Is finding a job easier in Canada now than it was 10-15 years ago?
 

I left Canada 10 years ago and have been living in Japan since.

I've been running an aviation related training business here with pretty decent success but I would like to get flying again.

I gave up on piloting as a career when I was younger because 9/11 happened just after I got most of my licenses and the industry was a complete wreck.

Some of my friends were working at Jazz-type carriers and were making something like 20k a year take-home pay, and no job security. I made significantly more money than that after coming to Japan and starting my business, and while I like my life in Japan, I would prefer to be flying. I don't want to be living on kraft dinner though. I'm getting married soon and 20k is not even close to enough especially considering I'll probably have to pay for additional licenses or certs myself.

Working at a Japanese airline is not realistic unfortunately, they groom Japanese candidates from junior high school age and put them in jets the moment they're done college.

How are instructor jobs doing these days? And after timebuilding, how do the options look? Is going up north still the only way, or are there different career routes? Has the pay increased?

Early 30's, low time but have most of the important licenses taken care of, speak English Japanese and French.

Finding a job in Canada is extremely easy. The shortage is felt even here. You will take home much more than 20k lol. Joining as an FO Jazz or Georgian for example, which are AC Express carriers, you will take home between 3500 and 4000 a month. Upgrades to captains are quick also and you will take home almost double.

Thanks for the reply.

Is the shortage real or anecdotal? When I was getting my basic licenses, people were talking about the "pilot shortage" both before and after 9/11 but I saw with my own eyes that my instructors and friends were having a hell of a time finding work. A number of them ended up going off to Africa and Asia to fly bush or float operations and were not earning real money, though they were building time and a few of them got their turbine time built up in this manner.

What are realistic time requirements for joining as an FO at a Canadian carrier now? Does the carrier pay for type ratings for something like a Q400 if you're coming in as someone with nothing but piston twin experience?

The shortage has begun... it's not at the "do you have a pulse and are you breathing" stage yet, but you are seeing people with 1000 to 1500 hours getting hired at airlines (feeders). Something that has not happened here since the 1970's. People are going straight from Flight Instructor to Dash 8 without having to go up north and work on a dock or a ramp. What used to take 10 years is now down to 5 or even 2 in some cases. Prospects for new hires will only get better because they were born in the right years. Money... well... the management here has had it really good for a really long time and they are having a difficult time admitting and adjusting to the new reality... so, don't expect a bag of gold at the doorway but I have faith it will improve.

If you have an ATPL and some multi pic, you can pick any non-airline job you want, small operators are hurting a lot.

If you have the above and want to go the airline route, it is way easier than it was before, if you are willing to move.

If you don't have your ATPL, it's still not super easy. Getting the first 500 hours is still quite hard. 500 to ATPL is getting easier as well, but still no walk in the park.

If I can ask some advice

What the chances of getting a job, any aviation job, without the right to live and work? Are there any companies that will sponsor a pilot, of is it not going to happen?

I have 2000hrs, mostly on caravan's in the bush in Africa. Me and my wife both qualify for the express entry program and it would make it much easier to complete the process of PR if one of us just receives a job offer.

No ATPL yet because of night hours...bush flying....

My TC medical is done, and I am busy with the license conversion.

Any input would be appreciated

Wayyyy easier, even regionals are parking planes right now due to lack of crew.

It's just the beginning, next year there's gonna be massive retirements and the new duty regs should be in effect. Just for the duty they expect about 25% more pilots per company.

Unless there's a major economic crisis the future looks bright for canadian pilots.

Pretty much zero.

Paradox. There a company in Japan that will be receiving 10 Kodiak Quest turboprops , there might be some opportunities here in Japan.

Thanks for the replies guys. I hope this thread can become a productive discussion about Canadian av employment.

Wickedwings, without a valid visa you're gonna be on hard times. I would strongly recommend gaming the system - Canada has a few laws that will enable you to get a job but you'll need to know somebody beforehand. Find someone who has a company that requires a specific skillset. IIRC the requirement is that the company has to advertise the job to Canadians first and then if the job can't be filled by Canadians, they are allowed to hire from overseas. If you can find a small business owner willing to do this for you, you're golden.

Thanks for the info Peak Tram Driver. I don't think I have much of a chance with them, my time is too low. Been flying since 10 years old but total loggable time is just not enough so I need to get my hours up to 2k+. Do you think speaking fluent English and Japanese is at all useful? I don't think converting my quals to the local JP equivalent would be a problem. I have something resembling a spouse visa in Japan (no restrictions on work).

