;)

The problem with Macs is that, if you are busy, their customer services are utter pants. Also the quality of the parts aren't great.

To clarify I bought an iMac about 6 months ago on the basis that 'er indoors liked them 'cos they are pretty. Much as I moaned to her about lack of ability to fiddle with the insides etc (my old pc was 6 years old, although no part of it was more than 2 years old) she wouldn't listed and, being newly married, I thought that I would indulge her.

Couple of months later and the hard drive fails spectacularly; mention it to a mate who has a Mac and he has been through 3 hard drives in 2 years.

Decide to wait until such a time that I can take it back to Regent Street as Apple charge you for home repairs and me taking it apart would void the warranty. Turn up at Regent Street on a Saturday and get told that they can't look at the computer unless I book an appointment. To book an appointment more than a day in advance means I have to pay Apple lots of money. Check the next Saturday morning for appointment times and it is taken up with people who have paid Apple lots of money so can't get the computer repaired.

Try non-Apple people who are authorised to repair the machine; only work 9-5 Mon-Fri; which isn't all that useful to someone who works 8-6 Mon-Fri.

Basically it took us a month before we could get the computer to Apple to repair it. I explained to the guy that the hard drive had failed but he did some tests and said that it hadn't and it was another fault which would mean the Mac had to stay with them. Fine, I said, but when you discover it is the hard drive and replace it can I have the old one so that I can get a mate who works for "the government" to get the info off it. No problems he said.

A week later and I get a call saying that it was the hard drive and I can pick the machine up. Turn up and no old hard drive as it was "binned". Lucky I had only had the machine for a few months so I didn't lose all that much info but am now backing up once a week which I never had to do on my pc.


Having said all that I love the interface, I love the stability (although it does crash) and I love the simplicity of the way it works. Would definitely get another but would be very wary of anyone who says Apples are well made or that their customer services are good. If you want good customer services then get a Dell!

Not sure about the quality of the parts but I tend to agree with a couple of James's other observations, especially concerning service. Thought I might have had a malfunctioning DVD drive the other day but suspected it was more likely something I had done wrong. Rang Apple service; straight through to an English-speaking human who took the details.
Would sir like the three year $249 phone support option? Err, no thank you.

Very well, then sir will be taking the one off $49 option?

Err, que? This is still under warranty!

Yes, but you only get three months free phone support.

Let me see if I've got this right. This machine is under warranty; it may or may not have a fault, but to find out I'll have to pay $49?

Well, nobody is going to offer you free support, sir.

Thank you for nothing, say I, and hang up.

Ring up the local shop where I purchased the machine, described the problem, directed to a simple option I hadn't ticked, et voila! Fixed.

Then a couple of days ago, I had exactly the same problem with my replacement mouse as I had with the original; the scroll button would not scroll down. Took it into the shop, they checked it, yep, faulty, we'll send that away to be replaced. Do I get a replacement now? No, you have to wait till it comes from the factory. Hmmm. Not a major problem I agree, but indicative of their policy regarding inventory which they deliberately keep at minimum levels.

I'd also agree that if you like playing with the insides of a computer, stick with a PC. I learned a lot about computers from stuffing around inside my PC, but only because I had to. I'd be quite happy never to take the cover off a computer again and so far I've seen no reason to with the Mac.

Chacun a son gout. Mac's arent the answer to everybody's prayer, but so what? It appears to get up some people's noses that Mac owners are very happy with their machines; again, so be it.

Lots of good information here.

So I thunk you chaps might be able to help with a small associated problem:

I've got two Macs; not the Intel jobbies, though. But I also have a number (don't ask why) of Nokia telephones. The latest, an E60, has all sorts of interesting things on it, like a mobile diary, appointment reminder, etc. But, to make it work, it says it needs a Windoze machine.

Has anybody had any luck interfacing a Nokia to a Mac?

Thanks in advance for any useful hints, tips, used fivers, etc...

Cheers,

Ol.

iSync with this plugin looks to be what your after :ok:

Kind sir,

A thousand thanks. I Googled and Googled to no avail. Then in one swell foop, you solved my problem.

I hope. Downloaded the thing and am now playing. If I get really stuck I might have to read the manual...

Cheers,

Ol.

Well put simply, I'm just a really satisfied customer. the Mac has just been great and hasn't let me down in any way. I have Firefox and Opera installed but I actually like Safari....

I still use Office and Wintel in work and I can swap files no problem between the two, the Office for Mac is a great product from MS.

So I'm afraid that's what it boils down to for me, I'm just very happy with my computer. Simple as that.

