For the record, WJ does not post the names of those that apply. Confidetiality rules apply which would make this illegal. In the four years I have been at WJ I have never seen such a thing since the only poeple that have access to this are those on the hiring comittee.

Thanks for clearing up the rumour I (and many others) have heard for so long. Perhaps it may have been done in the beginning when the company was young, and a tighter knit circle?

Either way...thanks for the reply. :ok:

Clearly, you have no experience working with physicians, or real estate agents. :p

Not going to happen.

Yes indeed.

Where else do you find an industry that has such a vast oversupply of would-be employees (perhaps this is because in any flying job, one gets paid to play)?

Wooohooo! :D

I am Birddog,

How do you feel about Southwest Airlines?

To even be CONSIDERED for a position there, you have to go out, and pay for your own 737 endorsement.

And you don't get that paid back.

There are many, many more companies like JG in Canada that make people go out and get a loan to pay for their training. Wasaya and Thunder are 2 examples that come to mind.

Rookie.
aka Disco Stu

"Beech 1900 guys flying A-310's or 757's real soon. Over an Ocean no less. Scary!"

Must be a few new guys to life as a pilot in Canada on this forum. Its easy not to know how other airlines were when they started when some of these posters obviously weren't around when the did, or forgot how it was. I remember when Westjet started, I was an FO on the B727 for greyhound when I saw the old clapped out B737-200 Westjet called an airplane (looked older then the piece we were on).

Then as they progressed with rapide expansion they hired alot of turboprop guys, I know quite a few personally that found their way into the left seat of these questionable aircraft, as Westjet loses their OC do to Maintanence issues for 3 weeks in the summer of 96. We too said that we would never put our family on that airline.

Sure Jetsgo has hired a few 1900 drivers and have since upgraded them to captain, name one airline who hasn't. Westjet, skyservice, air transat, flightcraft, they all have at one point or another. Right now at Jetsgo the core guys and stil the majority is ex-royal 310, b757, b737, being joined with guys from Air canada, Jazz, Air Transat, Cathay Pacific, RCAF, ACE, Kelowna Flightcraft, and a few others.

Overseas, transatlantic, sure not a problem been there done that, easiest flying ever.

Good points, and I have been there done that. One mistake. Please remember that Westjet did not loose their OC but stopped operating by their own accord until Transport issues had been worked out.
Although every airline has to start somewhere, I think Jet'sGo pushes it in many ways considering this is Leblanc's 4th airline he should no better, and probably does. Having worked for him both at Royal and SG(shortly) it is clear that $$$ is taking precedent over safety once again. Buddies at Transport look the other way as aircraft arrive on fumes and flame out, and no one ever hears of the an elevator jamming on landing.
There will always be small things that are let go or you look the other way but once you are established it should end, not repeat itself continually over 20 yrs.
On top of this when it does shut and it will, once again how many people will be owed pay cheques, endorsement money and ticket refunds. The same guy keeps doing the samr thing and no one seems to catch on, they all by the BS.

"Transport look the other way as aircraft arrive on fumes and flame out, and no one ever hears of the an elevator jamming on landing."

Surely your kidding I work at jetsgo and this has never happened, not even once. We have very strict rule on min div fuel and will go to our alt. if we approach on this safety margin. I can honestly say that I have not had any kind of emergency (knock on wood) in 2 years at jetsgo. Closest thing to an emergency at jetsgo was one of our planes had an engine crapping out comming from the caribbean a few months back (still knocking).

jammed Stab? super stall? running out of gas on taxi? really we must have some really good friends at TC. for that matter at the radio stations, newspapers, TV stations as well. Not to mention our crack legal attorneys with all the lawsuits. ... Haven't heard about this in the news because it NEVER HAPPENED.

Really? who is really nieve enough to believe this crap.

Rumours in aviation, if ya haven't heard one by noon start one

"On top of this when it does shut and it will"


Rocket scientist, name 1 airline in Canada that hasn\'t shut down if you think West Jet will be there forever, keep drinking your kool-aid.

P-thrust,


I think that what our Westjet friend is refering to when he talks about SG folding .....just think:Connifair/Intair/Royal

Don't you see the pattern with Leblanc?
Sure no airline is sure to be around forever but I think the odds at Jetsgo are really not in your favor i'm affraid to say.