What about the new Canada Immigration Express Entry system based on points?
I'm sure you can apply without a job offer.

I think speaking the local lingo helps a lot, plus have the right to work. I think try and convert your qualifications, and then keep trying . There's a shortage of pilots in Japan right now, very few Japanese are training overseas, so your in a good position. Where do u live in Tokyo? I live in Meguro, maybe get a beer one day and talk aviation!

Thank you for the feedback. Much appreciated.

Job board
 

Hi there,

Im a foreign pilot planning to move to Canada around mid November. I will be doing the conversion of my ICAO ATPL and also have a 1 year work permit to start with.

What sites would you recommend to look for a job? I have corporate and general aviation experience. Is there a specific site for corporate aviation? I use a lot pilotcarearcenter... Well, Im not looking only for a corporate so, any site would help.

Thanks in advance! Keep it up.

There is a Corporate forum on the web site called avcanada.ca

Based on what I read on avcanada, it certainly seems much easier than when I started 20 years ago, much lower hour requirements for the regionals. when I joined Jazz in 2005, I think the lowest time guy on our course of 26 guys had 5000 hours. I had 7000. Now 1500 is no problem.

Dear pfvspnf, have you actually read the Corporate forum on avcanada.ca ? Your comment borders on being a troll.
https://i.imgur.com/dtwazRQ.jpg

By the way, the contraction "Who'll" means "who shall/who will".

arvida no canadian regional has ever parked a plane for lack of crew. Jazz has a good flow program going right back to the air cadet program. Encore has lots of coolaid and free hugs and still manages to staff their Q's. They Encore has almost reached the end of their expansion to 45 tails. Despite having a few people not show up at ground school because better offers came in no flight has ever been cancelled for lack of crew.

paradoxbox I also started in 2001 and had to go into another industry for nearly a decade because of 9/11. Married a Japanese woman but sadly never moved there. Perhaps you're really living the dream and don't know it.
That said, plenty of smaller 703 companies are having trouble attracting and retaining people. I don't know if salaries have moved in the last 17 years or not but the amount of time you have to put up with crap has drastically decreased.

If I could suggest looking at jobs in Yellowknife you might be able to use your Japanese skills on your days off and make a couple of extra bucks. Some of the best flying I ever did was for a company up in Yellowknife. It's no shinagawa but as far as northern jobs go, it's a pretty good place to be. The company I used to work for is taking guys with less than 500 hours and putting them in the right seat of 705 machines. I don't have to tell you that this was unheard of 15 years ago (5 years ago for that matter).

I'm not on here often but PM me if you want to chat. Best of luck.

Thanks guys!
 

Hi there,

Sorry for the lateness, I just come back to reality (Uruguay) after a week in Toronto.

Went there to get my first cat 1 medical and start the process of conversion of my Uruguayan (ICAO) ATPL. I did not have much time to visit companies, airports, etc I could only walk in at one company based at Buttonville and they shown interest on me, I even got an interview! After that, I got the feeling that with 1600TT, jet experience and ATPL won't be hard to get into a cockpit, but I'm aware that paycheck will be shameless at the beginning, I've no problem with that, I'm aware that I should start over again (regarding making money).

Now about Porter airlines, I applied, got interviewed and they told me to contact them again once I have the right to work in Canada and my license converted. I already have the right to work and a PR application in progress. The conversion it's something that I'm gonna do in December when I move there. Does anyone know how to prepare for the screening process? Most of the times you have only one shoot, and I'm exited to be part of Porter, I know that money it's not the best, but it's not only about the money, there might be other benefits that compensate your paycheck...

I would like to thank you guys for your replies and guidance, we may end up sharing a cockpit! Who knows.

Thanks: @Kewbick @GMC1500 @Willing_to_fly

Finally, last month I got interviewed by Copa Airlines, if anyone here would like to know about the process just DM me. In advance, I can tell you that there's an interview prep subscription at latestpilotjobs that it's JUST LIKE the real process, except for the ATPL questions which I have ;) (21 out of 30).

Keep it up!

Congratulations on Porter and good luck

To come to Canada, forget trying to do it legally. Much easier to just come across at an unofficial crossing and you'll be welcomed with open arms. And they give you free stuff.

