Aerolineas Argentinas low level flyby on revenue flight
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Strikes me as pretty damned stupid and arrogant, approved or not, passengers or not - a little bit of turbulence off a hangar or a bird down an engine and you have no height or time to correct a resulting flight path variation. Airliners are too big and have too little agility/responsiveness to be doing that sort of flypast. A few hundred feet is one thing, but a few tens of feet is another - it looks clever, but anyone with a small amount of wit knows how stupid it is. It's the same as boy racers in their hot hatches and on their bikes.
What if you had an engine failure at V1 at max weight. Better to be at 280 knots and light. Maybe the rest of us are foolish. How little guaranteed terrain clearance is there in a second segment climb.
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I have no objection to people wanting to do fly-bys - some of them are quite fun - in Spitfires, F4's etc. flown by professional air display pilots, not some frustrated and bored old git wanting to have one last rather pathetic attempt at getting a boner on the way out the door.
My point in this concerns the poor bloody passengers in the back being taken on a ride like this totally against their will and expectations. While some might find a flyby, or whatever you want to call it, a fun story to tell later, other passengers are scared witless to start with on just a normal flight, and my objection is that they have no vote in the matter.
I have done plenty of things in appropriate planes that are fun to do and to witness from the ground, but on my own or with a student etc. - certainly no one in the back. I chose not to inflict this stuff on people who are utterly unprepared and unbriefed for such surprises, and are being held hostage to the Captain's fragile ego.
FWIW my airline quite rightly has very clear and predictable language in the FOM about "style of flying" etc.
My point in this concerns the poor bloody passengers in the back being taken on a ride like this totally against their will and expectations. While some might find a flyby, or whatever you want to call it, a fun story to tell later, other passengers are scared witless to start with on just a normal flight, and my objection is that they have no vote in the matter.
I have done plenty of things in appropriate planes that are fun to do and to witness from the ground, but on my own or with a student etc. - certainly no one in the back. I chose not to inflict this stuff on people who are utterly unprepared and unbriefed for such surprises, and are being held hostage to the Captain's fragile ego.
FWIW my airline quite rightly has very clear and predictable language in the FOM about "style of flying" etc.
Last edited by Oilhead; 23rd Nov 2013 at 00:39.
Long and lost forgotten are those nostalgic times when there was no Internet, no "PseudoFSwebkidsthatknowsabouteverythingflying" and bla bla bla, where aviation could be discussed without crucifying the pilots in the blink of an eye because of every action they've done and choose...could it be a normal go-around, a bumpy landing, a occasional surge/flame out, etc etc...now everyone behind a PC desk and a nickname can be a 747 Captain, a 380 instructor or even a Bush&Safari pilot with 3000 Moon Landings...yeap, this old ARG guy is surely another one waiting for the aviation web and foruns Gallows Pole...
BTW, great post Kengineer-130
BTW, great post Kengineer-130
Last edited by JanetFlight; 23rd Nov 2013 at 03:45.
Yes, it's harmless and great fun to some.
But I don't want to be in the back when some idiot decides he's an airshow pilot.
Not what I paid for and it's not what he's supposed to do, take me from A to B with no fuss in the safest manner possible.
As a professional Pilot myself the idea of 'showing off' in such a manner is abhorrent.
These people are idiots.
But I don't want to be in the back when some idiot decides he's an airshow pilot.
Not what I paid for and it's not what he's supposed to do, take me from A to B with no fuss in the safest manner possible.
As a professional Pilot myself the idea of 'showing off' in such a manner is abhorrent.
These people are idiots.
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Low pass with or without pax onboard shouldn't be allowed by any flight department. 
A firetruck shower on the ramp like Captain Sully should be enough for a retirement flight
A firetruck shower on the ramp like Captain Sully should be enough for a retirement flight
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are you out of you mind(s) ?
For starters all we see is a plane above a runway, where are the "facts" that there were indeed fare paying pax on board ?
If there were, how would you feel if your nearest and dearest were on board and you were watching this "death defying feat" ?
It's only death defying until the sky-god gets it wrong after all, and history as well as many airfields are littered with the DNA of suddenly undone egos.
So what's with all the yehaaaawing ? this kind of thing gets people killed, which is bad enough if is the show off and his overly compliant first officer, but seriously .. to risk 100+ lives ?
Sorry folks but it seems this forum is becoming overpopulated with flightsiimmers and redneck applaudees.
Yeeeeeehaw .. bang fire... your wife/children/loved one is gone in a big fireball.
Very clever.
If there were, how would you feel if your nearest and dearest were on board and you were watching this "death defying feat" ?
It's only death defying until the sky-god gets it wrong after all, and history as well as many airfields are littered with the DNA of suddenly undone egos.