If I was there I would be sending my resume to AC or to Westjet or even Jazz.....as I give it maximum 2-3 years.How do I know? I look at what happened at all his other companies.
Good luck my friend ....you will need it

meaw, you are soo right where the hell were ya when I went to Royal, why didnt you tell angus and Lecky to leave us alone and not buy us. You know all this and you didnt stop those as_holes from driving into those buildings and saving C3, Anset and Swiss just to name a few. Why didnt you warn us of the gulf war, SARS, and mad cow and save our jobs at Transat, or at least warn us that westjet was going to undercut our flying at group AT avoiding the whole Air Transat layoff in the first place. I'll tell you why because you know as much about whats gonna happen in the future as the rest of us which is sh-t. ok, i'll end the venting now, just that you can never tell whats gonna happen next in this industry there are alot of surprises.


ps if you do have a functioning crystal ball i'd like to borrow it.

min-div fuel?
 

min-div fuel?

yes i know what it is! you sound military. how about the TD(y) howgozit?

Maybe you should ask your maintenance contractors in YUL, since info is obviously not shared. It happend buddy, ask about the race the Vegas and the outcome. Your elevator jam happend in YUL as well.
As for WJ so called undercutting, Transat came to us and asked what we charge, also the routes we fly for AT have tosmall pax loads to have a 310 or 330. Here's my crystal ball for you,
Quebecair(closed), Intair (closed), Conifair (closed), Royal (closed), what did this places have in common, M.Leblanc. It's not too hard too look into the futur. This time he will add an extra screw job when he folds it 30k from each pilot. It will be his best scheme ever.

turboprop - Jet upgrade
 

whoo, you think its quick to take a B1900 dude and put him on trans-atlantic ops. Here in europe the new things is get lowhoured pilots into jets, me myself had 300 h C172/C340 :oh: before I got into 737NG rightseat, now thats quick.

Actually, it was C172RG time :ok:

sorry for the less than perfect english

/duece

What can you say, I guess that's great news for you. Having said that I think the Jet'sGo topic and what comes with has been done to death, amd your right most of what is said is rumour although some truths peak out. I can't help getting frustrated at it though as one guy in this always comes out of it some how with a pile of $$. Good luck to everyone and keep safe.

Are you trying to bring up my blood pressure on purpose :E

I am NOT American. I have no opinion in what they do Disco Stu. However, if what you have stated to be true, I think they (Southwest) can go :mad: themselves. Shame on them.

Wow! I am speechless.

Paid to play huh?

Lemme explain something to you.

i)During our career (up to the age of 60) will be emersed in a lifetime of study and constant testing and retesting.

ii) Every six months, our job is on the line during simulator training.

iii) every 6 months to 1 a year we are under the mercy of a medical exam.

iv) I won\'t even mention how hard it is in the beginning with fresh ink on your license to find even a hangar brooming job.


Professional ping pong players are the ones that get paid to play.

We are professionals. We get paid to do a job we love.

P-Thrust,

I don't need a crystal ball to predict the future.......the past is a good indication of the future and your man has run 4 companies and none of them exist today.Each time one of his places shut down a lot of poor folks lost big bucks except him who keeps getting richer and richer.Those places didn't shut down because of 9/11 or mad cow or takeovers........that's a load of crap and you know it. He makes his money by closing the place down at the opportune moment and that's all. I just feel sick to my stomach that all you guys and the suppliers will get screwed again and your mllionaire friend will just get richer.

As for all the incidents happening at Jetsgo, I know the MD and who are you kidding flying with 35 more pax than what regular airlines operate them with and on flights like yyz-LAS/yyz-yvr/ yz/lax.......are you kidding me?It is impossible that the load numbers and fuel are not fudged..impossible my friend.

Any truth to the near stall of the WestJet NG in the missed at YYZ?
Any truth to the flying school pilot that has been a captain there for the last few years? Or can you "picture it"?
WestJet have upgraded in short order turboprop guys also.

You are not any more special than the rest of us. Or do you guys have your own version of 'your the best of the best' speech that is rumoured to come from your arch-competitor?

MIN DIV is not military.... whatever. Call it TD if you wish. There other acronims that are not on your flight plans that you might consider one day as you venture into the ETOPS world.

