I'm not in that group, yet I can see the benefits. How is that possible? By what data do you confidently predict an individuals best five years will not still occur before they are 60 under the new conditions, and still be able to retire with the same benefit? It's just a bad guess that fits nicely into preconcieved and poorly considered opinions. Nobody knows for sure until it happens.

Besides, it's irrelevant to the current conditions. The ruling has been made and we will at some point have to get down to the business of complying with it. The longer that takes the worse off the pilot group will be.

The union has been studiously avoiding any mention of the current state of affairs or the inevitable conclusion now only a few weeks away. When the penny does drop who are we going to blame? The agents of inevitable change? The organization who fought the useless fight and refused to tell the truth to the membership? Or will it be ourselves for living in such selfish and short-sighted denial?

Whatever the answer is, it will have no bearing on the CHRT ruling or the direction we will have to go in the near future. It will only effect our attitudes.

J.O.:

If this case were truly and legitimately about age discrimination instead of just a cash grab, there would have been many more than two people signing up to take on this fight. Of that you can be sure.

In fact, there are almost 150 Air Canada pilots who have filed complaints with the Commission, since 2006, with about five new complaints being filed every month.

No one is arguing the fact that Canadian law prohibits discrimination on the basis of age. What is being argued is:

1. whether the tribunal should be allowed to throw out a mutually agreed and collectively bargained working condition;

The Tribunal not only has the jurisdiction but the duty to do so, when the provision offends the law, as it does. In fact, it has already ruled that the provision violates the Act. The Chairman stated that the pilots will be reinstated. A good portion of the hearing this week dealt with the terms of that reinstatement. Neither the airline nor the Association opposed the reinstatement.

1. the fact that these retirees frequently benefited from the mutually agreed retirement age when it came to progression up the seniority list and the requisite benefits that came with;

Please read my post above regarding the impact of changes in the law;

1. neither of these gentlemen faced discrimination on the basis of age when they were hired by Air Canada, nor when they were moving up the seniority ladder as their elders retired;

Absolutely not correct, in this case. First Officer Vilven received a letter from the Chairman of the Pilot Selection Board at Air Canada in 1974 stating that he was too old to be hired, and that he should therefore consider other options. He was hired 12 years later, after some other pilots took their case of age discrimination to the Tribunal, forcing Air Canada to abandon is maximum age of hiring restriction.

1. neither of these gentlemen has suggested that those who went before them at 60 were discriminated against and that those individuals who retired after the adoption of the Human Rights Act should therefore receive compensation prior to seeing anything themselves;

The statute governs this, as well. Under its provisions, one cannot file a complaint until one’s rights are violated. Protesting would have had no impact. The fact that these were the first two pilots to file complaints should not affect the determination of whether their claims have merit.

1. they were members of a collective body (the union) that agreed that retirement at age 60 was mutually beneficial to the employees and their employer.

Please read my post above regarding the impact of changes in the law. Unions are not entitled to bargain away one’s rights under the statute. Regardless of whether there was an agreement or not, the collective agreement is subservient to the law of Parliament. If parties could “contract out” of the human rights law, the law would have no validity.

I must say that invoking Machiavelli in this argument is interesting. Unfortunately the altruism you are attempting to convey just doesn't wash when one knows the particulars of the case. If this case had been presented solely on its merits and without hypocrisy, you wouldn't be seeing much of an argument. But because the truth is far less noble, you are seeing a backlash from the vast majority of those who will ultimately be affected negatively.

To what particulars and what hypocrisy are you referring? In what way was this case not presented on its merits? The pleadings are all public, the hearing was public, and the positions taken by all the parties were all public. Suggesting that there is a hidden, less noble agenda is not only unfair, but irrelevant. The real issue here is not the motivation of those supporting the change, but the fact that the change is coming, with or in spite of the Association’s position on the issue.

It's like deja vu reading this.

We went through the same stuff in Australia as the retirement age went from 55-57-58-60 and then ICAO lifted the international command age to 65.

