Multiple routers for wireless connection?
 

I don't want to raise any hackles unnecessarily but to explain my problem I have no alternative but to say that I have a very big house.... I have a router in my office downstairs and my main PC connects with a wire. Visitors come and go with their laptops and have no problem with wireless connection if they are in a room nearby my office but they often want to connect from their bedroom, which might be 50 yards away, or from the terrace and there are nearly always connection problems.

We've tried external antennae but have gained little that way.

I have a cupboard full of wireless routers from companies whose services we have abandoned over the years. Could I get better coverage by connecting one or more of them to strategically located telephone outlet points around the house? Would they interfere with each other or would they just give any user a list of possible conections even though they all ultimately link to the same supplier? Would my supplier object - or even realise? If there are no technical issues, how would I adjust (program?) these routers from different companies to play the game?

Thank you, John.

Mind you, I should have been bright enough not to have posted it during Murray's semifinal....!

If you can run a cable between the 2 routers then:

Configure the IP address of the secondary router to be in the same subnet as the primary router, but out of the range of the DHCP server in the primary router.

Disable the DHCP server in the secondary router.

Set up the wireless section just the way you would if it was the primary router.

Connect from the primary router's LAN port to one of the LAN ports on the secondary router. If there is no uplink port and neither of the routers have auto-sensing ports, use a cross-over cable. Leave the WAN port unconnected!

If you cant cable connect the you probably will have to use something like this: Hawking Technologies

Thank you for that, Green Granite, but can't I take advantage of the routers which I already have littering up my cupboard to set up something permanent?

I should have said, in my last post, that it would be most inconvenient to cable things together without using the telephone network in the house to do so. I hoped to be able simply to plug one or two of the spare routers into telephone connectors in other parts of the house.

Can't be done, period.

You can get hold of ethernet over power line devices instead of running CAT5 cable to connect the routers (littering up your cupboard) as GG has suggested (and it would be permanent).

SD

I addressed this issue using a homeplug wireless extender set. CAT5 cable from router to homeplug in wall socket, then plug extender nearby to where laptop user is. Configure extender as a separate wireless net: it just works. My system came from a Dutch manufacturer - I can't answer for the simplicity of any other systems.
Not cheap and won't employ your other routers. Sorry.

get yourself a wireless bridge. This will allow you to extend your existing network around the house. Belkin make such a thing: Belkin : Wireless G Universal Range Extender

Wot Unixman said.

Most wireless routers can act either in access mode or as a bridge. Some can act as both at the same time. Since you've got a cupboard full of the things, you might be lucky.

To go further with the "bridge", some routers can be configured to act as a wireless bridge whilst allowing you to connect to them. Used to have such a setup meself. Can be a bugger to set up though

Thank you, Bushfiva and hellsbrink. Do you mean, effectively, that some routers can be set up to act, more or less, in the same way as the special gizmos mentioned earlier in the thread? That would be excellent, if I can work out how to do it, which can do it (they're in Spanish) and how to reset one company's device to act like the new company's device....

Yes, some can. Can be an absolute godsend and all you have to do is tuck a router into a convenient hidey-hole on each floor and off you go.

The other option has also been suggested, and that's LAN over power.

Most (practically all) can be set as the specialized gizmo: for example, you use two of them to create a point-to-point wireless link. Then you can add another wireless router (using a cable) to the one at the end, to be your access point.

Some can play the role of the specialized gizmo (the bridge) and the access point.

Some can only be access points.

Basically, you halve the number of devices you need with the dual-purpose devices.

If the stuff you have is generic branded kit, you may be able to re-flash it back to UK or US English.

If some of it is Linksys, for example, and you're an adventurous person, you might be able to re-flash it using third-party software that adds features.

An example of a "do everything" device is the Linksys WET54G (which is probably discontinued) or the Linksys WAP2000 which is a "really do everything" device. But since you admirably want to re-use your existing stuff, simply use the internet to discover their complete specifications, and carry on from there.

