Pilot training school in BC
 

hello

i'm new here. :p

i'm planning to start my pilot training in BC in 2014.
i had done my research on all the pilot training schools for the entire BC.

i ended it up with the following 3 schools:

Coastal Pacific Aviation (abotsford) (price $56,000)
Pacific Flying Club (delta) (price $ 46,000 without tax)
Professional Flight Center (delta) (price 46,000 with tax and fuel surcharge)

these are the 3 best one i found with longer history, and looks like more professional than others.

Questions:
- are these the best school i had find in BC?
(i live in Richmond, so i want closer to my home if possible.)
- which one had the best price with best training and flight hours.
- do i missed any other best school in BC which not far from Richmond?

please help to advise.
thanks so much.

I also live in Richmond and operate out of Boundary Bay (though I did my training elsewhere), and would definitely recommend it as the training airport. It's reasonably busy so you'll get practice dealing with busy ATC, but not so crazy that there are long delays... most of the time.

Pacific Flying Club has very good reputation. Instructors are good from what I heard, and people generally have a good time there. Downside is they are one of the most expensive places at ZBB, which is strange considering they are non-profit. Airplanes are a little older, but well maintained from what I heard. I wouldn't worry about safety with their airplanes. Unfortunately I never flew with them so I can't tell you more than what I heard.

Professional Flight Center is also a big school, but I don't know much about it. I do know someone that's training there though, and he likes it. It's a commercial operation, so it will feel different from PFC (PFC actually feels like a club).

I currently fly with Sea Land Air, and I would recommend them as well. It's a much smaller place (only 5 airplanes), but I much prefer their airplanes over Cessnas. They operate a fleet of DA20s and 1 DA40. Very modern airplane, awesome view from the cockpit, and also pretty simple (except for the DA40, which is probably a little too complicated for PPL training). I only rent from them most of the time, but I've done some recurrency training and mountain flying training with them also, and the instructors are pretty good. For me it's mostly the airplanes, though. Really nice, modern, and well maintained airplanes for pretty low prices compared to other places (especially PFC).

BTW, most places at ZBB charge a "fuel surcharge" which usually comes to about 25% of rental price. I believe that's a dishonest practice. Why "fuel surcharge" if fuel is included in rental? why not just increase rental rate? But that's just the way things are here.

Sea Land Air is the only place I know that doesn't charge fuel surcharge, so be sure to add 25% to other places' rental prices to compare. I'm not sure if their quoted numbers include fuel surcharge, which is definitely significant.

The Victoria Flying Club has been training pilots for over 60 years. It has just updated its fleet of aircraft to 172 SP models and its rates (all in) are significantly lower than the Vancouver schools.

The number of flyable days is also considerably higher in Victoria as compared to Vancouver, especially in the winter.

hi Matthew
thanks so much for your reply.
the most expensive is the Coastal Pacific Aviation over PRO and PFC.
thanks for the info for the PFC, i hasn't been there, so i really don't know it really like a flying club instead of a school. actually when i narrow down to this 3 schools, i had already take off many recreational like school.
and the reply i got from PFC is not very good too, hard to get reply or more complete information over the emails.
actually PRO give the best price, their price is already tax and fuel surcharge.
i think i will go for PRO. i will come back in CNY, then i will check the schools in person before my final confirm.
i will check the price and course info in the SEA LAND AIR. i think i had check before, but due to the fleet size too small, i take it out of my list.
the fuel surcharge is very bad, it does the same for all air tickets for so many years. :(

are you a airline pilot now? do you mind to share how you did it and how long it takes you to get a decent income after school?

hello
thanks for your reply.
yes i know, i had check Victoria Flying Club.
i want to stay in Richmond with my parents, so i will to stay with nearest schools :)

Definitely visit the schools, talk to the instructors and the students. You can also ask to see the airplanes (I did that before choosing a place to rent from), but if you haven't flown much, you may not know what to look for and what's normal.