Just tell them Justin invited you!

Great comment!
 

Justin is a very charitable PM...he should see what mess we are getting into in Europe by letting these people just come into Europe...
Immigration is a good thing but it needs to be systemized and points based.

There's a lot of truth in the above statements. I immigrated in 2003-04. Even though I qualified under the Skilled Worker Program and my wife and kids were all Canadian citizens by birth, it still took almost 24 months, great expense and STUPEFYINGLY incompetent officialdom until the process was finally completed: by which time every little clerk in Vegreville had recorded everything on his/her little piece of paper at least in triplicate, rolled up the piece of paper and shoved it up his/her a**! (Because they're all anally retentive.)

I now realise that I could have saved myself all that time, money and frustration just by walking across the border while on vacation in the States, whined on CBC about how I was being repressed by someone back home who was being beastly about me being disabled / lesbian / religious or how Mother Nature had inflicted a hurricane or earthquake on me and thereby infringed my human rights. :ugh:

Of course, for the true 5* Immigration Canada experience, I should have just become a terrorist and qualified for the $10+ million award such folk now receive...

Play by the rules??? :mad: THAT!!!

Dunno about now but back in 1999 it was impossible... at least in BC... my dream was then to fly the local twotters after commercial but ended up in UK (Dual citizenship) and eventually flying 737 in SE Asia (took 3 years). The market then was crap.

Also very insular... it definitely helped who you knew... the times I was told rudely no way son...

Never thought of returning... the only thing I miss bizarrely is Thrifty's.

Hello all,

I’ve come upon the opportunity to move to Canada next summer, my wife was offered a job in Toronto and therefore I also get the legal right to work, I was hoping some of you could give your opinions regarding what jobs are within my reach realistically.

38 y/o
9000TT
3500h Pic A320
About 3000h f/o widebody (767/330)
Level 6 Icao English

Currently working for a South American carrier making a whopping $4200usd per month in the left seat of an A320, living in a country with no future that gets more expensive each day.

I have been reading a few posts here and on Avcanada as well, don’t mind going back to the right seat at all as long as I can get by on my salary and I have something resembling a quality of life.

While also browsing thsese pages I found out about Air Georgian as a DEC, if I am not mistaken the montly salary is about 6200cad, the question is, what does that get me in Toronto? Will I be able to pay rent at least?

Any input is more than welcome.

Companies won't sponsor non-residents
 

I have my PR and I came to Canada as a student, graduated to get a work permit and ultimately became a Permanent Resident under the Express Entry scheme. Companies won't sponsor non-residents to fill their Pilot vacancies. The demand isn't that bad (yet). If you're looking to increase your Express Entry points, I highly recommend giving your IELTS or CELPIP again..a good score makes a difference. :ok:

Depending on who you talk to, that could very easily describe Canada with the way trade relations is going with our cousins to the south. Although I tend to think that we will be OK in the long run, going back to the way things were before NAFTA might very well have an impact on aviation, especially in Ontario which is heavily dependent upon cross-border trade and employment. Think about the free trade between Ontario, Michigan, Ohio, and New York and all those people flying down to NYC for work. That's a lot of empty seats on a Q400, Beech 1900D, or CRJ200 if things go bad.

So, you are coming in on a work visa? I do know of guys who were hired at smaller charter companies on a work visa, but it was always on the understanding that they were already working towards a permanent residency. I'm not too sure how legal that is (i.e., if it infringes upon any privacy rights), but this was not Air Canada or WestJet and it certainly wasn't Toronto.

Rent...yes. Quality of life while living in Toronto? No.

When most people say they want to "live in Toronto" they mean down in Terminal Four - or whatever they're calling it these days - but it's roughly taken to be the area around High Park, but even that depends upon who you talk to. "In Toronto" can even mean out towards Oakville, Burlington, Milton, G-Town, etc - but only to those who did not grow up in the GTA and understand the importance of not claiming yourself from the city. :O

Most guys I know who work out of Toronto have moved out towards Guelph, Brantford, Barrie, and even as far as London to the west and Trenton to the east. The big question then becomes where your wife will be working and what sort of commute you and her want.

Yet another pilot shortage article but it appears to center on Canada so I'll put it here:


https://www.aerotime.aero/en/civil/2...nd-the-economy

My favourite bit is where they say $173,000 is 49% more expensive than $85,000

Wicked Wings,
You are welcome to ask questions.
Everyone goes thru the learning process.

