Buying a cheapish personal desktop
High Flying Bird
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Buying a cheapish personal desktop
I know this is a difficult question, but since it's been years and years since I last bought a desktop, I could do with some advice.
I'm looking to spend around £600-700 on a new desktop PC.
It will be mainly for writing and surfing the 'net. A bit of gaming (strategy rather than beat-'em-up), perhaps Microsoft FlightSim a little down the line when I have money for the software and a decent joystick. Not for watching films, although I'll probably watch the odd clip online.
I don't knowingly have any friends who could build me one. A colleague offered several months ago, but every time I ask him about it he stalls... and I can't wait much longer.
Really what I think I need is some pointers towards which manufacturers to look for and which to avoid. What mimima I should settle for in terms of disk space, processor speed, DVD writing, screen etc (I don't want more than 17", but what are the cheaper flat screens like?). I don't want a cordless keyboard or mouse, but are these standard now whether you like it or not?
Thanks in advance!
I'm looking to spend around £600-700 on a new desktop PC.
It will be mainly for writing and surfing the 'net. A bit of gaming (strategy rather than beat-'em-up), perhaps Microsoft FlightSim a little down the line when I have money for the software and a decent joystick. Not for watching films, although I'll probably watch the odd clip online.
I don't knowingly have any friends who could build me one. A colleague offered several months ago, but every time I ask him about it he stalls... and I can't wait much longer.
Really what I think I need is some pointers towards which manufacturers to look for and which to avoid. What mimima I should settle for in terms of disk space, processor speed, DVD writing, screen etc (I don't want more than 17", but what are the cheaper flat screens like?). I don't want a cordless keyboard or mouse, but are these standard now whether you like it or not?
Thanks in advance!
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You can buy a reasonable Dell for under £200 on their outlet site (sometimes much less - I have a Dell 2.4GHz Celeron with a gig of memory sitting under my desk that set me back £70 about a year ago, and it's happily been on 24/7 since). The really cheap ones aren't great for games as they use integrated graphics and have no AGP or PCI-E slot, but would do all you ask apart from Flight Sim, as I assume strategy games aren't that graphics intensive (may be wrong!). If you do want something a bit more powerful, then the higher-spec Dells come in easily under £400. Just watch and wait, and don't buy the first thing that comes along.
I have to add the caveat that i'm not really a Dell fan, because the components are a bit cheap and technical support generally doesn't, but at the outlet prices it's hard to go wrong.
As for spec, just about any processor would be fine these days unless you're really into high end gaming, but look for a gig of memory and 80Gb as a minimum hard disk. Monitors are all fine these days too IMHO, even the cheapest of 17" TFTs seem fine to me, just check for dead pixels if you get a chance.
edit: I should also add that the Mac Mini is really nice...
I have to add the caveat that i'm not really a Dell fan, because the components are a bit cheap and technical support generally doesn't, but at the outlet prices it's hard to go wrong.
As for spec, just about any processor would be fine these days unless you're really into high end gaming, but look for a gig of memory and 80Gb as a minimum hard disk. Monitors are all fine these days too IMHO, even the cheapest of 17" TFTs seem fine to me, just check for dead pixels if you get a chance.
edit: I should also add that the Mac Mini is really nice...
Just Binos
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Can't imagine English prices are too different to Oz prices, so agree with Evo that your 600-700 quid is way over the top for what you want. If you're not interested in high-end graphics, the cheapest entry level desktop these days is going to do everything you want. Buy it from your local reputable dealer so there are no problems with service, and you can't go wrong really.
Don't accept less than 512Mb RAM, and there is no need to accept a CRT monitor either. Flat screens are the default now.
Entry level laptops here are now the equivalent of 400 quid, so a basic desktop should be less than that with all the features you need.
Don't accept less than 512Mb RAM, and there is no need to accept a CRT monitor either. Flat screens are the default now.
Entry level laptops here are now the equivalent of 400 quid, so a basic desktop should be less than that with all the features you need.