OK, another random question. I've been trying to tidy up my documents folder, which has files and folders going back well into the 90's. Easy enough to drag folders into the trash, but now I find myself with a page with large spaces between files and folders. You know how the Windows desktop has an "Arrange Icons" command which lines everything up nicely? Is there an equivalent on the Mac, so I don't have to laboriously drag and drop each file within the one folder? Shurely there ish?

For Desktop: Finder ~> Desktop ~> View ~> Arrange By ~> Make Your Choice.

Once you're inside a folder, works similarly.

Hmmm, thank you dear lady. One is humbled at the breadth of knowledge in one so young. So just who IS the lucky man to whom you are betrothed? One of the Kennedy's perhaps? A Vanderbilt, perchance? Or simply a major player in Bonfire of the Vanities or, heaven forbid, American Psycho? If there were any justice in the world you would look like the south end of an eastbound crab, but I suspect that is not the case.

(err, thanks Acro; just a bit of aussie humour there!) :8

And I accept your offer to show me your beloved home "town" if the offer still stands.

No nasty claws, just a discrete manicure.

Ahh, an Aussie-ism without thinking has perhaps led (lead? it is late) to a misunderstanding. A blokey aussie observation on a female used to be, going back to my schooldays, that she looked like the south end of a northbound camel. This was not generally considered a compliment.

It evolved into the south end of an eastbound crab for no obvious reason apart, perhaps, from the desire of the Australian male to protect the female of the species from hurt feelings. Such care can be heard every night in pubs and every weekend at sporting events. The aussie male is a gentle breed, given to fiercely protecting the feelings of...... what in god's name am I babbling on about here? In a computer forum?

Phew! Sorry. My second apology in a day on Pprune. Age is wearying me, and the years condemning. :ooh:

Actually, I took no offense, as it could be read as a compliment. So, took it literally ~ that perhaps the right-hand claw of a crab was the bigger tastier morsel. Looked down at the keyboard... hands seemed reasonably symmetrical... certainly not a meal :p one would have to crack a shell to get at.

OK, another question. My MacBook, only a few months old, is getting sloooowwww. In the dark days I would have run a few spyware programs and CrapCleaner and everything would have been hunky dory, but I don't know what the normal protocol is on the Mac. All advice gratefully received as always.

Binos,

The first thing to try is repairing your disk permissions.

1. Open Disk Utiliy (Utilities Folder, within the Applications folder)
2. Click the top disk on the left (your startup disk)
3. Click "Verify Permissions"
4. Click "Repair Permission"
5. Quit Disk Utility

This may sort it out - it's the only bit of disk management you need to do on the Mac, usually once a month or when you install new software.

Another classic "slowing down" reason is because the disk is too full. You need to keep 3Gb-5Gb of the disk free for OSX to run well.

Try Disk Utility, if that doesn't work, perhaps you could let us know more details about your system to work out other protential reasons why it's running slowly?

Applemacster

You could also trying running the maintenance scripts. There a 3 scripts which are designed to run automatically early in the morning with the computer still on obviously. Daily, Weekly and Monthly. They clear up temp files or something and sometimes help with a slow down like you described.

I recommend this utility, Onyx. Take time to read the readme file and be aware of what this little app is capable of. She's not to be messed with.

Includes some nice misc. parameters like locking dock icons, placing two scroll arrows at both ends of the scroll column etc.

"It allows you to run misc tasks of system maintenance, to configure certain hidden parameters of the Finder, Dock, Safari, Dashboard, Expose, Disk Utility... to delete cache, to remove a certain number of files and folders that may become cumbersome, to see the detailed info of your configuration, to preview the different logs and CrashReporter reports, and more."

OK, I'm about to head off to work, but I'll try Onyx tonight. It sounds though as if the disk utilities repair is designed to do the same thing.

Macster, I tried that and it didn't make any difference; Entourage takes a full minute to load. It's a bog standard MacBook, basic version, current model with 512Mb RAM, and it has about 13Gb free hard drive space. :confused:

Binos,

That doesn't sound right to me. It shouldn't take a minute to load Entourage. You could try opening "Activity Monitor" (Applications>Utilities) and see if anything is overloading the CPU.

Do you have the latest system update (currently 10.4.8)?

Good luck,

Applemacster.