The answer to your question is

Very good chances of getting an Aviation Job,
ignore the redneck doom and gloom.
Read my other recent post about jobs in Canada.

I just helped a South African get his Canadian CPL and while his situation
is different from yours, the "chances of getting an aviation job or any job" is better than anytime in 50 years or more.

It is simply mindboggling the amount of jobs, let alone in Aviation.
Every Tim Hortons or McDonalds is full of immigrants who are fast tracked
here by "agents" who are running immigration companies to supply that need.

Across Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta, its just amazing the number of foreign workers employed.

Now, several "mill" flying schools, do exactly the same thing, they have a large movement of students, who turn into instructors, many of them have difficult to understand accents and who leave with 500 hours to go co-pilot on a 1900.

In a company with 20 pilots within six months you can be half way up the seniority list. Things are happening that quickly.

Pilots with next to Zero "real" PIC time are going captain, which means in the next few years, we will see a number of accidents due to inexperience and more importantly, a lack of real world decision making practice.

Canada offers a wealth of opportunities in Aviation to get "real world experience" , real PIC time and move ahead rapidly.

Don't expect anyone to "Sponsor" you , it can and does happen but it will only happen, generally, if you turn up in person, gain your basic Class 4 Instructor Rating in Canada and by the time you finish the training, you will be hired, almost guaranteed.

You can get a student visa for that from SA and that will turn into an Employment Visa.

You should take careful note that some provinces, like Manitoba can arrange for not only a Student Visa but an employment visa as well which follows your training, that you pay for.

Once you are instructing, you will earn a reasonable income that could easily pay off your instructor rating in less than a year.

Now, again, go read my last post.

Regards

Ramjet

Any age limit on flight instructors in Canada?
I am turning 60 soon and still want to fly for a living.

Hi, there is no age limits on flight instructors. You would be welcome.

The demand for pilots has gone nuts in Canada. Maintaining staffing of flight instructors is a major challenge for flying schools.

Adam

Love PanAm,
Take a close gander at the post of PittsS2B,

Harv's is a great place to start, Adam, Luke or Harv will have you instructing in
a shorter time than you now think possible.

Instructors now rarely get past a few hundred hours before they move on.

If you like instructing, all you need to do is a practice ground, practice air, and get a recommendation and rewrite the written, if its been more than two years. If you have any experience , you could be doing your practice in the morning and your ride in the afternoon.

They are begging for instructors across Canada and with some real world experience, students will be lucky to have you, and, you will probably be a sought after instructor.


Now, there is a second tier of flight training in Canada.
Once they get their
CPL MIFR, with 250 hours they are being put right seat on turbine aircraft
where their flight training continues.

Ramjet

Hello guys,

just a question:
I got a CPL IR (easa) about 1000 hours (sep), do you think it's easier to get a Visa for a european ?

maybe a naive question but it's worth a try : would the airlines up there offert a license conversion (kind of sponsorship..) ?

thank you!

No.

It's a cheap country filled with cheap managers and cheap companies. If it costs money, you have to pay for it yourself. I am being only slightly facetious.

Pittss2b and Ramjet555

Thanks for the information.
I had a look at Harv'Air. I like their fleet especially tailwheel and Pitts aircraft, also the seaplane. I will try to find out more about the possibility to get a job there, but according to their info on hiring, I would have to apply to immigration as I will not train for a least 8 months there. If I did CPL and FI training at their school, it would be very easy to get hired.

Thanks to all.
Happy landings!

Jobs in Canada for Australians
 

If you are an Australian Citizen and have some experience
and want to have the experience of working in Canada drop me a line.

Prefer to hear from someone with turbine multi time.

Drop me a PM

WickedWings
 

Apologize for the OT.
But WICKEDWINGS, you sent me a private message,I had time just now to reply to you, but you're not receiving message.
bye

I instructed for 3 years back in the mid-80's then interviewed for ATC. The best move I personally made, got off that gawd aweful gerbil wheel of chasing my phantom dream job. Just telling my experience and no one else.

This thread hasn’t been updated in a while, so thought I’d garner opinion on the current prospects in the Canadian aviation market. Currently LHS 777, around 10k hours. Would happily sit RHS in a Q400 or E-Jet. What are the chances of being hired as a foreign national? Particularly for the west coast? Any tips on the best way to get the ball rolling?