Embrace the change and get on with it!:cool:

G'day ;)

Fly if you Qualify
 

It ain't "Fly 'til you Die," it's "Fly if you Qualify" (and want to). Have carefully checked the Constitution here in the United States... nowhere does it say "except for airline revenue pilots" when listing rights and freedoms. Qantas has never had a fatal accident in their domestic system and has no age limit... experience is an added safety enhancement (ask the FAA, January 30, 2007). They should be paying experienced pilots a bonus to stay on. The pipeline of motivated aviators is empty. Would you want your child to pursue a career that starts out at $16,000 a year with mountains of training debt? Mine builds Boeings... doesn't fly them. U.S. Congress is trying to rule you must have 1500 hours (ATP) to fly a commuter... just did not say where they are going to find them. Hours mean nothing. Overseas they are putting 200 hour pilots in the right seat of long haul and not allowing them to fly, but they are building hours! One F/O had zero landings after 500 hours! Another had three. Why do you think ICAO invented the Multi-crew pilot license; empty pipeline. Boeing can't sell planes without crews, so they train them off the street. Zero hours going in, 12 real landings coming out over a year later, good to go in the right seat (but not quaified or licensed to rent a single pilot plane and fly). It's gonna get ugly, and it is not the experienced pilots that are the problem. Hooray for the Canadians for sticking it out all these years to win their case. Wish they had done it years ago.

I doubt the intent of most responding to this thread is to attack the messenger. Those against the age 60 change at AC are simply calling it the way they see it. Boring everyone with lengthy legal jargon to support your case goes no where in this forum.

This entire country has gone over the top, human rights tribunals, Canada labour board etc. what a joke, they are all nothing more then a heavily influenced, political Kangaroo court. Everyone has some gripe or complaint to play, whether it is age, race, disability, native or what ever. The people involved in this application have lost all sense of moral responsibility to their fellow pilots and are nothing more then a pack of thieves. The only people that will benefit from this change are themselves at the expense of others.

Lets not forget Air Canada pilots still enjoy the benefits of lucrative full pension plan on retirement at age 60. Other airlines without pension benefits or those lost to chapter 11 filings in the US are a different story. The major issue for most is how the age 60 issue relates specifically to Air Canada pilots and it's collective agreement that his been in place for many years.

It is very interesting you have chosen to take on this fight Raymond when you have just retired near the top of the seniority list at age 60. Why has no one started this fight when they were my age, 35? I have been discussing the issue with some of my First Officers who are hoping to join AC when (if) they begin hiring again. Should you be succesful in achieving what you hope, they can kiss their chances goodbye of ever working for this company, at least for the next five years. Real nice. It is obvious by your reputation while working for this company you have only ever cared about yourself. Embrace the change you say, sorry not with you guys!

Do the old ruler grab test to check their reflexes. If they're slow, can em.

Older pilots should understand it, especially ones retiring right around now. They were on good enough contracts where it doesn't matter if they quit at 60 or even 55. They need to realize the situation our economy is in today..

I just changed my job prospect towards working for NavCanada as an ATC instead of a pilot. It sucks really, I don't have my dream job, but at least the pay (assuming I get the job), MAY one day help me buy a home in Vancouver, though I highly doubt that seeing the ridiculous housing market.

I think its time to look at recent history in regards to Air Canada pilots who have in the past run for Federal Office using the union/position/and the media, including the internet to pave their way to election , during my time at AC there were four, all used the same methodology, {1} Pick a cause which will grab the attention of those in the public who think in terms of slogans{ie" Im going to shut down all night flying at Vancouver airport "} this fellow, whose politics were somewhere to the left of Chaiman Mao was elected, another picked on a law and order ticket, somewhere to the right of Ronald Reagan, two were not elected, so Ray, call me a cynic if you will but with your bursting on this pilot webb site I see the same pattern/methods being used as those who went before emerging, tell us now, the real objective of your eloquent rant could it just be you have designs on Ottawa? The fact that all four, like youself had a far from event free history at the airline I think, in spite of the many derogatory remarks made about you at a recent gathering, should simply be put down to coincidence, anything else is to me totally out of line. So Ray, there we have it, is Ottawa actually your master plan?