As for DVD burning: ask yourself if you will ever use this feature. On the other hand, DVD burners are quite cheap these days so if your not sure, it's not a big deal to include one. If you do go for one make sure that it can burn Double Layer discs, that way you'll be able to handle almost any DVD disc that you can get. The most recent gadget on the DVD market is Lightscribe, which lets you burn an image or text on the label side of the disc, which looks quite good but apparently takes quite a while (on top of the normal burning process). I'm not convinced that it is worth the extra money for the burner and the special discs. I'll stick to a simple CD marking pen for now. 
TheVillagePhotographer.co.uk
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Processing popwer these days is vast, compared to PCs of only a few years ago. What you have asked for will be done admirably by a cheapy, but FS is going to make it sweat just as much as anything, including fast arcade/shoot 'em ups, etc. Thing is with FS that you ideally want at least 512mb RAM and preferably 1GB, plus a seperate (64MB at least) video card. This is no real sweat and your chosen supplier will often do an upgrade for peanuts. Extra memory will give much more elbow room and give the impression of a faster and smoother (for longer!) system
The screen? LCD is superb for living with and for general purpose useage, Once you have one, you will need a good reason to go back to CRT. Even with an LCD flat screen, don't go for less than a 17 inch screen, which is rapidly becoming the default size.
Hard disk? Even 80GB is a pain nowadays, but quite adequate. Another ten quid will probably get you 160GB though!
Other features come into the odds and sods category and can be added later if needed.
The only caveat to the above, is this. If you are going to splash out, get the most powerful machine that you can reasonably afford, as it will be so much longer before you are back in the position that you are in now. A cheap buy now, will ideally still be seen as being good value for money in two or three years.
Let us know if we can help,
Conan
The screen? LCD is superb for living with and for general purpose useage, Once you have one, you will need a good reason to go back to CRT. Even with an LCD flat screen, don't go for less than a 17 inch screen, which is rapidly becoming the default size.
Hard disk? Even 80GB is a pain nowadays, but quite adequate. Another ten quid will probably get you 160GB though!
Other features come into the odds and sods category and can be added later if needed.
The only caveat to the above, is this. If you are going to splash out, get the most powerful machine that you can reasonably afford, as it will be so much longer before you are back in the position that you are in now. A cheap buy now, will ideally still be seen as being good value for money in two or three years.
Let us know if we can help,
Conan
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I reckon you're always better off building machines yourself Aerbabe.
Not only will you save money but you get exactly what you want. Building your own really isn't difficult and is very satisfying. You could find a supplier offering exactly what you want but generally, almost universally, they include some rubbish in the system.
Personally I'd recommend Asus motherboards (especially the A8 series with integrated NVidia graphics and Audio), getting a reasonable case and a very good monitor. Go for a lowish end chip in the motherboard as the price of chips sinks through the floor faster than they can change the prices. Any chip in a newbuild system is seriously quick and you can upgrade once the mobos highest chip is dirt cheap. Same with memory really, 512 is always going to be more than enough and just bung a new chip or two in if you need more when its really dirt cheap.
Don't like the TFTs meself though useful if you are likely to move around a lot. You can get a seriously high end CRT which would have been several hundred quid and only used by DTP or CAD users for the cost of naff TFT now.
Figure on about £400 including monitor if you build one yourself. Don't buy the software, just enroll on a CPD course (£100) at your local uni and you can download any Microsoft software you want for free. XP and Office would set you back a lot more on their own....
Not only will you save money but you get exactly what you want. Building your own really isn't difficult and is very satisfying. You could find a supplier offering exactly what you want but generally, almost universally, they include some rubbish in the system.
Personally I'd recommend Asus motherboards (especially the A8 series with integrated NVidia graphics and Audio), getting a reasonable case and a very good monitor. Go for a lowish end chip in the motherboard as the price of chips sinks through the floor faster than they can change the prices. Any chip in a newbuild system is seriously quick and you can upgrade once the mobos highest chip is dirt cheap. Same with memory really, 512 is always going to be more than enough and just bung a new chip or two in if you need more when its really dirt cheap.
Don't like the TFTs meself though useful if you are likely to move around a lot. You can get a seriously high end CRT which would have been several hundred quid and only used by DTP or CAD users for the cost of naff TFT now.