Many people actually prefer the "club" feel of PFC. Instructors seem to actually care more about students, etc, and there's a more friendly atmosphere and more interactions between students. I would have picked PFC probably if not because of the price. Being more "club-like" also doesn't mean they are not professional. They have an agreement with BCIT and train all the BCIT pilots. Training quality is definitely not any lower just because they are a club.

Sea Land Air has a small fleet and scheduling does become problematic in the summer (busy times), especially if a plane or 2 are in maintenance. That said, I find that I can usually get anything I want if I book 2 weeks in advance. That's something you wouldn't need to worry about with a school with bigger fleets.

SLA is more commercial and business-like, which I don't like, but that's personal preference. Their airplanes are very nice, though. The Diamond DA-20 (their standard training airplane) is much nicer than Cessna 152s in just about every way - better visibility, slightly faster, awesome climb rate, extremely high glide ratio in case of engine failure, very benign stall/spin characteristics, and are much newer (nicer interior, etc, doesn't matter too much for training, but passengers really like it). And it's about the same price as 20 years older C152s (last C152 was produced in 1985, so the newest C152s are 28 years old now).

For me, I'm willing to have to book 2 weeks in advance for the nicer airplanes, but if your priority is to get the licenses as fast as possible, PFC or PRO are probably better.

I am not an airline pilot. Just a private pilot flying friends and family around on weekends for fun. My day job is something totally unrelated to aviation (electronics engineering).

hi Matthew
ic, but the door man in PFC doesn't willing to answer me clearly and clarify all the dull in their quotation. but instead, she only ask me to go down to ask the instructor directly. :(
how i can go down now??? i still in HK, i had told the lady at the very beginning already. :( i need to narrow it down before my arrive in cny. so i don't need to waste time to check every school. :(

i will go all CPA, PRO and PFC in cny. let see.
my current job is also completely no relate to aviation. :p
i just want to move on with something that is more interesting for me to work for.

There's only so much that can be said over the phone/email. Before starting training it is definitely required to go talk to an instructor face to face anyways.

Talking to the flight schools in person won't be wasting time. It will only take an hour or 2, and if your goal is to get an ATPL, you'll be spending many thousand hours at the airport. Those 1 or 2 hours will probably be the best spent hours of the thousands of hours.

schools at zbb
 

There is also another school at the east hangar called international flight centre, they have only one or two C 172 but are very dedicated to get their pilots up and running for the big Asian airlines at 300 hours but you need to be HK or Chinese citizen otherwise it is 1000 hrs

blue bird flight academy, chilliwack
 

hey budyy
i am also planning to join for cpl. i have already enrolled in blue bird flight academy, chilliwack airport.Though i should discuss about this one with you. have you heard about this school. I am a indian student and there training is in accordance with my country so that's why i am preffering it.
thanks!

Never heard of Blue Bird, but if you Google you'll see it has a pretty bad reputation AVCANADA ? View topic - Bluebird Flight Academy

There are also 2-3 "good" blog reviews you can find that are very clearly fake (look at the comments).

I would proceed with caution, but if you paid already, I guess you don't have much choice.

I don't want to say more since I don't have personal experience with the school.

Unfortunately I don't know any other school at Chilliwack. I have flown there a few times, though, and it's a nice airport. Definitely not as busy as Vancouver.

Actually, you can see all aviation incidents (called CADORS) filed with Blue Bird's aircrafts here - CADORS: Summary Results

That is A LOT of incidents.

I only looked through the few and there were quite a few serious ones - electrical problems, smoke in cockpit, engine failure, crash landing (collapsed landing gear and prop strikes), radio failure. Looks like they have maintenance problems.

There were also a few takeoffs without clearance, flying through airspace without clearance (with an instructor on board, too), ignoring ATC requests, and other regulatory things.

I would definitely watch out.

I fly to YCW often and blue bird always causes problems there. Taxing onto the runway when someone's on short final, not looking for traffic on taxiways and runways, entering Class C in abbotsford with no clearance at all, improper if any at all radio usage.