Age is not a protected class. Age limits are legal, provided they meet the criteria set up by the Supreme Court. Rights are not unlimited.

I can't join the military at my age, there's an age limit on running for president and being a firefighter and lots of other things. When Hollywood casts a love story about college kids they can turn down a seventy-year-old actor. Nothing magical about age - not legally, anyway.

What a myopic, petty, shortsighted bunch of crybabies we are.

All I'm hearing are attacks against the character of those standing up for their rights, and yours if you give it two seconds thought. In your zeal to punish them the pilot group wants to impose even more age discriminatory measures denying bidding rights and pension benefits to anyone over 60. How stupid can we be?

Sooner or later everybody is going to have to look up the meaning of "age discrimination" and apply it to our situation. The CHRT has already told us to, so quit :{ , act like mature grownups and get on with it.

And then there was Ross Stevenson of course that was then this is now. All those who supported Ross put up your hand . As I remember no one did hey if he stayed it would have slowed down many careers over the last 30 years

EA340, for what its worth, if Ross {who I knew very well} had won his case he would in fact have died "on duty" maybe he would have wanted it this way, which brings up the pilot mortality figures, of the twenty five who joined on my intake, eight us us are still breathing above ground, make what you will of this in the context of "human rights", for myself I intend to banckrupt the pension plan! Flying tomorow, but its OK, my F/O is twenty four, her heart shouldnt stop pumping half way through the flight. For the folks demanding to stay at the "old firm", get a bloody life!Track me if you wish, CG KOZ.

I have to say, enginefireleft, that the only crybabies I have seen are the ones who feel they need to stay past sixty - I've heard: "but I got cleaned out in a divorce", "lost a ton of money in the markets" (this particular genius tried to corner the market in beanie-babies!!), "joined the airline a bit later and didn't get promoted until I was fifty-one" (conveniently ignoring the fact that he had deliberately bypassed his first promotion opportunity on the DC9), "had my children a bit later in life and have university tuition bills to pay". And then there are of course what I call the ego boys: four gold stripes and a widebody airplane make them a somebody. After listening to all these crybaby stories over the last few years, I am left with one thought: What makes your crybaby story any more important than anyone else's?

No, enginefireleft, there isn't any crying from the FTYD opponents, just a well-developed feeling that it is somehow latently unfair for an individual to make it to the top of the pyramid, solely by virtue of the fact that hundreds retired gracefully ahead of him, only to have this same individual start (usually in his last few years before age 60) crying that his civil rights are being trampled on.

The attempts of Ray and his followers to intellectualize a position which is essentially one of unmitigated greed and ego is nauseating.

Taco

For anyone interested, and unfortunately Raymond not many are, Raymond has brought his thoughts to this forum because he has been rejected from a few others.

Raymond, if i may call you by your first name.
Human rights aside (if you call them that). Is the governance of Canada and an association such as ACPA not funded on the basis of democracy? You should know this better than anyone. Is it "democratic" for a select few to force judgement upon an entire workplace?
Your political agenda is very anti-democratic (border-line socialistic).
You seem to enjoy antagonizing the junior ranks to get emotional reactions and i urge everyone to be very careful at what they write as he does not answer questions, rather deflects them as a true lawyer would . Your legal jargon does not impress me or others and comments you've made such as "can't wait to fly with them" are rather childish and quite foolish.

Romper Room
 

The rest of the civilized world has gone sixty-five, don't really see why AC should be any different. With improving health care, I don't doubt we'll see seventy in the next few decades.

But seriously my Northern friends, all the rattle-tossing going on in this thread really makes me wish I too, could suckle at the teet of a government flying club, safe and secure, oinking contentedly.

Not a happy place to be when a bankruptcy court vaporizes decades of pension contributions, tends to put a whole new Zen on the possibility of working another five years.

