Mass exodus at TAM
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Mass exodus at TAM
People are leaving TAM in mass numbers. The total this year already surpasses the number of people who left last year and many more are handing in their resignations.
I wonder if management will do anything about it. And they are still talking about bypassing many F/Os.
I wonder if management will do anything about it. And they are still talking about bypassing many F/Os.
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Some to the sandpit but most seem to be going to Webjet, Azul Trip, GOL and flying private business jets.
Yes, TAM has a history of treating its employees bad and they take it to a whole new level.
Yes, TAM has a history of treating its employees bad and they take it to a whole new level.
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Here's something that should apply to TAM employees. I pasted it from an Etihad thread.
Even in a bad economy some Companies are just not worth it. Are there any telltale signs you should be looking for when trying to decide if you throw in the towel? Here are ten signs to look for to determine if it’s time to find a new company:
You Aren’t Learning Anything New
Yes, you want to know how to do most of your job. But there are also things you want to be learning; otherwise you are not growing professionally. If you have stopped learning at work, it’s time to find a job where you will learn new skills and grow professionally.
You Never Have a Day When You Wake Up Excited To Go To Work
If you wake up every morning Monday through Friday and never feel excited to go to work, that is a problem. It means you aren’t enjoying your job and it is diminishing your quality of life. If you wake up every day and dread going to work, it’s time to consider quitting your job.
You Spend More Time Surfing the Web Than Doing Your Job
When you are at work, you are supposed to be productive. Otherwise, it’s a waste of your time and the company’s money. If you are bored and surfing the web most of your work day, you may want to think about looking into job options where you’ll get more stimulation and responsibilities.
You Don’t Like Most of Your Coworkers
There are always one or two coworkers in the office that most people can’t stand. But if you don’t like most of your coworkers, chances are your days aren’t very enjoyable because you have to work with them day in and day out. If you can’t stand most of your coworkers, it’s time to think about finding a company whose employees you mesh with better.
You Aren’t Making Enough Money to Pay Your Bills
If you are working your butt off and not getting paid enough to pay your bills, you might be overqualified and underpaid for your position. Go find a job that pays what you deserve.
You Spend Time Looking For Other Jobs
If you are spending time looking for other jobs while you are on the clock, it’s obvious you want to leave your job. So keep looking for new jobs and as soon as you find a good one, take it and run.
You Haven’t Gotten a Raise in the Last Two Years
If you work hard and benefit the company you work for, you deserve to be rewarded for that. If your boss hasn’t given you a raise in the last two years, ask for one. If he or she says no, get out now.
Your Boss Sucks
Sometimes bosses suck. But if your boss sucks all the time and takes advantage of your time, it’s time to find a new job.
The Company Isn’t Doing Well
This sign varies from company to company. You must keep in mind that we are in a recession and if sales are down but the company isn’t in jeopardy, this sign may not apply to you. However, if business is down to the point where it looks like the company is going to go under, start looking for a new job NOW!
You are Stressed All the Time
You are supposed to enjoy life, not be stressed out all the time. If you spend most of your days stressed about everything that going on at work, you are not at the right job
Even in a bad economy some Companies are just not worth it. Are there any telltale signs you should be looking for when trying to decide if you throw in the towel? Here are ten signs to look for to determine if it’s time to find a new company:
You Aren’t Learning Anything New
Yes, you want to know how to do most of your job. But there are also things you want to be learning; otherwise you are not growing professionally. If you have stopped learning at work, it’s time to find a job where you will learn new skills and grow professionally.
You Never Have a Day When You Wake Up Excited To Go To Work
If you wake up every morning Monday through Friday and never feel excited to go to work, that is a problem. It means you aren’t enjoying your job and it is diminishing your quality of life. If you wake up every day and dread going to work, it’s time to consider quitting your job.
You Spend More Time Surfing the Web Than Doing Your Job
When you are at work, you are supposed to be productive. Otherwise, it’s a waste of your time and the company’s money. If you are bored and surfing the web most of your work day, you may want to think about looking into job options where you’ll get more stimulation and responsibilities.
You Don’t Like Most of Your Coworkers
There are always one or two coworkers in the office that most people can’t stand. But if you don’t like most of your coworkers, chances are your days aren’t very enjoyable because you have to work with them day in and day out. If you can’t stand most of your coworkers, it’s time to think about finding a company whose employees you mesh with better.