That place scares me.

Pilot training school in BC
 

I would not recommend blue bird. Be careful with what you choose. I have done a lot of research on blue bird and it wasn't positive in any area at all.

Yes, i understand, i will go for sure.
i specially like the PRO, i think they gave me the correct information i needed in the 1st place, and also with the best price to compare to the other two school.

thanks so much for your info.
i had check on this school before, but i think it is just a small flight school, and small name, so i just don't bother to go further.
i will ask them the total package price info. :)
i saw they had some news in their website in Chinese.

i'm Chinese and with HKID. I'm coming back from Hk soon.
it is a great school if they can refer me job in the future.

it is better to go a more sizeable school than a small one. i guess it teaches better.

What makes you think that?

There are big schools that are good, big schools that are terrible, small schools that are good, and small schools that are terrible.

I wouldn't worry about school size at all, as long as it's not so small that you have trouble getting airplanes.

Again, visit all the schools and talk to all the instructors before making a decision. Size doesn't mean anything.

i know, but normally. larger school is better.
but it still need to investigate in person for sure.
i have check that "international flight centre", i guess that's a joke.
the head instruction told me the price is about $65,000, still not firm.
and i had check thier news, damn, looks like full of advertisement. i don't like it.
:(

sorry, i have to tell you i have contacted Sea land air.
the guys, Dominic and Jin, both stubborn.
i only ask for the final total price for the whole professional pilot program with ppl, cpl, multi engine, multi ifr, etc....
they said they can't give me the exact price. :(
i did make a few emails to them to explain, but they insist they can't give exact price.
i know final price is depend on how long i can get the license, but at least they give me the minimal cost. :(

That's because they are being honest. You'll find that most honest schools will NOT give you a price, because it varies so much. They can pull a number out of thin air ("minimum hours"), but that doesn't mean anything.

For example, the Transport Canada minimum for PPL is 45 hours, but unless you already have a lot of prior flying experience (eg. gliders), it's impossible to get the license in anywhere near that. 50-60 hours seems to be average, and many people go to 70-80 hours.

The minimum prices are actually all online (click the links under "Pilot Training") but that just gives you a meaningless and totally unrealistic number.

I know you want an exact price for budgeting, etc, everyone does. But the truth is there is just no way of predicting that. Flying is not like most things. For most things, like university, you go for 4 years, pay all the tuition fees, and get a degree in the end if you don't fail courses. Everyone pays more or less the same.

For flying, they won't give you licenses until you are at a very well defined skill level, and different people take very different amounts of time and money to get to that level, for many reasons. By far the biggest reason is instructor quality. If you have a good instructor that can bring you up to flight test standards in 50 hours, that will be much cheaper than a bad instructor that takes 80 hours. But obviously they can't guarantee those numbers either. So if you want to save money, talk to the instructors, and find one that you feel will teach well. Instructors are all very different with very different teaching styles.

I haven't talked to Jin much, but Dominic is a trustworthy and honest person (a pilot from the UK). He is very open with communication (we talk about aircraft maintenance issues all the time, which many places don't talk about with customers), but he won't give you information that he isn't sure of, and definitely won't make things up. Unfortunately for flying, giving you an "estimated price" would be making something up.

I agree with matthewlai's comments. I'm taking the PPL one and I think the only thing someone can give you a firm price on is ground school lectures and books. Like university: once you paid the tuition then it is up to you how many hours you want to study --- it will still cost you the same.


Flight training is unlike university courses in that you have to rent the airplane hourly to learn and pay for instructor time. If you have any difficulty at any lesson then you will have to rent the plane for more lessons until you are proficient.


Keep in mind too that if you are disappointed with the school you chose then you can change schools too. Funny story: In the place I'm training at right now there was some students who did not want to do flight training there because they disliked the instructors so they went to another school. A few days later while getting ready for a flight I saw some other students enrolling in my school because they didn't like the instruction from the school they were going to :)


The other thing you should look for in the school is availability. If you want to get all that stuff done in one year then it may not be wise to go to a busy school where you can only fly once per week.