Ac Should Not Go To 65 Because Its Pilots Do Not Want To Go To 65. I Really Thought The Pilots Were The Ones That Mattered In This Case. Very Simple.

Bug Smasher,{Ah memories of the Beech 18!} Government flying club? Your a bit behind the times old chap, Canada has followed the American privitization god, ie "its not a vital part of our national infrastructure, its only for the big cities and the shareholders , the hell with small town Canada, they can do with a piston twin flown by two kids making $20,000 a year". Air Canada was privitized many moons ago, we are well down the road in the "race to the bottom".using the American comuters as a model.

U.S. as a model? God help you.....

My apologies clunck, a belated welcome then, to the dark side...

Pilots won't have to go to 65 if they don't want to just as before. No one is making them stay, and no one is changing the pension so they have to continue working. The only thing that's changing is the ability to force someone out at age 60. In this country that is age discrimination which is illegal. Majority wishes, negotiated contracts, compensation schemes and a misguided attachment to how things used to be do not grant permission to break the law in Canada. Air Canada pilots are in for a rough time until they wrap their brains around that fact.

Yes Taco, I know what's causing all the angst over this issue and I completely agree it's anger over a few people walking away with a perceived windfall. So what? These laws will be with us for decades to come and will provide you, me and everybody else with the option when we reach age 60 instead of forcing us out. In the larger picture it is protecting every single one of us against a form of discrimination which cannot be imposed upon us by majority opinion, just like every other form of discrimination. Viewed in the larger context the anger against those few who stood up for their rights (and yours whether you see it now or not) is small minded and petty. In time all but the most narrow minded will see this as inevitable and right.

Man...where to start. You would be happy bankrupting the pension? Thanks Clunk, but I would rather it be around for me and everyone that follows. You should also follow your own advice to get a bloody life because it sounds to me like you're still working.

Fire left, If you consider teaching deserving kids to fly a twin and getting valid real life multi time, so they can get a good flying job, to be work, then we will have to disagree, and by the way they get paid a living wage whilst doing same instead of paying the dual rate for the aircraft which in the case of a 421 can be as high as $1500 per hour, its called "giving somthing back", I realise this concept in the "Me Me " age we live in may be hard for some to grasp, also flying "Hope Air and Angel Flight" can hardly be considered work! Nor can flying a little airplane upside down once a week be clasified as "work", nor landing in a lake to drown some worms be considered "work", nor can be helping Air Cadets come under the heading of "work", but its obvious that we are on the other end of the teter toter when it comes to this stuff! A little story before I go, just had a beer with a 380 F/O who turned up twenty years ago at our outfit , with his single mum, he having quit in grade nine and was only one step ahead of the police, he now makes more money than any AC /WJ pilot and in turn is "giving back". As for bankrupting the pension, I can only hope I can live as long as my parents, come from stock with a history of longevity,{mind you they most likely lived a far more healthy life stlye!} Now watch as I keel over during my medical today! May you have as much fun in your future a my wife and I do in our dotage, the view from the outside looking in at the airlines doesnt seem nearly as much fun as it once was, and I doubt that regardless of the merits of this discussion that the atmosphere within the ranks of AC will improve as a result of this dispute, Regards Clunck.

I sometimes have a hard time considering what I do "work" as well. I too am teaching young pilots how to operate fast, complex jets at the same time they earn a wage (although not enough of one). I am also considering voluntarily extending the time at which I contribute to the pension while selflessly reducing the time that I draw from it. That will help improve the chances the pension will be around for those very same young pilots.

They can thank me later.

The trouble with being judgemental is that people usually change their attitudes as they get older and they end up on the other side of the argument without ever seeing the irony.

engfireleft

"I sometimes have a hard time considering what I do "work" as well. I too am teaching young pilots how to operate fast, complex jets at the same time they earn a wage (although not enough of one)"


If your an Air Canada pilot the above statement is an outright lie.......we don't have young pilots at this airline. Ninety percent of Air Canada pilots are over the age of 30 when they join and most have thousands of hours on various types...if they are from the military I am sure the training they have received is more than adequate!