Figure on about £400 including monitor if you build one yourself. Don't buy the software, just enroll on a CPD course (£100) at your local uni and you can download any Microsoft software you want for free. XP and Office would set you back a lot more on their own....
TheVillagePhotographer.co.uk
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Not too sure about building your own... Great if you enjoy it, but when you tot it all up - and then add an OEM WIndows XP, there ain't much to be saved... (Though if anyone needs an Intel chip, PM me)
My own home build had every component other than the case (No, I am not joking) changed. And then, the XP buy (XP Pro £137 with no support afterwards) would have made it cheaper to buy online. I must admit, I did enjoy the build though. I now concentrate on learning to tie my shoelaces.
Conan
My own home build had every component other than the case (No, I am not joking) changed. And then, the XP buy (XP Pro £137 with no support afterwards) would have made it cheaper to buy online. I must admit, I did enjoy the build though. I now concentrate on learning to tie my shoelaces.
Conan
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HaHa... My own fault really, but all of my components were good value -it is just that I could not resist the urge to upgrade on the way ( on the bigger and better route, HD, RAM, Vid/Sound, proc, etc) The final indignity was the £137 for an OEM Win XP, for which MS give no support at all, unless you pay them another few hundred quid. The machine turned from a major upgrade into something of a Rolls Royce. At least, the PC will stay viable for a long time yet and that must be factored into the cost as well.
Still not convinced that there are savings to be made by building your own from scratch though. A serious upgrade of an existing machine maybe, but there are some very, very cheap machines out there now, with an element of after sales support and no problems with conflicts or those other occasional, but time consuming problems that crop up if you roll your own.
Conan
Still not convinced that there are savings to be made by building your own from scratch though. A serious upgrade of an existing machine maybe, but there are some very, very cheap machines out there now, with an element of after sales support and no problems with conflicts or those other occasional, but time consuming problems that crop up if you roll your own.
Conan
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Cheaper to buy a complete machine than build one. If you want a multi-year warranty go to someone like Dell, Mesh etc.
Unless you are an extreme gamer, any machine with a CPU faster than about 1.6Gb is fine. 512Mb RAM is OK, 1Gb is all you need. You want a PCI graphics card, sweet point for price/performance at the moment is the NVidia 6600 or ATI X700 range. Get DVD burner, they only cost around 25 pounds these days.
Unless you are an extreme gamer, any machine with a CPU faster than about 1.6Gb is fine. 512Mb RAM is OK, 1Gb is all you need. You want a PCI graphics card, sweet point for price/performance at the moment is the NVidia 6600 or ATI X700 range. Get DVD burner, they only cost around 25 pounds these days.
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For the low to mid-range computer, it is almost always cheaper to buy a Dell. There is no way any single person could match the volume discounts they get. When you get into the high end though, things change, and it usually isn't too hard to build one cheaper than Dell or Alienware.
ORAC's suggestions look good to me, although I would try for a 3GHz (or AMD Athlon 64 3200) or faster processor and 1GB of RAM if you want to use FlightSim on it one day. Strategy games are getting more advanced graphically, so even they would benefit from something in the GeForce 6600GT range.
ORAC's suggestions look good to me, although I would try for a 3GHz (or AMD Athlon 64 3200) or faster processor and 1GB of RAM if you want to use FlightSim on it one day. Strategy games are getting more advanced graphically, so even they would benefit from something in the GeForce 6600GT range.
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Yeah you could certainly get a 32 bit Dell cheaper than building your own, though I doubt you could get an Opteron Dell for cheaper than a home build.
Enrolling on a night course (which you wouldn't necessarily have had to attend) Conan could have saved you quite a bit of money....
MSDNAA
Theres some serious software on there...
Enrolling on a night course (which you wouldn't necessarily have had to attend) Conan could have saved you quite a bit of money....
MSDNAA
Theres some serious software on there...
TheVillagePhotographer.co.uk
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I don't have nights Spin... I waste 'em all on Pprune, dancing girls and Macrami...
Seriously good suggestion there though and one I might well take up. Especially when the next Operating System comes out! :-)
Conan
Seriously good suggestion there though and one I might well take up. Especially when the next Operating System comes out! :-)
Conan
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Having recently bought a Dell 3000 Dimension for £300 with 2.8G processor, DVD reader, CD writer, 512Mb RAM, 80G HD & 17" TFT, I would say, go for something like that.
