"The saving grace is that most who come back will be flying with senior F/O's in the company who in my experience are a very enjoyable and stable bunch of pilots to work with."

You must be kidding right?
Those senior F/O 's would be Captain's or more senior F/O's. Shows how you guys really have your heads up your behinds.
Bunch of champions.

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -Einstein

"Shows how you guys really have your heads up your behinds"-Me
"Bunch of champions"-also Me

As Hervé Villechaize often said in his role as "Tattoo" on the TV Series Fantasy Island, ""Ze plane, Ze plane!"

How about dealing with the issues, rather than with the attacking the parties? We already have a fairly good exposé of the positions of the parties.

What about the issue itself? What happens next?

Ze plane!

1. The people fighting this seem oblivious to how contemporary Canadian society views mandatory retirement.

2. The people fighting this seem oblivious to how provincial, territorial and soon federal governments view mandatory retirement.

3. The people fighting this seem oblivious to how the CHRT views mandatory retirement.

4. The people fighting this are conducting themselves as if the ruling last August never occurred.



I don't think the people fighting this should be accusing anybody of having their head up their ass.

Hey Ray

I understand the Senators have mandatory retirement age of 75 in Canada. I don't know if there is a BFOR to force them to retire....maybe we could add them to the CHRC's caseload???

I am certain that their human rights and dignity are being trampled upon:http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/boohoo.gif

"Normal Age of Retirement"
 

References are made to the Senate retirement age of 75.

If the posters referencing the 75 limit for Senators are suggesting that 75 is the normal retirement age in the Federal Sector, perhaps there is room for negotiation with the Fly Past 60 group.

There have been limits of 75 for some judges as well, but these are being eliminated in recent years.

Then that just becomes another case of a group negotiating away individual rights, only at a different age. Once it reached the CHRT challenge stage any chance of an accommodation disappeared. The next step for ACPA and Air Canada once they open their eyes and see the reality will be making a BFOR case for 65.

If they were smart they would have been doing that from the get go knowing they didn't have a chance of winning age 60.

I was poking fun at the deniers amongst us! As they are horrified at the concept of pilots over 60, I was going for apoplexy at the concept of pilots age 75.

Apoplexy...perfect. :ok:

Using age as a defining factor in the ability of any pilot to fly competently and safely is a poor indicator for the simple reason everyone ages at a different rate.

My benchmark for flying ability in the later years of ones life is Bob Hoover who was still doing his routine at airshows in his early eighties.

How many of you keeners are able to fly as good as Bob Hoover did in his eighties?

Another sign of the times:

Sarkozy follows Europe in raising retirement age - Europe, World - The Independent

Sarkozy follows Europe in raising retirement age.

The French, who have the youngest retirement age in Europe, will soon have to work longer to qualify for a full state pension. As unions called a nationwide strike to defend pension rights today, the government said that France could no longer afford the retirement age of 60 – for both men and women – which has existed since 1982.

So can someone who is currently flying for Air Canada clarify for me then, are the 'fly past 60' pilots going to remain on active duty?

Air Canada & ACPA are still forcing people to retire until the decision comes down shortly. Apparently $35,000 per day in damages is an irrelevant amount to them. :ugh:

Here is a short summary of the status of pilots and/or complainants. Essentially, there are five separate categories, or groups of pilots in issue.

The first category is comprised of George Vilven and Neil Kelly only. Their remedy hearing has been completed; neither Air Canada nor ACPA has opposed their reinstatement, so that reinstatement will therefore be ordered on the release of the Tribunal decision, on or about June 1st.

The second group is the 70 pilots who completed their remedy hearing before the Tribunal in January. The decision on the liability is pending and should be released within the next month. Absent an agreement by Air Canada to have any or all of them to return to work through a settlement of all or part of their complaints, assuming that the decision is rendered in their favour, they will then be scheduled for a remedy hearing by the Tribunal. It will be some time after that that Air Canada will be ordered to reinstate those who wish to return to work.

The third group is all those pilots who have filed complaints before the Commission, but whose cases have either not yet been referred to the Tribunal, or are pending before the Tribunal. There are approximately 80 pilots in that category, growing weekly.

The fourth category is those whose involuntary termination of employment is pending, due to their forthcoming 60th birthdays. They may or may not be able to continue working, depending on how Air Canada responds to the above to pending decisions, once the decisions are released.

The last category is those whose involuntary termination of employment would occur more than 90 days after the release of the V-K decision, assuming that the decision includes a cease order. The Commission has asked for an order forcing Air Canada to cease and desist from involuntarily terminating the employment of pilots, based on age, but all parties have agreed to a 90 delay in the effective date of implementation of that order, if granted, in order to allow Air Canada to make the necessary arrangements to accommodate those changes, including changes in the PBS system to accommodate scheduling of over-age 60 pilots on international flights while meeting the crewing requirements of the ICAO Over-Under rule.

Pilots who have not filed a complaint within 12 months of the date of their termination of employment normally do not have any right, under the CHRA, to file a claim, so the list will be, for all intents and purposes, closed to anyone who was forced-retired more than one year prior to the forthcoming cease order.

In Europe workers are down in the streets trying to stop their governement from changing (increasing) the normal age of retirements.

Here in Canada we have a group of (selfish) individual who are trying to change (increase) the (normal age of retirement with a good pension) for their own benefits and doing that at the expenses of the younger pilots.

What is wrong with this crowd...:ugh:

"Trying to change the age of retirement" or "Suggesting that pilots wake up to the reality of the law that governs them and deal with that law to their advantage before it is too late"? Which one is it?

We are not trying to change the age of retirement. Parliament already did that. The consequences are in your hands.

Do not blame the Governement for what your are trying to do.
The law was change many years ago but it had not affected the AC pilots normal retirement pension. (those complainants benefited from the non application of the law as it did not delay their own career progression).

Some think that retiring with a pension of $100,000 to 132,000 per year is not enough...and want to keep working for a difference net (after tax) in the range of $20,000 to $50,000 per year.

By stoping/delaying career progression by 5 to 10 years it does affect the whole system all the way down.

Those hired in their 20's can get the maximum pension benefit. That was the norm many years ago. In the last 10 years, most are hired in their 30's and 40's, and will NEVER get the maximum pension benefit.

The Junior pilots have been brainwashed by ACPA into thinking they don't want to work past 60. That is because no one has sat down with them to calculate their pension payout with only 15-25 years of service at retirement.

Pointed out elsewhere there are about 2800 AC pilots who will not even come remotely close to realizing their max pension earnings at age 60 based on the extremely high average hiring age.