"I am also considering voluntarily extending the time at which I contribute to the pension while selflessly reducing the time that I draw from it. That will help improve the chances the pension will be around for those very same young pilots."

Spare me...Your way to good to us Jr membership. I wonder how you would feel selflessly being a 777 rp rather than a Captain........:ugh: Intrest rates are rising and our pension is going to be just fine without your voluntary contribution to fly till ya die...

"They can thank me later."

Hold your breath and wait for the thank you!

"The trouble with being judgemental is that people usually change their attitudes as they get older and they end up on the other side of the argument without ever seeing the irony."


The problem with greed is you actually believe you deserve to make a couple of hundred large a year while booking off to further reduce your schedule from a whopping 9 days a month to 6 because its your right. I have been with AC for 10 years 4.5 I was on the 744 as an RP in Vancouver and I can tell you that not a single flight went by when someone over the age of 58 did not fall asleep in the flight deck. Take your hard earned pension and do what the Gentleman ahead of your did............Retire.

What ever happened to the class of pilot who actually wanted to leave this industry in a better state than what they found it in....

pitotman

Apparently you don't recognize tongue in cheek very well pitotman. Air Canada does have a large number of inexperienced jet pilots at the bottom of the list, but I will agree with this statement:

In fact the average age of a new pilot at Air Canada is 34. These people not only deserve a chance to earn the same pension as was originally envisioned (35 years service), but they will eventually wake up to the fact they are fighting aggressively to rob themselves of that. Then you will see some abrupt 180's in their attitude.

Seniority rights are seniority rights. I notice you can't wait to get there yourself and are prepared to cashier people before they are ready to achieve it. Is that greed I smell?

Also, why do you assume everybody in favour of eliminating age discrimination is old and at the top of the seniority list?

pitotman
Hmm I’ve only been flying AC aircraft for over 30 years so I couldn’t possible know as much about the airline as you do. If you’re serious about improving your take home pay why are you hiding out in Vancouver the most senior base? I’ve never fallen asleep in my seat on any aircraft however I’ve noticed all the young lions hang out in business class whenever they can or can’t wait to get into the bunk because they didn’t get their proper rest before reporting for duty. I would suggest that you put a rag in it before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

Air Canada Age 60 Limit To End
 

engfireleft,

I know what I signed on for here at Air Canada and I will honor it as I am a man of my word. A large number of inexperienced jet pilots.........come on man who are you kidding........every single pilot in this airline came from a commuter turbo prop, military, or a corporate outfit...I find it humorous that these inexperienced jet pilots have to have their hands held by you.

Inexperienced usually means hired out of university into the right seat of a 737 ala Ryan Air........so please again spare me! Fast jets or slow Jets are still a hell of alot easier to fly than a turbo prop.


"Seniority rights are seniority rights. I notice you can't wait to get there yourself and are prepared to cashier people before they are ready to achieve it. Is that greed I smell?"

See my first line, how am I greedy if I am willing to honor the contract that I signed on for? I don't for a second believe that you have to be old and sr to want to fly past 60. One of my best mates joined here at 32 and wants to fly to 65 and freely admits its for his own personal gain. I for one would like to sit back and have my career advance with attrition as it is designed to do.

The under lying problem for pilots is the sense of entitlement and greed. The cause to fly over 60 is one thing........but to mask it as a human rights issue is laughable and insulting to anyone who has ever had their human rights violated.

I am one of very few at Air Canada who have flown with pilots over the age of 60 and as I have stated on many occasion less that 10% of the pilots I have flown with can still fly to satisfactory standard. The marked decrease in one's attention span, fatigue and ability dramatically decreases as you approach 60 and continues to decrease in a linear fashion... I know a few guys who are over 60 and still fly better than the competent 40 year old. However they are the exception not the rule.....


How many times have you flown with an over 60 pilot across the pacific in the middle of the night?