Just remember this. WestJet has a lot to gain by doing what they do best. But WestJet is still a growing company which is gaining experience collectively. WestJet has been sucessful so far. Hope for those there that it will continue to be.

Meanwhile it appears that JetsGo is giving vigorous competition. If they are gone one day.... there will be someone else in their place. Maybe it wil be ML at the helm again ... who knows and who cares really.

Both airlines have some very experience people. Yet WS also have captains who have not flown into YYZ yet. Never mind doing transatlantic into Europe.

Arogance of the evil empire has long been resented amongst Team TEAL. Remember the ad campaign .... "It's all about experience" Team RED had a few years ago?

Is that same attitude starting to become part of the TEAL culture also?

Food for thought for the open minded.

Agree that each company will have it's share of in-experience, but what is the goal and why were they hired. Was it because they could pay 30k or was it because they showed promise.
I don't think it's arrogance were looking at but questions about a company who's leader already has a poor track record. Everyone must remember the Royal days, it was insanity. It seems as though the past is repeating itself except in a worse way.
As for SG given anyone either AC or WJ a run for their money I don't see it. SG's loads are terrible, the customer service is horrid and as mentioned in The Journal de Montreal the have the most complaints against them of any airline in Canada. It's a sinking ship and chances are going to be taken, just like Royal. Anyone here around for the 310 1 engine ferry? Luckily they got caught.

My sympathy to the crews but...

I booked a return flight YYZ to YEG about 2 months ago (see my earlier post). We took off from Pearson, got up to about 9000 ft., did a 360 and returned because of a pressurisation problem (capt. said there was a red light). Had to get a new plane. 4 hour delay.

Return: We were told there was a fuel problem so we couldn't use the main tank and we would have to land to refuel at least once. However... just after pushback capt. announced one of the generators was bad but we could still go as they would start the APU and use it in flight (but the fuel problem was fixed). But we had to return to the gate so the engineers and crew could do the paperwork... Deplaned and then a while later got back on. Pushed back but... capt. announced one of the engines wouldn't spool up. So back to the gate. 4 hours later... we actually got in the air.

Paul Trihey, VP Sales and Customer Service gave us a $100 credit voucher for the return flight, good for one year on any Jetsgo flight. But I haven't heard back after writing him about our outbound experience and asking for a voucher.

The moral of all this? No wonder the loads are terrible. I can only say the crews tried very hard and didn't lose their cool with a lot of pi**ed off pax.

WJMAN
"Anyone there for the one engine out ferry?"

Was there from the beginning to the end of the A310 program. I cannot think of anything so stupid. You give no credit for inteligent people. This does not even deserve an answer.

The only thing I cannot figure out is if this is arrogance to the extreme or ignorance to the nth power.

There was no single engine ferry or attempt that I am aware of.
Now how many degrees nose up was the NG? How slow did it get to?

Or do those things never happen?

Well we mus know a lot of the same people. I'm seriously not trying to be arrogant. I'm pointing out things that happend at time in a company I never want ot be a part of or hear of again.
Maybe this will jog your memory. 310 on arrival to xxx needs 19 quarts of oil added, broken oil return line found, illegal temp repaier tried to be c/o, no joy. It's decided to have a no pax ferry flight, crew and 1 mntc.Known leak persists engine shutdown continueon to better than dep mntc base. I was on the subsequebt engine chage.No feery flight permit was obtained or log entry made, Transport caught this one.
WJ did have a near stall in turb on lvl change,Capt reported it and it is know part of training.
I'll stay out of this from now on,I don't want to come off as arrogant, i'll always be biased towards Leblanc. He has cost lots of people $$ and job loss. He is a parasite of the aviatiuon industry. I too have friends and ex-coworkers at SG and I wish them luck and for wannabe's I hope they follow this thread.

ditto

WJMAN

Well what to say... It would seem that you are in the know of some facts that I was not part of. And I am sure we do know some of the same people.

You will not find too many ML sympathizers out there. However I have a lot of regard for a good many people I do know working at JetsGo. I will say that a lot of them are looking forward to moving on ... and others are quite happy to be there.