One thing to be careful with is choosing the channels for the various devices: you have 11-14 channels available depending on your country, but you basically need to use the lowest, the highest, and the one in the middle to minimise interference.

If you think you have to spend money at any point, I'd personally go for ethernet over power, which would be the equivalent of the bridge parts of your network, and way simpler to install/understand unless you have a thing for multiple wireless devices, interference, and screwing up the DHCP.

I bought a Belkin Range Extender and it was absolutely useless in that function. It was so deaf that it didn't extend range.

I have come upon a donated Hewlett Packard Procurve 530 Access Point. It is a *very* fancy box, but I have not used the features which would probably solve Cameronian's problems. The 530 contains two complete wireless sections, both of them with diversity and can use either built-in or external antennas. One of them is a usual 802.11b/g WiFi. The other can be configured for 802.11 a or b/g.

The key feature is that these boxes can be configured so that one of the wireless sections can be used as a bridge to additional 530s to make a large and complex wireless network. Presumably you would use the 802.11a RF section as the link to further Procurve 530 boxes some distance away.

Need I tell you that the Procurve 530 costs about ten times as much as a cheapo Belkin access point? It seems to be a professional-grade product.

[My purchase of the Belkin Range Extender wasn't a complete loss, since I now use it in its 802.11 b/g WiFi Access Point mode.]

seacue

I've not done it myself, but I know a bloke who has a 4-port wireless modem router with two of the ports running in (long) Cat5 cables to wireless access points at the two ends of his property. That gives him coverage over a pretty extensive area.

The secret was in using high-quality (long range) wireless kit. It wasn't horribly expensive, either.

I've not tried those mains-borne devices but I've heard good reports about those, too. I don't know if you can hook a wireless access point onto one, though.

I would seriously question "most"!!

Perhaps that is true of currently available products, but unlikely to be true of stuff more than a couple of years old - and stuff lying around in cupboards is unlikely to be new.

For example, the ubiquitous Netgear WGR614 is now at v9, and it is ONLY v9 and above that supports WDS (Wireless Distributed System), Netgear's implementation of built-in wifi repeater funtionality. v9 was released in 2008, I believe.

Only 3 Netgear wifi routers (as opposed to access points only) supported WDS 2 years ago, and six by mid-2008.

To add to the problem, many ISPs implemented bespoke firmware on the routers provided to end users, and removed or crippled some functionality. I am aware of one major UK ISP that removed the WDS functionality from the WGR614 v9.

Finally, the WDS feature is not completely specified in IEEE or Wi-Fi standards, therefore interoperability between 802.11 products of different vendors is not guaranteed. The same is probably true of other vendors' offerings.

So in summary, the chances of being able to delve into a cupboard of cast-off ISP-specific wifi routers and make up a working extended wifi-repeated network are very low indeed.

However, simply cascading one device from another via a physical ethernet connection - as per GG's original suggestion - is almost guaranteed to work, irrespective of the make, model and firmware of the devices.

Keef - of course you can, no problem. It's just another ethernet node.

SD

You would need to define your master router (the one connected to the DSL) and use that as your DHCP server. You would need to make sure the routers that are bridging have their routing functionality switched off and also their DHCP servers switched off. The side affect of which will be that most likely any wired connections on the bridged routers will no longer work.

Cheers

Probably silly and will leave the room with hat and coat... But.....

How about two wireless modems at either end of the mansion running off of the same tel line???

Running for cover as we speak.

:}

Two words - im possible!

Now go get your hat and coat, silly.

SD

Hee-hee!

I'm in the process of getting the routers out of their boxes and I like the idea of chasing up their specs on the net rather than trying to do so from their manuals. My conversational Spanish is good (sobresaliente) but it's easy to go wrong in the technical stuff, especially in unaccustomed subject areas.

The "over-the-mains" idea (like baby alarms) is attractive but I have 3-phase electricity with the house divided among the phases by zone so I may not be able to carry the signal to remote areas that way because the same phase probably won't be used there.

I could try for a super-range antenna which each guest could use on their laptop but I don't want the locals setting up their deckchairs in rows at the gate to take advantage of my generosity!