Sometimes reading these forums makes me fear that soon flight training will be dumbed down to the point that no amount of hours of training will produce pilots who can fly.

When I see such shocking statements as the above I can not believe we have come to this sad state of affairs in the training industry.

However it has happened and with acceptance of incompetent instruction it will only get worse with time until flying training will be as common as the horse and buggy.

Forty five hours of proper training is quite sufficient for the average student pilot if the instructor is competent.

When I learned to fly the minimum total time for the PPL was thirty hours and many of us passed our tests in that time frame.....and we did it flying tail wheel airplanes.

I am considering going back into the training business again and starting a new concept for flight training to better prepare young pilots for the commercial aviation world.

The training will be offered to pilots that are building time between their PPL and the start of the dual training for the CPL.

I am in the last stages of finishing building a PA11 homebuilt airplane for the dual portion of the flight training.

The flight training will be designed around a concept called " High command control " which is a program that teaches safe handling of the airplane at the outer edges of the flight envelope of the airplane.

Once the student is completely competent in flying the airplane within all the safe limits of the flight envelope, especially in the approach and landing phase's of flight they will then have the opportunity of time building in a single place airplane that will be about two thirds the cost of renting of a Cessna 150

Here is my choice of a time builder.

Home

I need something to do anyhow as I am bored with retirement. :ok:

i fully understand what u mean, but what i see in their quotation base on license by license, there are a extra hours that can be make up from other license.
do you know what i mean?
i understand final cost is very depend, but at least, the 1st concept of giving the right price for me when i confirm that i will do all the license at the same school at one time.

if they give me the price like this, do i really stupid to fly extra hours to make up each license require??

again, i do understand final cost is depend on how fast i can get it done. i don't mine to pay the extra at the end. but i just want to make sure, i don't double my hours/money, as i can save it.

so when i compare cost, i compare all at the basic stage.

thanks so much for your info, i will check that when i get down to the flight school later.

i don't mind to pay extra for extra flight hours, i just want to compare the price all at the same level.

i understand extra fly mean extra cost.

do you mind to tell which school are you in?

ACTIVE AEROSPACE / AAT GLOBAL
 

Good Day to all!

I'm new to this Forum stuff, so please forgive the SNAFU's!!

I am an A330 driver for Qatar Airways and I am looking to come back to Canada...Tired of the sand box!!!:bored:
I am interested in getting a CCQ on the A320.:rolleyes:

Looking to get information regarding the following school / Aviation Training Center called: ACTIVE AEROSPACE / AAT Global. They're located at Vancouver International (YVR).

They specialize in Type Ratings & CCQ's for those that want to get that special Type rating on their Canadian / Foreign License...

I've seen the website, but is appears not to have been updated in years !!!:bored:

Does anyone know if this training center is still in operation of has it closed down??:confused::confused:
If still in operation and if anyone has had any dealings with them, I would welcome any feedback. :ok:

Thank you for any info you may provide!!

Blue sky's to All!!!

Active Aerospace / AAT Global / AAT Training
 

Hi justagigolo77,

Yes I want to come back to Canada for a little while, to get some rest and spend time with my wife and daughter who were not in Qatar with me...
And no, I know there is no work in Canada on the A320 other than Air Canada...


Qatar Airways is not the easiest place to work and get upgraded...Politics and mafia connections!!!!


What I'm trying to do is; renew my Canadian ATPL and get myself a CCQ as Captain on the A320, I'm working out details for another commuting contract on the A320 as Direst Entry Captain...in another part of the world. So while searching the net for training facilities in Canada, I found on the web "Active Aerospace / AAT Global and now AAT Training"!! (all the same place)
I emailed 3 different addresses, I called the number (was a fax), I left messages...But to no avail!!!
AAT Training offers a very quick and convenient training package and cheaper than CAE and has no need for TSA background check which take a minimum of 45 days for approval...My new contract starts in April or May...So can't afford to wait.