So what's with all the yehaaaawing ? this kind of thing gets people killed, which is bad enough if is the show off and his overly compliant first officer, but seriously .. to risk 100+ lives ?
Sorry folks but it seems this forum is becoming overpopulated with flightsiimmers and redneck applaudees.
Yeeeeeehaw .. bang fire... your wife/children/loved one is gone in a big fireball.
Very clever.
It's a go arounf bud, calm yourself.
Could care less if my family got to experience a go around, at least from a safety perspective. If it made them late for a connection I might be a bit torqued but no concern about safety.
Could care less if my family got to experience a go around, at least from a safety perspective. If it made them late for a connection I might be a bit torqued but no concern about safety.
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All hail to your opinion.
Would you care to share more ?
Were there indeed passengers on board as alledged .. was this a non scheduled airport for the flight alleged ? you seen to know better than most ... so go ahead .... bird.
I just asked some questions :-)
Would you care to share more ?
Were there indeed passengers on board as alledged .. was this a non scheduled airport for the flight alleged ? you seen to know better than most ... so go ahead .... bird.
I just asked some questions :-)
Thread Starter
Just to clarify. It was not a "go-round", i.e. an aborted landing.
This was a revenue flight from Miami to Ezeiza on or about 17 November; the usual load is around 250 passengers. The captain was performing his last flight for Aerolineas Argentinas prior to retirement. Before landing at Ezeiza the aircraft made a low pass over the downtown Jorge Newberry runway. Passengers were informed prior to the low pass.
There was at least one reporter on board and the fly-by was widely commented in the Argentine press. One link below. There are references to last-flight low passes being "in keeping with tradition".
Se despidió con un vuelo rasante y un "viaje de película" - lanacion.com
This was a revenue flight from Miami to Ezeiza on or about 17 November; the usual load is around 250 passengers. The captain was performing his last flight for Aerolineas Argentinas prior to retirement. Before landing at Ezeiza the aircraft made a low pass over the downtown Jorge Newberry runway. Passengers were informed prior to the low pass.
There was at least one reporter on board and the fly-by was widely commented in the Argentine press. One link below. There are references to last-flight low passes being "in keeping with tradition".
Se despidió con un vuelo rasante y un "viaje de película" - lanacion.com
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Comparisons with Habsheim and whether it was or was not a go around miss the point which is that any unplanned activity introduces the first hole in the cheese. Habsheim was a planned activity that had its own set of holes in cheeses as adeptly pointed out by Dozywannabe above and is not a good example.
A better comparison would be Aeroflot 593: allowing two children on the flight deck (first hole), seating one at the controls (second hole), not noticing that they had inadvertently disabled a/p aileron authority (third hole) because there was no audible disconnect unlike Russian a/c (fourth hole) ... you get the point...
C'mon! it was only a fly by! C'mon! it was only a child visiting the cockpit!
Pinkman
A better comparison would be Aeroflot 593: allowing two children on the flight deck (first hole), seating one at the controls (second hole), not noticing that they had inadvertently disabled a/p aileron authority (third hole) because there was no audible disconnect unlike Russian a/c (fourth hole) ... you get the point...
C'mon! it was only a fly by! C'mon! it was only a child visiting the cockpit!
Pinkman
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A low pass...is a procedure that very few professional pilots are trained to do.
Sure, I'm confident to do one in a Cessna 172.
Sure, I'm pretty confident I can do one in an Airbus.
But flying an airliner is a highly proceduralized activity. What I am not comnfident about is to depart from my rigid procedures to improvise a low pass in a highly complex machine. I'm pretty sure I'll get it right, but that is not good enough.
But hey, maybe they practice low passes in the sim every six months in Argentina, what do I know!
Sure, I'm confident to do one in a Cessna 172.
Sure, I'm pretty confident I can do one in an Airbus.
But flying an airliner is a highly proceduralized activity. What I am not comnfident about is to depart from my rigid procedures to improvise a low pass in a highly complex machine. I'm pretty sure I'll get it right, but that is not good enough.
But hey, maybe they practice low passes in the sim every six months in Argentina, what do I know!
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Could have avoided all this debate by just doing the safe thing and landing prior to carrying out the safe take-off in strict adherence of SOP. Simple and as an added extra, no-one bats an eye at a large airplane landing at the wrong airport
AEP/SABE is only 131 ft/40 mts wide and 6890 ft/2100 mts long.
So, it wasn´t a go around because in the first place that airport is not suitable for an A340 operation.
The biggest airplane I have ever seen operating in AEP was an Airbus A310 due to wx below minimums at Ezeiza.
So, it wasn´t a go around because in the first place that airport is not suitable for an A340 operation.
The biggest airplane I have ever seen operating in AEP was an Airbus A310 due to wx below minimums at Ezeiza.