Pitotman

Joined AC at 25, left at 57. Knew a few who would eventually have to be dragged, kicking and screaming when the finish line came. Felt sorry for them actually. I always felt that being an airline pilot was what I did....not who I am. Me thinks there are some who can't distinguish between the two. I flew with George Vilven many times...nice enough fellow. If he really wants to strap a triple7 to his ass at 67 years of age then fill your boots; more to be pitied than laughed at because the one thing money can't buy is time-the rarest of commodities. Just sayin.

I didn't say I hold their hands. If they didn't have the credentials they wouldn't have gotten the job. But only a rube would assume they are ready to jump into a left seat here coming off a Beech 1900. I came from military jets myself and it took at least two years before I felt ready to take on a command in the company I first worked for. I can tell you I learned a lot in that two years, and it wasn't from reading how to fly manuals. Twenty years on I'm still learning as you should be too.

Irrelevant argument. Many things change in a contract that you don't object to, and it's not like you're going to reject a pay raise is it? And as has been said countless times, this isn't a contractual issue. It is a human rights issue. Every province and territory in Canada says it is as well as the CHRT in this particular case. Every industry in Canada has to comply because it is the law. And when you actually retire at 60 then the statement above will be truthful, but until then it is just an opinion that is as likely to change as not.

That's nice. I for one do not want to be discriminated against when I turn 60. The law's on my side.

Perhaps you should notify Transport Canada.

I'm afraid actual studies prove you wrong. But if that does occur to an individual then check rides and medicals will have to be up to the job of discovering it...just like it should be now. If someone is physically incapable or has lost the competence to do the job then no one will argue that they should have their certificate revoked. But there is absolutely no evidence supporting your blanket statement above. Quite the opposite.

pitotman
Hmm I’ve only been flying AC aircraft for over 30 years so I couldn’t possible know as much about the airline as you do.

Tan,

I never proclaimed to know more than anyone, let alone you sir. I have been on Med to long haul for the last 10 years. As I stated in my opinion from what I have witnessed there is a noticeable decrease in pilot's ability to do the job as they get older...I also flew 4 of those years in either Japan or Rep of Taiwan. Both allow pilots to fly past 60 and on numerous occasions on both of those contracts pilots sleeping was more prevalent in the over 58 crowd than the younger pilots...!

"If you’re serious about improving your take home pay why are you hiding out in Vancouver the most senior base? "

Not sure why you put the above comment...I am not hiding out anywhere. When Air Canada hired me they placed me in this base. The fact that it happens to be a Sr. base is irrelevant. This is where my home has been since I immigrated and that is unlikely to change for any reason! If I was in this job for the money I would have stayed at my last contract job which was one of the highest paying contracts in the world.

"I’ve never fallen asleep in my seat on any aircraft however I’ve noticed all the young lions hang out in business class whenever they can or can’t wait to get into the bunk because they didn’t get their proper rest before reporting for duty."

That is great for you and obviously your the type of pilot who takes good care of yourself and brings a professional attitude to the flight deck and that is to be applauded. But one only has to sit in the bar at the Danubius to see that most do not share your enthusiasm.

If you can honestly say that you never burnt the candle at both ends when you were younger than again I applaud you. But I would venture that the younger demographics at Air Canada these days take better care of their bodies than our forefathers over the last 75 years.



"I would suggest that you put a rag in it before you make a bigger fool of yourself."

I am a fool because I have an opinion against fly till ya die so be it. I'd rather be a fool than a hypocrite.


PitotFool

It is really interesting how many pilots think that being over the age of sixty means one becomes less competent and less suited to flying an airplane.

It is even more interesting to read this.
I guess those of us who maintained competency past the age of 60 are really fortunate huh?

I retired at 70 because I wanted to enjoy what ever years I have left without all the B.S. involved in aviation. For sure it was not because I was no longer flying to a satisfactory standard, unless those who were doing my check rides were falsifying the paper work.

