Ahhhh...
 

Hello?

Yes, there are other Canadians out here.

Doesn't seem to be to many on this forum, though...

A very quiet forum. All eyes are on the AC/AA, I mean CP merger.

Finally..proud Canadian aviators in this forum!

So what's the lastest in the Onex deal?

It's a very quiet forum because typically as Canadians we don't have anything to say, or can't voice our opinions loudly enough.

We bend over and take anything dished out to us!

------------------
Life's Short...Fly Fast!

I guess I can't fly too fast right now with those floats attached!

So where do you fly out of, Bush Driver?

I am going to be graduating from Selkirk College this year. Anyone know of any small operators looking for low time pilots with commercial and group 1 instrument rating?

best bet is to do the road trip and talk to people..don't expect a job to be given to you..you have to earn it! All of us have gone thru it..so who knows..you might fly immediately, others have to work on the ramp/dock before they fly. Perhaps get a float rating also

Good Luck

Armstrong ON

Low and Slow with those floats on. and all the externals!

What about you Positive?

This summer was 20NM of Little Grand MB for a fishing camp..first flying job..pretty fun!
I only got ladders as externals..I wonder what's next?
Maybe you've heard on the radio, was flying a 185 "YXY"

You must work for Huron then.

Sorry haven't heard you on radio. I know Huron but do not work for them.

As for externals-if you can think of it, it might be an external;lumber, plywood, boats, fridges, 4 wheelers, water tanks, fuel tanks etc.

Have fun it's certainly a learning experience.

------------------
Life's Short...Fly Fast!

A *fridge*? How exactly do you secure a refrigerator? And once you have it lashed on, how do you do the W&B? Or do you just look at the way the floats sit in the water?

Did any of you have to work on the ramp/dock before getting in the air? If so for how long?

Well Rookie,

My first flying job stems from doing the road trip like everyone told me. I did the road trip in April which is somewhat early in NWOntario and thru MB. There will be operators who will talk to you and others will tell you to get lost. Don't get discouraged, be positive about the experience.

If you got offered to work on the dock, do it..don't complain, don't bitch..just work hard and try your best and you will gear up to fly the next season.

I am very lucky to have a job this summer and indeed a lot of fun. I suggest go to places where the only means of transportation is by air. Try the different Native reserves if you can handle it.

The market in BC and AB is swamped for pilots. All my buddies are in Calgary looking for work. I think out east is where it's at right now. Or maybe even up north. But it's not easy from what I've heard.Out of last years graduating class of 12, only 2 have jobs, but both are on the King Air 200 and 1900. The rest are either in Calgary or doing the instructor rating.

Rookie, I'm back in BC now and it is an extremely tough market to get into. AB is tough too unless you have high hours.

Instructing is fine but other companies detest that since they don't consider it to be "hands on" experience. But I think it's ok..however I still prefer float flying to build PIC time..it's certainly better way.

Don't feel you need to "fly" a turboprop right away. Guys getting on with CMA with 200 hours will babysit there for the next 4 or 5 years before they have command. You need your PIC time for insurance.

If I were you, suggest a float rating and get geared up for next spring. You will have fun and at the same time, like BushDriver said, learn! Build up those valuable PIC hours and then look for a twin PIC job.

Your road trip will be one of the hardest things to do but it's sure is worth it!!

Does anyone know how those float hours are viewed a few years down the road when you're trying to get a job on something bigger, with wheels? Are they treated at a discount or do they count as much as if you had done the same bush flying on wheels?

I have always wanted to get my float rating and get into the bush, but it is all single engine day. But I guess with 250 hours you really can't expect a lot of multi-IFR time. It would be nice to get all the PIC time though. But getting my float endorsment is an expense I am not sure I will be able to afford!

Talking to other older bush pilots, they do count as something very valuable. Those who are in the industry will respect the bush time you have since they know the nature of flying we do. So when you have all the PIC time, it would be attractive indeed and upgrading to a twin captain would certainly be faster.

hey Rookie, there's not the time for you to pick what you want to fly. So what if it is all SINGLE engine day flying? Remember..you gotta have fun with your flying job too, right? You would be lucky if you were given a job flying a Piper Cub!! The point is, take what is given to you for now and worry about flying the big planes later! Like 1 guy told me, if you love flying that much, you would go anywhere and fly anything! If you have the attitude of "I want my multi time....boy..you are in for a rude awakening bud!" Come up to the bush and try it for yourself...you won't regret it. I wasn't sure about flying floats either but I gave it a try and I love it. The friends I know who are flying turboprops now miss the scudruns!

Don't get me wrong, I have always been interested in bush flying. It has a romantic quality to it. I completely agree with you though, I would be happy flying anything. But I would be lying if I said I didn't want to fly the big ones. But bush flying is definately exciting, more so than driving a 747 across the pond. And I'm sure the people involved with bush flying have some great personalities! Flying isn't totally about money for me, it is something I been in love with since I was 8. As long as I'm in the air, I'm happy!

Rookie, that's good!! The attitude is there!
So give it some thought..I think you'll love it up here for the time being!

