Chuck, it's not the flying that's difficult, it's the decision making. Solid decision making relies very heavily upon ones experience base. Someone with 1000hrs hasn't been there and seen that to the degree that they're able to safely fly a king air 200 in a typical canadian usage.

Funny story .. I was having a conversation with a former co-worker, we were discussing profile decents used for the Curtiss C46, a 3000 hour flight instructor butts into the conversation with "there is a much better way to figure out profile descent, here's what I use on the 172 ...". Gimme a break! We couldn't help but laugh til it hurt.

O.K. sepia I give up, you guys in Canada need lots of time to learn to make good decisions to fly a turbine so I guess I might as well just shrug my shoulders and accept the fact that aviation has become far to complex for me to understand.

You be careful out there cause you might not be as lucky as my generation who did not have proper training on how to think. :ok:

So lets let this one rest as we are just to far apart on this thing. :ugh:

Great, glad you've seen the light.

:)

Yeh, I guess I have finally seen the light sepia, to bad I didn't know all this stuff back in the early seventies when I first started to fly turbine airplanes and helicopters, I may not be very smart sepia, but you gotta admit I've been lucky to have survived. :E

It has been wonderful to take a vacation from aviation, unfortunately I will still have to do a few more hours before I can quit forever.

Commuting from Canada to Europe and Africa and all the other corners of the globe for the last ten years is getting to be more than I care to put up with especially all the madness since 911.

I can't count the number of times I have longed for the relatively safe and easy flying in Canada over the past decade dealing with things weather wise that Canada never sees such as the Sand storms of Africa and the ITCZ alll around the world with real thnderstorms and generally little or no weather information.

IFR in Canada is childs play compared to dealing with dozens of language problems and the lack of nav aids and communication common in third world countries. Not to mention the real risk of getting your ass shot off in many of the countries we have been flying in.

Anyhow I ain't done yet as there is still a few hours left in this old dog.

By the way I did have to comply with all the human factors, PDM, CRM and all that stuff in Europe over the past years so I do have a bit of insite into new age flying...So I'm betting that all that how to think training combined with the horse shoe I have up my ass I'm almost as safe as todays pilots.

Chuck

:D :D :D :D

Chuck...Check Your PM's

It is always better to be lucky than good.Many a good pilot has gotten unlucky and met an early end.
The harder i work the luckier i get :} :}

You do not need a lot of time to fly an airplane only the right training ,and if you follow the rules they will keep you safe so you can live to enjoy more flying.I have flown with some high time idiots and some low time pilots who showed me that the correct training is more important than a thick log book.

A couple more comments on this time thing.

There is no doubt that proper training by a teacher who was properly trained and has the experience and airmanship to give proper training is essential, however some learn and retain better than others.

An idiot with training will always be accident prone.

An idiot trained by a teacher lacking in the ability to teach and lacking in flying skills and airmanship just makes for a more problimatic idiot.

Personally I believe that a lot of the problems with poor flight instruction is due to the lack of experience and flying skills by many flight instructors.

You generally get what you pay for.

Chuck E.

I tend to agree with Chuck. What is this big deal about the complexity of turbine operation....it is absolute nonsense. We are talking about piloting skills here and @1000 hrs,you should by all accounts be sharp at the controls of any aircraft as long as you have done a conversion to type. It also depends on what type of flying was done for 1000 hrs. I have seen many cabbage patch flight instructors with well over 1000 hours and they are not particularly good fliers due to their lack of experience compared to 300 hr bush pilots with Cessna Caravan turbine ratings (I was one:))

The young guns tend to go ooooooh and aaaaah when they speak of advanced turbine complexity such as one would find on the PC12. Get a good pilot onto a conversion to type and get used to the high altitudes, pressurization, speed and avionics during a relatively straight forward conversion to type and away you go. A 200 hr wonderboy with good aptitude could do it.

Jump off the high horses boys, it is just another aircraft;)

And Sepia....you would do well to listen to the words of the wise...you might actually learn something instead of being so cocky and full of yourself. Guys like you will learn the hard way and end up with your head stuck up your ass!

Springbok, an artist is judged by the quality of their paintings.