Oh, by the way the flying I was doing was far more demanding of flying skills than managing a big jet.

pitotman

quote

""If you’re serious about improving your take home pay why are you hiding out in Vancouver the most senior base? "

Not sure why you put the above comment...I am not hiding out anywhere. When Air Canada hired me they placed me in this base. The fact that it happens to be a Sr. base is irrelevant. This is where my home has been since I immigrated and that is unlikely to change for any reason! If I was in this job for the money I would have stayed at my last contract job which was one of the highest paying contracts in the world."

end of quote

With that statement if you don’t understand what I said I have to question if you’re even an AC cruise pilot. In short you could bid out of YVR at any time to improve your lot. Perhaps actually flying an airplane might improve your attitude..

Most pilots at Air Canada choose a base/aircraft/seat below what they could hold for a myriad of valid reasons. For them though wailing about career stagnation is disingenuous. If it really meant that much to them they would bid the next higher position the moment their seniority could hold it.

Reading this thread, here's my observations:

Clunkdriver is the coolest, classiest guy on here. :D

Ray767 is a pompous ass. Sort of a Charles Emerson Winchester type.

Same for engfireleft, but more of a Frank Burns type.

Wonder how they got the nickname 'skygods'? :oh:

Pragmatic realism and recognition of contemporary societal values might not be cool to some people, but it is a lot smarter. Committing everything to keep outmoded and illegal practices in the face of inexorable change is not.

The personal attacks that have characterized this issue are a disgrace as is the blanket of silence enforced over anybody supporting the elimination of mandatory retirement by ACPA and at least one other aviation website.

This is only going to end one way, and how we as individuals and as a group conduct ourselves will not change the outcome because this is not simply an Air Canada issue. It does however put our character on display for better or for worse.

Frank Burns eats worms.

Stop eating your young.:= You were once young too. Retire somewhere cheap. Forget about Victoria, already.

Melodrama. I think you'll find your world won't end and you might actually get a full pension at the end of your traumatic and unsatisfactory career.

Air Canada Age 60 Limit To End
 

Tan,

I didn't miss your point mate...........my point is this...Where in the above text do I complain about my pay....Dude I can assure you I would not move to YYZ for all the marbles in the toy box so you can have them. I know exactly how much of a financial penalty I am paying buy living in Vancouver and I gladly accept it.

I have had family members have their human rights and civil rights violated and I take particular offense to a bunch of greedy airline brats complaining about your rights....At least with Buck in Vancouver we are under no illusions as to why he wants to come back....hell he has a 24 year old bride who needs taking care of and those little blue pills only go so far!!

I would respect your group a little more if they came out and announced "Heh its about money, the need to still work, or whatever.........

But human rights..........come on man give your head a shake! Thirty years you have had with this airline Tan I wonder why you are so set on staying on another year what is it 1.1 million or is it just a million of your rights that are being violated.............

I am done with you lot...I honestly can say I wish you all a happy, healthy, safe and long retirement.........nothing more nothing less! Just hope ya take you blinders off to enjoy it!


pitotman

I see you chose to ignore the rest of my statement. Read it once more, its relevant too.
What makes you think my career is traumatic and unsatisfactory? I'm actually one of the lucky ones who got out of Canada.
I'm very satisfied with my career, and I'm not planning to eat my young in the dying days of it. In fact, I plan to retire as early as possible. As Clunkflyer wisely said, one shouldn't confuse what they do with who they are.

I didn't forget the rest of your statement, I just didn't respond to it because in 12 short words you made three incorrect assumptions. I'm still a long ways from retirement, I will be retiring somewhere reasonably cheap and it won't be Victoria.

Since your life has gotten so much better now that you've left Canada for (correct me if I'm wrong) that bastion of human rights UAE, why are you in this debate anyway? It doesn't effect you.

OOOOOOOHHHHHH Gooooody!
I'm overjoyed I've drawn such a master-debater into this (melo)drama!
We can delve into your 'reasonably cheap' retirement villa for the insane at a later date.
Is that you, Dick?(credit to GK)