Good luck in your venture

Luftwaffle

I take it that you are a little new in the bush.
The way the floats sit in the water IS the W&B.
PIC is PIC. The time that you get on the singles, floats, skies, or wheels is a good start and in the long run it will
help you with your command skills. But, the minute you can get some twin time take it.
Good Luck!

rookie

Bush flying is back breaking work, and you will very often find bad operators in the north.
There seems to be very little regard for rules up there. It seems that it is too far for MOT to venture for
enforcement. The rewarding thing is, that you fly into some of the most beautiful places on
earth and you are really flying ( unlike modern aircraft that are operated like buses ).
Do your time and get out as quick as you can.
If any of the POMs happen to look in on this thread they might think that it is funny to see
a person with a few hundred hrs looking at flying singles up north.
They complain when they, at 500 hrs, are not in the right seat of a 737.
Enjoy what you are doing now but keep your eye on the next step.
Companies like QK and ON are taking people with 1500 hrs.
Good Luck!

up north is sure is "unsafe" since you can get away with a lot of things but there's that fine line between yourself and your boss whether to push it or not. I think sometimes you have the right to push his button a bit.
Bush flying is certainly not for the weak..both mentally and physically. I am just glad I got through my first season!!
I look at bush flying as a stepping stone onto something better in the future plus you will bring your hard earned decision making skills, hours, into a twin or turbine job. But for now, enjoy the scenery and have a godo time at it!

As for are the hours valuable-yes there is no discounting because you fly on water, if anything they are more valuable because many people in the bigger companies understand what it took to get those hours-(read other non-flying chores)-and the conditions you fly in, poor wx, strange loads etc, the decisions are all yours out here and if your still around to be looking for work on a turboprop without an accident history, then you must have done something right.

As for dangerous flying, most operators honour your decision to say no-go without question. More to the point in my experience there is no real pressure to fly when the weather is down, but perceived pressure. The young pilot wishes not to be looked upon unfavourably, and therefore pushes him/herself beyond their own predetermined limits without a word from the operator.

------------------
Life's Short...Fly Fast!

Due South, I'm even less than new. Closest I've been to bush flying is when grass grows through the cracks on the apron. I've never been in a float plane when it wasn't tied to a dock -- in the downtown harbour.

Next time I have a spare $2500, I'm going to remedy that situation, though. Thanks to all for the helpful discussion.

I always hear about the "pressures" that pilots face to go when the weather is marginal at best, or when the airplane is carrying a few too many people or other things. I am glad to hear that most operators respect the go/no-go decisions that we have to make in those cases. I agree though, and its like what you are told in PDM, the greatest pressures on whether or not to fly come from yourself. Bush flying is definately a whole different type of flying. But I can imagine it is probably some of the most enjoyable, and rewarding flying.

Rookie:

I'll tell you the same as I told "Positive Rate" when he was looking for work... stay out of the big centers. check out the places that wouldn't normally appeal to someone who's never left Calgary. Get your hands dirty for a couple of years, and get out if you want... or stay. I've been in the bush since '95 and I'm now in no hurry to get out, since moving to YYC would cost me over 1000 bucks a month just to live, and the pay would be just to cover that and a case of KD.

BTW, Positive rate, do you have anything lined up for after freeze-up?

Cheers

My 2 cents:
A long time ago I was a Twin Otter copilot in Labrador and an opening came up in the left seat of our Queenair. I had 1500TT with about 900 copilot on the Twin Otter and Queenair and around around 350 instructing on Cherokees. My competition had about 2200TT, all right seat on the same plus Cansos. He also had more time flying in Labrador than me. The chief pilot was a wise old Mosquito driver from WW2 and it was his decision. We were both surprised when he gave me the nod. As far as he was concerned command time was paramount, even if it was on Cherokees.
I guess the message is (my opinion) get the command time above all. Far better to have 1000 hrs on Beavers/Cessnas than a bunch of right seat turbine time only. That'll come.
On the less practical side, your best memories will be of flying in the bush. I've been with the majors for 18 yrs now and very enjoyable it is. But flogging around the bush in Labrador is the part I remember best.

Best of luck

Mulligan-I agree with your statements but obviously time has sweetened your memories of all the "other" non-flying work.

Remember kids it's not all romantic stories. You'll earn your pay!

------------------
Life's Short...Fly Fast!

A lot of the guys around the airport here fully expect to get a job right seat on a turbine or Navajo type airplane. I think their expectations are a little hight, and I tend to agree with what a lot of you have said. PIC time, even in a 185 or 206 on floats, is still PIC time, and can be looked upon with more regard than a job babysitting on a King Air. I am not really sure if I want to spend 1200 hours riding shotgun before I can get a command job. That time on floats is going to make getting the hours for a right seat on something bigger a lot more enjoyable!

Hey Wolfman,

I got something lined up for next spring up at Little Grand flying 185 and crossing my fingers the Beaver. So far, I've told them I want to fly for them unless something better shows up. What do you think? Apparently the fishing camp I worked this summer will be looking for a pilot next spring I heard.

Where are you now?

Hey Wolfman..Sorry..forgot to tell you the road trip last spring was damn interesting and an eye opener..especially Osnaburgh House with those dogs which I almost hit a few!


As for others, keep up the good and encouraging posts!!

Let's try to help each other if we can.

How many years do you guys expect to be flying in the bush before you would have enough time to be competitive for an Air Canada f/o position? (assuming you want one) I'm trying to plan out my life here and see if I can afford to take out a loan to finish my commercial license. I understand that the pay for float operators doesn't leave much extra cash and I don't want to bankrupt myself. If its going to be a long term job, I'd better get ground work here in BC for a year and pay for my license / 100 hrs on floats myself.

I'm 24 now, and just finishing university. Will I be flying jets before I'm 30?

thx
SpiralDive

Spiral- Finishing that degree should be your priority but at the same time start filling up the log book with any, repeat, any kind of hours! There are so many retirements coming up for the airlines within the next 10 years that if you can get in soon you'll do very well. It's a great job!!