And generally you can identify a pilots background and knowledge by their posts. :E

I came and had a peek cos Chuck usually has something entertaining to say :) And you haven't let me down.

Meantime, I think something has gone awry with all the dinging and donging back and forth. "V" originally said "single pilot charter", not single engine charter, so the argument is moot. Could be single pilot jet, turbo-prop or piston operation, I guess.

The subject of how many hours it takes to be profficient in any given airplane is always good for an entertaining discussion.

Fortunately when the western cowboys became a thing of the past there arose another hero on the horizon to take the cowboys place as a hero icon.

It is easy to see how the first pilots won the admiration of the public because they dared to go where no man had ever been, flying through the air like birds. We have to give these early aviators full credit for mastering a completely new disipline and learning how to control the early unreliable and sometimes unstable flying machines.

However to give the hero icon to todays pilots is sort of stretching things as todays aircraft are very reliable and easy to fly and navigate from place to place.

I get quite a chuckle out of how often I hear pilots thumping the mantra that it takes milleniums to master todays mostly automated flying machines.

Can someone explain how the military can train a jet fighter pilot to fly something like an F18 in several hundred hours, yet there is a mindset that someone with a thousand hours commercial flying can't fly a xxxkin turbo prop?

Anyhow I am pasting a picture of Wilbur my co-pilot, Wilbur has pretty well mastered attitudes and movements and wants to have a go at learning how to punch in an autopilot on a turbo Prop.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...h/P1010671.jpg

Now there is an example of a real pilot. :D

Chuck Ellsworth

I like the stripes! Does he wear an oversized watch too? Our co-pilot is Jenny, as in Curtis Jenny, and her best friend is GeeBee.... They haven't ventured into stripes yet, tho' they've both been flying, one in a Citabria, the other in a Pacer. And Jenny loves to watch the geese and the aeroplanes flying overhead.

I think the first pilots to grace the skies really were heroes. Their chances of survival were not great, yet they still went back up for more. Nowadays, tho' the accident rate is always too high, the chances of survival and the availability of aircraft makes flying a much more everyday thing to do.

In the same time it took me to do 1000 hours in a 152/172, my cousin did 400 hours in a Tornado. Ever so slightly more expensive, therefore every second of every hour flown was extremely intense. Well, thats what he told me, anyway.....

Chuck,

The training is secondary to the attitude of the person receiving the training.
The old adage is true, There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but no old and bold pilots.

Flyer

And you and I have seen our fair share of "bad artists" on other sites, have we not.

Hi folks,

in calgarry at the moment, anyone i should drop a line??
can you use a US license in canada? i'm booked in for my IR in Seattle during Jan.

Cheers for all the replies so far guys.

V

V

FAA won't get you anywhere in Canada. But if you're in YYC and looking I would go check a few...

Kenn Borek, North Cariboo, Sunwest, Bar XH are hiring regularly right now for all types. Lots of oil patch charter work out of YYC now... Pretty much every operator in Alberta is looking for guys. Try AltaFlights, Swanberg and Dynamic too. If you head into Northern AB you could try Peace Air, Northern Air, Central AB Airways and more.

But again - you are not going to get hired at any of these spots without a Canadian CPL/IFR and the right to live/workin Canada. But you could g take a look and see if someone will talk to you...


Cat -

I agree with your comments.

Sepia -

What is your background? were you made to feel little as a co-pilot by your captain and now feel somehow special that you got an upgrade?

PC12 have got to be the simplest airplane out there - auto everything and you don't even have to do a V1 cut during your ride! Use the checklist and let the thing fly itself!

As for high density IFR ops - personally I had the radio thing worked out pretty well by the time my CPL/MIFR was done and never had much of a problem liasing with ATC - I don't think it would be too difficult for someone with 1000 hrs to manage... Maybe you had a tough time? Or maybe it falls back to your self esteem issues?:{

altiplano,

cheers for the info on YYC. anywhere you'd recommend for the conversion to Canadian? is there much involved to convert?

cheers!

V

Now, altiplano, settle down. This isn't Avcanada, you know. Things are done differently over here at Pprune. You're amongst professionals. Regardless how much we may agree with you.:=