You Aren’t Making Enough Money to Pay Your Bills
If you are working your butt off and not getting paid enough to pay your bills, you might be overqualified and underpaid for your position. Go find a job that pays what you deserve.
You Spend Time Looking For Other Jobs
If you are spending time looking for other jobs while you are on the clock, it’s obvious you want to leave your job. So keep looking for new jobs and as soon as you find a good one, take it and run.
You Haven’t Gotten a Raise in the Last Two Years
If you work hard and benefit the company you work for, you deserve to be rewarded for that. If your boss hasn’t given you a raise in the last two years, ask for one. If he or she says no, get out now.
Your Boss Sucks
Sometimes bosses suck. But if your boss sucks all the time and takes advantage of your time, it’s time to find a new job.
The Company Isn’t Doing Well
This sign varies from company to company. You must keep in mind that we are in a recession and if sales are down but the company isn’t in jeopardy, this sign may not apply to you. However, if business is down to the point where it looks like the company is going to go under, start looking for a new job NOW!
You are Stressed All the Time
You are supposed to enjoy life, not be stressed out all the time. If you spend most of your days stressed about everything that going on at work, you are not at the right job
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Can someone actually flying for tam confirm this rumours, from what I heard they are recruiting a lot, switching company to web, azul, gol or trip, doesnt makes sense, and from what I can see, its not happening in large numbers. I heard many times tam would hire direct entries to widebody, but until now it hasnt happened neither to the 767 nor 330. Other rumour is that anac has interviened into their English Profeciency tests, doing audits and reproving many pilots to the point that captains who flew international were "downgraded" to domestic fleets.
Would love to hear coments from insiders!
Would love to hear coments from insiders!
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Yes people are leaving, yes they are trying to hire alot of people, yes they are talking about hiring straight to the 330, ANAC did intervene and there are about 60 widebody captains who are currently not flying because they didn't pass the English test. Only a few got downgraded to the a320 fleet but that was during the Barioni Era.
Switching to theses other airlines make sense when you have the time for command but you are number 900 on the list and you can go somewhere else and upgrade faster. Oh and yes I still work there.
Switching to theses other airlines make sense when you have the time for command but you are number 900 on the list and you can go somewhere else and upgrade faster. Oh and yes I still work there.
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Fellow
This is not true. I actually fly at TAM. Of course there are a lot of problems in the airline (if you research here in pprune, all airlines have problens, and they are almost the same).
In fact the bypass rumor is just a rumor. There is no "outside" aviator on GS for 67 or 30. In fact the aviation market in Brazil is expanding, so, there are a lot of opportunities. On friday, dollar was R$1,6. An A320 FO, with layovers make almost U$$7000 (free) plus vacation, FGTS, 13, and PPR (.65 ). What airline pays this for FO?
One of the major problen is that we have just one base, São Paulo. We have pilots that lives in Belem, Salvador, Recife, Palegre, etc. For those guys, in fact, the schedule is a piece of ****, but life is made of choices.
Best regards
This is not true. I actually fly at TAM. Of course there are a lot of problems in the airline (if you research here in pprune, all airlines have problens, and they are almost the same).
In fact the bypass rumor is just a rumor. There is no "outside" aviator on GS for 67 or 30. In fact the aviation market in Brazil is expanding, so, there are a lot of opportunities. On friday, dollar was R$1,6. An A320 FO, with layovers make almost U$$7000 (free) plus vacation, FGTS, 13, and PPR (.65 ). What airline pays this for FO?
One of the major problen is that we have just one base, São Paulo. We have pilots that lives in Belem, Salvador, Recife, Palegre, etc. For those guys, in fact, the schedule is a piece of ****, but life is made of choices.
Best regards
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Despite the longer time for upgrade, i think tam is still among the best choices for a job in Brazil, some may favour avianca or rio, wich for stated personal reasons might be true, and yes there are guys who quit for the others as well, but numbers. as for what i know are far from what i would call an mass exodus. I doubt the number reaches a percentage and no reason for the company to act desperately. I wish for the colleagues working there the company would improve the roster and shuttlers lifestyle as to set a higher standard for Brazilian aviators itself.
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Can someone actually flying for tam confirm this rumours...
Yes I´ve been flying for TAM for over 3,5 years now and can confirm that what Varigflyer posts is 100% accurate.