I have always built up my own systems for the past 20+ years, but this runs all the usual stuff nicely, including FS2002, Age of Empires, Age of Mythology (since you mentioned that type of game).
The on-board graphics, which I have never considered before, are up to the job.
It's not a machine for much expansion but if the spec suits your requirements it's pretty good value imo.
I have always built up my own systems for the past 20+ years, but this runs all the usual stuff nicely, including FS2002, Age of Empires, Age of Mythology (since you mentioned that type of game).
The on-board graphics, which I have never considered before, are up to the job.
It's not a machine for much expansion but if the spec suits your requirements it's pretty good value imo.
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High Flying Bird
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Thanks for all the replies... I should have known that if I asked a group of pilots I'd get lots of different answers!
Building my own PC isn't an option. It would take me too long (I don't have much spare time anyway), I wouldn't be confident about it and, if something went wrong, I'd have no-one to turn to for support. I have thought about it, and decided not to.
I get the impression that Dell are good for business users, but their customer support is somewhat lacking for personal buyers. However, Mesh seems to have a good reputation. How much 'fiddling' with spec' can you expect a company like this to do? i.e. if I wanted a model as advertised, but with a different screen and more memory, would they do that?
Thank you again!
Building my own PC isn't an option. It would take me too long (I don't have much spare time anyway), I wouldn't be confident about it and, if something went wrong, I'd have no-one to turn to for support. I have thought about it, and decided not to.
I get the impression that Dell are good for business users, but their customer support is somewhat lacking for personal buyers. However, Mesh seems to have a good reputation. How much 'fiddling' with spec' can you expect a company like this to do? i.e. if I wanted a model as advertised, but with a different screen and more memory, would they do that?
Thank you again!
TheVillagePhotographer.co.uk
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Aerbabe, Mesh were part of Evesham Computers I think and as such will be well aquainted with customising your PC. Tell them what you want and they shall upgrade accordingly.
A few people have allegedly, had a less than orgasmic time with Mesh, but the ones that I have used in the past have been solid, well constructed and bomb proof. (But I aso remember this with Dell) My own experience of Mesh has been a good one.
If you want us to look over any upgrades here, I am sure that the inmates will only be too happy to help spend your money.
Conan
A few people have allegedly, had a less than orgasmic time with Mesh, but the ones that I have used in the past have been solid, well constructed and bomb proof. (But I aso remember this with Dell) My own experience of Mesh has been a good one.
If you want us to look over any upgrades here, I am sure that the inmates will only be too happy to help spend your money.
Conan
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AerBabe, I have no previous experience with Mesh so can't comment on value, build quality, support etc.
But if you look at their website there is a "Build To Order" button on the grey bar that lets you choose a base machine then "fiddle with spec" to your heart's content!
RC
PS I'd agree with the advice above ref 17" screen minimum (unless space is a real issue?), 512Mb memory minimum, 80Gb hard drive just about Ok but 160Gb much better.
But if you look at their website there is a "Build To Order" button on the grey bar that lets you choose a base machine then "fiddle with spec" to your heart's content!
RC
PS I'd agree with the advice above ref 17" screen minimum (unless space is a real issue?), 512Mb memory minimum, 80Gb hard drive just about Ok but 160Gb much better.
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AerBabe, try looking at mcscom.co.uk.
They have some excellent deals and are very friendly if you give them a ring.
They can build to your spec at a very good price.
No I do not work for them, but I have used them for the last 2 years and have been very happy with the products.
They have some excellent deals and are very friendly if you give them a ring.
They can build to your spec at a very good price.
No I do not work for them, but I have used them for the last 2 years and have been very happy with the products.
I bought a £1200 Mesh PC one year ago and splurged on a £550 monitor. 2 weeks for delivery, customer service was fine, machine rock solid and I'm a happy customer. In the UK I'd use them or Evesham Micros or Scan. The competition is so tough and the machines so reliable that it doesn't really matter who you use. Dell are OK but its a bit like buying a Vauxhall.
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