I did come across a bit strong in my previous post. Do not take it personal. I just happen to be aware of a few things at the TEAL shop that I would not post as I have a lot of respect for a lot of people there. You in fact may very well be one of them.

Offering Peace Pipe

Peace pipes are great, accepted and thanks. I guess all we can do is be spectators in Canada's ever increasinly turbulent airline industry and hope everything works out for everyone, and if by chance any of us are ever at the top of a start up or current airline we can learn from what we read and know and make some good decisions and changes.

MLS 12 D
It is true that C150 driver has moved up to a retractable. Why do you doubt this? His "fixed gear Cessna" days are now behind him , and I congratulate him on his progress !!

Never assume anything, 12D.

WJMan, perhaps yuo can explain this--since you seem to be so up on the goings ons:

3 weeks ago in YEG. Fueling company suspends ops temporarily due to unfit fuel. AC , Jetsgo and WJ at the gates and told they have to de-fuel. AC and Jetsgo are stuck for 5 hours because to de-fuel completely (ie. get rid of even risidual fuel in the low points) requires maintenance and a long time draining.

Yet WJ pushes an hour later!!?? They simply refueled, left the 'unuseable' at the bottom of the tanks and took off.

Ahh... there's the rub.

That is a pretty strong accusation. Do you know for certain that the fuel in the WJ aircraft came from the same supply as the others? If so, you should say so in your posting, otherwise you may want to be very careful what you insinuate.

Well Trader, I would really doubt anyone let alone Westjet would take a chance like that. As was said, what are the facts, are there more than one supplier in YEG?Was the contaminated fuel coming from one specific contaminated tanker or line? I think you would be hard pressed to find any crew who would take an aircraft after they've been told the fuel may be contaminated. I'm sure there is more to this than you are posting. My curosity will get the better of me and I'll probably look into it. Maybe i'll even come back and show you the info you omitted and/or didn't know. Were you there or is this second or third hand. I happen to know the YEG mntc guys very well, can't see them allowing the aircraft to leave under those circumstances either.I also see by your profile you work for Jet'sGO, at least you know where I stand when you read my name.
You wouldn't be an old ICC guy would you Trader?

Of course it is a strong accusation--not unlike the ones you have been posting on this thread.

I obviously don't know all the facts because I was not in the WJ cockpit! I do know that all teh aircraft were fueled from the same company and that WJ did defuel, as did AC and Jetsgo. However, AC and Jetsgo were there for 5 hours before they were authorized to gio while WJ spent a little over an hour.

Now, perhaps the 737 has some system that allows it to be drained COMPLETELY with little difficulty.

My accusation is no different than the ones you have spouted off regarding JGO running out of fuel or the stuck elevator etc etc etc. Some may be true but I would guess they are not the FULL facts--just as my post did not have the FULL facts.

But if you are going to spout off about everyone else you had better be prepared to take some.

Quite a few WJers seem quite keen on dragging others through the mud yet can't take the heat when it is sent back.

PS You don't know where I stand!!??????? That is why I put my info in my Bio----I don't need to put in in my handle!

"However, AC and Jetsgo were there for 5 hours before they were authorized to gio while WJ spent a little over an hour"

The difference is WJ has a maintenance base in YEG whereas JetsGo doesn't. In fact we pretty much have a maintenance base everywhere we go that can clear snags and MEL's whereas JetsGo has contract maintenance that can do walkarounds and basic maintenance. As far as AC goes, they may not have had maintenance engineers available in YEG that could clear that kind of problem (paperwork issues). So before spouting off about WestJet not clearing the fuel and taking off, get the facts straight. I could ask you what your completion rates are for flights or how many MEL's you carry around but I've only heard second hand that your maintenance is scary, so I won't mention it. Oh wait, now that I've said it, it must be true.