VF, what is your source for posting such B#*&%H? Come on let us know! From your screen name, I recommend yo see a therapist. Get over it and move on, Varig is history!
Dear DA7X,
Now the one posting B..sh...t is you! You´ve got to be kidding me, or you have relatives at some management position, or you´re part of it yourself! And for the record I recommend YOU see a therapist ASAP if you think TAM has anything to compare with the long gone VARIG. I´m not saying VARIG was the best outfit in the world to work for, but at least the way it treated it´s employees was way more moral and correct, not to speak of the safety aspects of flight ops! (the company´s first commandment states that NOTHING SUBSTITUTES PROFIT"
And I did fly for VARIG also, as I have for 3 other airlines in my career, including one in Scandinavia not so long ago. It´s because of "professionals" like you that our current T and C´s are way worse than those for sub-african third world country airlines!
This is not true. I actually fly at TAM.
Dear sec_fac_elac,
If you really fly for TAM...open your eyes! There´s a lot going on around you!
And you yourself said that life is made of choices...I agree with you 100%! That´s why I´m choosing to leave this cheap AirTaxi operator.
Safe flying!
Yes I´ve been flying for TAM for over 3,5 years now and can confirm that what Varigflyer posts is 100% accurate.
VF, what is your source for posting such B#*&%H? Come on let us know! From your screen name, I recommend yo see a therapist. Get over it and move on, Varig is history!
Dear DA7X,
Now the one posting B..sh...t is you! You´ve got to be kidding me, or you have relatives at some management position, or you´re part of it yourself! And for the record I recommend YOU see a therapist ASAP if you think TAM has anything to compare with the long gone VARIG. I´m not saying VARIG was the best outfit in the world to work for, but at least the way it treated it´s employees was way more moral and correct, not to speak of the safety aspects of flight ops! (the company´s first commandment states that NOTHING SUBSTITUTES PROFIT"
And I did fly for VARIG also, as I have for 3 other airlines in my career, including one in Scandinavia not so long ago. It´s because of "professionals" like you that our current T and C´s are way worse than those for sub-african third world country airlines!
This is not true. I actually fly at TAM.
Dear sec_fac_elac,
If you really fly for TAM...open your eyes! There´s a lot going on around you!
And you yourself said that life is made of choices...I agree with you 100%! That´s why I´m choosing to leave this cheap AirTaxi operator.
Safe flying!
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upspeed,
First of all, I haven't flown for an airline in Brazil since the mid 90's. Its funny how you read into my post to VF. Where do I defend the working conditions at TAM? Why do you assume I have relatives in management? What we are discussing here is "mass exodus", if you don't know the meaning of the phrase, look it up, google is your friend. From your post, sounds like you are just another sore ex-Varigiano, having to restart your career at a place that is so far from what you once enjoyed, and maybe you haven't gotten over your lost of seniority. Well, that's life my friend! I had to reinvent myself and my professional career many times in the last 35 years, like many here at this forum. Don't be sore, follow the advice I gave VF, get over it! If you are miserable where you are at, look for something better, remember the old saying, "the grass is always greener next door", there is always China and the Middle East to run to.
BTW, after 20 years of airline flying and now over 10 in corporate aviation, I can definitely say working for any airline in Brazil or most anywhre SUCKS big time, both financially and roster, but don't get me wrong, there are many many corporate jobs that are ten time worse, but not my!
First of all, I haven't flown for an airline in Brazil since the mid 90's. Its funny how you read into my post to VF. Where do I defend the working conditions at TAM? Why do you assume I have relatives in management? What we are discussing here is "mass exodus", if you don't know the meaning of the phrase, look it up, google is your friend. From your post, sounds like you are just another sore ex-Varigiano, having to restart your career at a place that is so far from what you once enjoyed, and maybe you haven't gotten over your lost of seniority. Well, that's life my friend! I had to reinvent myself and my professional career many times in the last 35 years, like many here at this forum. Don't be sore, follow the advice I gave VF, get over it! If you are miserable where you are at, look for something better, remember the old saying, "the grass is always greener next door", there is always China and the Middle East to run to.
BTW, after 20 years of airline flying and now over 10 in corporate aviation, I can definitely say working for any airline in Brazil or most anywhre SUCKS big time, both financially and roster, but don't get me wrong, there are many many corporate jobs that are ten time worse, but not my!