AcroChik,
Regarding your August 4th post on bluetooth mouse problems. (Yeah, I know it's almost two months ago. I spend 99% of my Pprune time on Rotorheads, but tonight decided to poke around. What's this, a forum full of Mac-types? Cooooool!)
My G4 desk-bound isn't bluetooth equipped, but I couldn't stand the mouse cable getting in the way anymore. So, I turned to my favorite Mac-stuff vendor, Other World Computing. They sell an RF mouse made by Logitech that is wireless and optical. (Why are mice with balls still sold? They should be outlawed. I can't believe people use them, much less buy them.) It's a 3-button with scroll wheel. Anyway, the receiver is sort of triangle shaped, about the area of a deck of cards, and I plugged mine into the keyboard's left USB port. The mouse holds two AA batteries (that's the only potential downside, as it makes the mouse a bit bigger). I use NiMH batteries, which I have to change/recharge about every three weeks. When the batteries get low, the mouse freezes because the communication just quit. Change batteries and keep on going. The great part? It's all of $16! See it here in the RF section:
http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/input-devices/
Also, currently in the "Specials" section is a similar mouse for $13. See it here:
http://eshop.macsales.com/Item_Speci...LOG931025-0403
There now, that cable can stop being a pain the desk!! :ok:
Happy mousing, Rotorfan

I think I’m about to take a deep breath and go Mac after 10+ years of Windoze.

It seems to me that the only difference between the two white MacBooks currently on offer in the UK is a slightly higher clock speed and a ‘SuperDrive’ – and about £150. I have dual drives on my home PC so better to save my £150?

Main use for the lappy is pic/video editing, but I might need to create the occasional word doc or spreadsheet that is PC-readable. Do I need to buy the ‘Office For Mac’ at just over £100 or can I get away with some free software?

All input gratefully received :)

Go for it
 

Unconcerned - go for it.
I teach on Windoze - anything else for I use the Mac. I've an iMac at home and a portable - both running OS X. ( they're not intel mac's though).
You can get a Student edition Office 2004 - i thinkit cost me around £60 - Loadsa plusses - but downside - I occasionally get web pages that don't work right so check it out if you use one of the Flight Planning websites - If you do e mail me and I'll see how it reacts to the mac and let you know. The freebie from Loop didn't work for example.
So when you do get your Mac you can walk around wid a smug smile on your face - Software Crashes - what are they?

Unconcerned,

Welcome to Macintosh!

You can download Neooffice for free. It will read and write Word, Excel and Powerpoint files.

If you're happy to drag files over to your PC to burn onto DVD, then get the slower MacBook. However, you won't be able to use iDVD, for example, in this way.

Applemacster

Best thing I ever did.

I have a MiniMac here and I love it! Just a shame I have to use a PC 9 till 5 everyday. The only downfalls I find are like you said the 'MS Office package' and the lack of games for the Mac. I think I'll be getting my hands on Virtual PC by the end of the week so all should be ok from there on.

Have you seen the Mac Adverts??

Good luck.

Andrew

Alpha Male,

Virtual PC is not going to help your games famine. On the G4 chip, Virtual PC will not run fast enough to play PC games. It's really only good for non-graphics-heavy packages, such as Office. Switchers from Windows would typically buy it to run a "must have" package which hasn't been ported to the Mac; eg Sage for Accountants switching to the Mac.

If you have an Intel MacMini, Virtual PC won't work. To run Windows software in emulation, you'll need something like Parallels. It's a lot faster than VirtualPC, but still won't run fast enough to play (graphics-intensive) Windows games. To run games properly on an Intel MacMini, you will need to install Boot Camp and boot up as a Windows machine.

A good place to find games is Macgold and Macgamer is a review and news site dedicated to games on the Mac.

Applemacster

Many thanks for all the replies :ok: :)

I'm a tad confused regarding the inability to burn DVDs on the cheaper MacBook. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention to the salesman, but I thought that was OK - I just couldn't direct copy them. I've got twin drives on my home PC so I can copy discs on there as necessary, but I would need the facility to burn disks on the laptop from its hard drive. Am I being a MacDummy already? :(

I hardly ever play games on a PC, so that's not an issue. I suppose the only other thing I need to decide is whether I need Office For Mac or whether I can get by with Neooffice.

I think I need a personal sticky for all the useful Mac utilities with such unfamiliar names!

Ahh thanks for putting me straight! :ok:

That is the other problem with Macs ... Not many people know enough about them when you want advise - unless you have somebody like 'AppleMacster' on a forum.

Just to confirm I have a '1.66GHz Intel Core Duo' with soon to be upgraded Ram from 512 to 1Gb

Thanks again

Andrew

(Just spotted X-Plane 8 on that site)