This is nuts, I just followed some links to other sites and found this same heated argument everywhere. I give up, I don't want to be a part of it anymore. I may have posted things I should have kept to myself and vice versa. It's too easy to get into this. We are all going to choose the side of who hired us, wether we got the job at place we wanted or took the first offer whatever. Aviation is in a state where you take what you can and hope for the best. I think WJ'ers are so high on WJ because as I've said after 8 companies this is the only place that has made the job enjoyable and treats me very very well. I'm sure there are still some who don't like it and the same again at Jet'sGO. The only thing that we do now for sure is that both Westjet, Jet'sGo and AC can't last, Someone will have to close and we could be very surprised at who does. There are many variables at play in each company that could end it. We may end up working together at some point more likely than not so from now on I for one will try to keep it civil. I may hate Michel Leblanc and his cronies for past transgretions but I can't very well heap everyone into the same pile and I know from experience some things are out of employees hands. Good luck once again.

eduted fer spull'in

Trader:

Please show me where I leveled one unfounded accusation against Jetsgo. If you can, I will apologize, otherwise, you owe me one, IMHO. I do not work for Westjet, but I have direct access to their safety manager, and I know how they do business when it comes to safety of operations. They have mtce staff in YEG and I'm sure that things were done "by the book". It does not take five hours to defuel a contaminated 737, if you have the people and the tools in place to do so. The fact that they took less time should tell you something positive about their maintenance capabilities, not the reverse.

I don't mean to be rude, but to quote Shakespeare, "Me thinks you doth protest too much". You may not like it, but Jetsgo has some serious safety issues that must be addressed. The lack of experience in the left seat is one of them, but there are others. Some former Jetsgo employees (they quit, they weren't fired) are telling some pretty frightening tales. I honestly hope that the issues are meaningfully addressed, and soon.

Safety Guy---I was actually commenting on what WJman presented and his accusations. My fault for not being clear.

Lack of experience---WJ has been upgrading in 2 years or less. Would that be considered lack of experience? Lots of guys off turboprops with WJ being their first jet.

"Methinks' my protest comes from the fact that, as I stated in a post above, it seems WJers are very quick to point out perciecved weakness in other company's yet are upset at the same being leveled at them. THAT WAS THE POINT OF THE FIRST POST I MADE. If you look at those other forums it always seems to be a WJer stirring up the rumour mill.

I can just as quickly take an "I heard", extropolate and then post on the internet.

WJman--the fact is I don't like the way Leblanc operates either. But then it is his company. I would also guess that 99% of would get along just fine if we worked together or sat down for a beer.

Pretty dissapointing watching this shytefest. If you guys have been around for anytime at all you have to know that anything can happen to anyone. Never say never.
WJman , you should keep this in mind before you start flinging accusations around. Someday you may even find yourself in a embarrasing situation...

Hi Rosbif,

I don't know anything about C150 driver, and I have no reason to doubt that he currently flies a 172RG. I did not mean to express doubt; my intention was more a gently sardonic "go nuts!" (i.e., have fun).

Sorry for the confusion caused, albeit inadvertantly.

MLS-12D

P-thrust...you don't consider an engine failure an emergency??

I guess these are considered incidents either...

--scraping your TRs on landing, then taking off, getting an unsafe light and continuing to fly for another 3 hours...

--dropping 5000 feet out of coffin corner

--having to come back and land VFR because the captain decided to turn off all the IRS's in flight

:ugh: scary

You see. Even retractable Cessna drivers can find out what's really going on. Keep up the good work C150. !!!:O

May I may a small suggestion:

(1) anyone who has evidence that a specific airline is operating in a dangerous, reckless or negligent manner should make a formal report to Transport Canada's enforcement division, in order that a full investigation may be conducted and the travelling public may be safeguarded (if TC isn't interested, contact the CBC);

(2) anyone who isn't in a position to follow (1) should avoid innuendo, which just leads to hurt feelings.

TC isn't interested. (No accident yet)
Why don't you contact the CBC ?:sad:

I wouldn't be too sure about that. TC monitors incident reports from various sources, such as CADORs, mandatory reports to TSB and confidential safety reports.

Therer's no doubt TC has all the documented reports of any (if any) incidents. The rest of the industry knows the score and I'm sure TC does too. But in the interest of competition, I'm afraid it will take a major oops to expose the truth. This country has been brainwashed into thinking that our national carrier's monopoly is such a bad thing that we now find ourselves questioning safety. A few of us had predicted this. Funny how prior to the low-cost euphoria there was seldom any question about safety. May I make only one suggestion, as a group of professionals we have to stick together. If you have a concern about who you work for, do something about it. We'll be our own worst enemies at the rate we're going. Don't let who you work for or how much you get paid affect your profesional integrity.