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Strong rumours
There's 99% sure TAM will hire straight to wide body fleet (including 777) FOs AND DECS, from a very important insider.
This due to a combination of factors like lack of English proficiency by a significant number of pilots (it's been embarrasing to listen to their spell from time to time, with situations dowright dangerous); expedite grow owing to LAN merge (actually a takeover); and costs: it saves at least 50K USD per pilot to recruit straight were they are needed (avoiding 3 transition courses plus time of unproductivity).
Singapore, Emirates, Qatar, Korean Air, Asiana, Turkish, JetAirways to name a few, discovered this long ago. At the end of the day MONEY TALKS.
Simple reality check.
In particular, Turkish NEVER had expat pilots, in more than 60 years. They are recruiting for ALL FLEETS: A320, 737NG, A330, A340 and B777. Both FOs and DECs. They have one of the strongest unions and the administration convinced them that this was the way to do. The relationship between locals and expats is very good and nobody ever talk about initiate an industrial action owing to the 'frustration'.
It's just a matter of time for TAM to follow this trend. With the luxury of not having to contract expats, but rather Brazilians, fully rated with excellent standards, flying abroad.
This due to a combination of factors like lack of English proficiency by a significant number of pilots (it's been embarrasing to listen to their spell from time to time, with situations dowright dangerous); expedite grow owing to LAN merge (actually a takeover); and costs: it saves at least 50K USD per pilot to recruit straight were they are needed (avoiding 3 transition courses plus time of unproductivity).
Singapore, Emirates, Qatar, Korean Air, Asiana, Turkish, JetAirways to name a few, discovered this long ago. At the end of the day MONEY TALKS.
Simple reality check.
In particular, Turkish NEVER had expat pilots, in more than 60 years. They are recruiting for ALL FLEETS: A320, 737NG, A330, A340 and B777. Both FOs and DECs. They have one of the strongest unions and the administration convinced them that this was the way to do. The relationship between locals and expats is very good and nobody ever talk about initiate an industrial action owing to the 'frustration'.
It's just a matter of time for TAM to follow this trend. With the luxury of not having to contract expats, but rather Brazilians, fully rated with excellent standards, flying abroad.
Last edited by fullforward; 11th Apr 2011 at 11:30.
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@sec_fac_elac
An A320 FO making USD 7k net? You gotta be kidding me. Stop smoking man.
If you say BRL instead I´ll agree.
BTW, direct entry FO to A330 or B777 would be brutal...
An A320 FO making USD 7k net? You gotta be kidding me. Stop smoking man.
If you say BRL instead I´ll agree.
BTW, direct entry FO to A330 or B777 would be brutal...
I too wanna believe that my salary is 7000 USD a month! show me the money!
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Guys, I'm not "tirando onda". Sorry, but as I said, all airlines have problens and for me, in Brazil, Tam is the best job (in my vision, sorry again). I'm in the company for 3 years and 4 months and near to go to T7 or 330 or 67. I know that I'll wait for at least 6 years to upgrade (captain position) and I have to deal with this situation. I have friends in China and ME and I feel that they are confortable, but not happy.
Again, if we calculate, U$$1 = R$1,6, and R$9000 (net) + R$2200 (layover), R$11200 = U$$7000 (I don't pay tamprev). Is that so sureal?
Best Regards
Again, if we calculate, U$$1 = R$1,6, and R$9000 (net) + R$2200 (layover), R$11200 = U$$7000 (I don't pay tamprev). Is that so sureal?
Best Regards
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PilotUk
PilotUk says:
Varigflier You are right !
The company is like any other airline but has a poor way of treating its own pilots . This culture came from the previous administration.
If you are still flying for TAM you know what I am talking about.
Cheers
Hello there JONAS MONGENOT (PilotUk). the last administration sacked you for falsifying your logbook hours and a/c ratings remember???, no wonder you didn't like them!!!
Varigflier You are right !
The company is like any other airline but has a poor way of treating its own pilots . This culture came from the previous administration.
If you are still flying for TAM you know what I am talking about.
Cheers
Hello there JONAS MONGENOT (PilotUk). the last administration sacked you for falsifying your logbook hours and a/c ratings remember???, no wonder you didn't like them!!!
Last edited by efis4; 11th Apr 2011 at 19:36.