I hope this clarifies a few of your questions?

Thank you!

I'm sorry, but if you have time flown on an A330, and you had enough experience to fly for Qatar, then why do you want to go out and pay for an A320 type rating?

Why do you not just go and apply for Air Canada, if you really do have a valid A330 type rating and time on a wide body jet, then you would probably stand out. From what I have read, it is very frowned upon to pay for type ratings in Canada. Then you won't make anyone mad, and won't have to pay for a type rating.

Little confused here.

Or do you want to come to Canada to take a break, and get a type rating in Canada, to go use in another country so you can fly left seat?

Gigolo and RT787, read what Slats Flaps has written! He's not looking for a job with Air Canada, he's looking for a specific training course to get a specific qualification: CCQ on A320. People with the ability to make 6 figures don't suddenly decide to make 45k a year instead, even if they have to spend a bit to get a qual.

Slats Flaps, I haven't heard anything on AAT recently, which doesn't mean much. If their website is out of date, and their phone number is no longer valid, then I would think there isn't much point trying to hunt them down though. It's pretty obvious they are no longer in business.

Hello Ahramin and RT787,


Thank you both for your reply and comments!


RT787, I appreciate your concern regarding what others may say about me paying for additional qualifications and perhaps be frowned at...But these people don’t feed my family!
Oh BTW, Air Canada couldn’t care less what experience I have on the A330. You still start on the bottom of the list as a Cruise Pilot B777 or F/O on E190…
FYI: I have never paid for any of my 6 type ratings while in Canada.
But I no longer work in Canada...The world is a very different place compared to our lovely, safe, clean and fare country of ours. Don’t forget the taxes!!


"No type rating? No job"!!!! it's that simple and if you’re an F/O, no matter how many hours experience you might have, extremely rare are those companies that might upgrade you...it’s unfortunate, because there are many pilots out there that have a great deal of experience who occupy the right seat...You do what you need to do to survive regardless if you're in Aviation or not!
Wish you all the best, I hope you will not frown down at me should we one day share a flight deck together, the world is a very small place, you never know who your flight deck partner might or will be!!!





Ahramin, Thank you for understanding what I wrote!
And thank you for your input regarding AAT Global / Active Aerospace!
I was able to secure a training slot with CAE in YYZ!


Thank you all for taking the time to share your comments and information with me.


Blue sky's, safe and smooth flights to all!!





Cheers!

No worries at all, I didn't mean any bad feelings or anything. I realize you start out at the bottom of the list no matter what experience you have at AC due to seniority, and making $40k a year.

I just misunderstood your intentions thats all,I thought you wanted to get into AC, and I was confused. I guess you want to go overseas with the A320 type?

Hey "Justagigolo77"

Thanks for the info.
I have done the TSA check back in 2003 when I was a TRI/TRE on the Saab340 and was instructing as Chief Pilot Training, and it used to take much longer back then...I guess things have improved somewhat since!:D

I finally found out that I won't need to go through the TSA background check because I'm getting my training with CAE Canada in Toronto and it's for my Canadian ATPL and will not be training in the USA.:=

So for those that are thinking of getting an additional Type ratting or Type endorsement on their Canadian ATPL, think of Canadian training first before going south to our friends in the US for cheaper training...It just might safe you a few $$ and administrative headache!!:ugh:
And let's face it, the Canadian license is so much better for expatiates working abroad vs the FAA license and nicer in Blue, don"t you think?? :E
Cheers!!

Hey anyone has any experience with Pro recently?

I heard good things about it, but I just find them doing things so differently from other schools....$500 deposit, $75 registration fees, restrictions to access your own records......other schools do none of these.

How are their intakes of students via Douglas College recently? Would it make bookings hard like Pacific?