Canada or HKG?
 

Hi to all,

If you had the option to go work for Air Canada or Cathay Pacific, what would you choose and why?

I'm curious to hear from AC pilots especially.

Happy landings.

Do you think AC pilots are going to tell you that they would rather be at CX? At the end of the day, I rate jobs on two things. Pay and Lifestyle. CX wins hands down on pay. Lifestyle however is a toss up. For some living in Hong Kong and using it is a home base to travel the world is an exciting prospect. For others the idea of leaving Canada is terrifying. If you fall into the 1st group, than its CX hands down. If not, then I guess AC it is.

Cheers

Suprise AC driver here I agree with 777300ER . Air Canada and Westjet are for those that can not leave Canada. I know several current and past AC pilots who have left and are glad they did more money better life style . Two I know have left in the last four monhs. I know a couple at CX who wish they were here so it is a matter of choice . If I was 25 again I would be in Europe with a major and yes I know the costs I'am there four times a month still better life style .

Bobrun,

There is a thread on this exact topic on the fragrant harbour forum that dates back about 2-3 months, you should do a search and find it as it was a long and sometimes heated debate on AC vs.CX.It was somewhat CX biased as it was not on the Canadian forum so it might be interesting to have it here also.

Before we get into it though, the most important thing to know is what are you looking for in your life and carreer?

Both places are very good options for different reasons but once again....what drives you ? (and your family)

It would seem that those in favor of CX based their decision on $$$ mainly....

Looking at the two pay scales, CX does pay better. However, if you take a base in Canada (with CX) the difference isn't that much it would seem. Also, if you take into consideration the quick command upgrade time that one can anticipate with AC if hired at this time (800 retirements at AC...), you could actually be ahead with AC (compared to CX on a Canadian base) in 5-10 years time.

But maybe I'm missing something....

:confused:

Read up on the rapidly dropping stds of living in Hong Kong, lowest grade of food at unreal prices, property went up by 30% in last 1 yr.
Be care full !

Just ask many of those that own property in HK, which is paid by the company how they feel? 30% increase........of course, the last ten years has provided many surprises in the market.

Too bad Toronto is the main base for AC......if YVR was it, then I'd say AC would be a closer second, but Cathay is such a superior company over the sprectrum. No comparison in my mind....

This is easy. CX 744 YVR based. nuf said

Thunderbird4,

I have to agree with you! However, how long does it takes before being able to get a base in YVR after starting as S/O in HKG? Is 5-6 years still a good guess?

...you will not be uprading at AC in 5-10 years unless its on the RJ.

Trader,

Yes you will be in the left seat and no ,not on the CRJ as they are leaving.You have great chances of being Capt on the EMJ in 5 years or less.
Today , as we speak, having just gone through CCAA, a nasty career damaging merger,SARS, 9-11, in other words the darkest time in our history , the most junior EMJ captain has 5.5 years in the company.That's before another 45 EMJ come on line, not to mention new widebodies and 120 retirements per year.

I think that it will be like the late nineties when DC9 captains had 4 years in the company and the junior 320 capt had 5-6 years.

I think that if you join today 4 years down the road you will be making the choice to either go FO on a widebody or Capt.

I am with Cathay after leaving Air Canada.

For me, the best thing Air Canada ever did was go bankrupt. This forced us junior people to rethink our career path which led me to Cathay.

With the exception of staff travel, Cathay is far and above Air Canada in every category.

Air Canada is a very safe, predictable career. I am far more pessimistic than meaw above, but if you are happy in Toronto, you will have reasonable prospects for promotion, albeit while earning a very mediocre wage. If you want to live in Vancouver, you will commute for many years before you can hold a relief pilot position on base. From that point, you will have little chance for promotion for god knows how long.

Good luck.

Penske,

I am glad to hear that the move was good for you.I am not saying Cathay is not a good option for some, far from it,for some it might be a much better move (assuming you have offers from both on the table). However, even though you may think CX is superior to AC, I don't disagree with you because I have not worked at CX, but bear in mind that in this debate there is much much more than just the airline in question but where and how you will live, wether it be HKG or a commute to the U.S.You have to look at the whole package , also what kind of labor laws do you have there , unions , etc....

Bobrun, once again it's all about what you want from life and your career.Both options are excellent but very different and unless you are like Penske and have to resign AC, you always have the option to come back to AC if you want and they are Hiring.
I know guys who went to CX and love it.I also know guys who went there after C3 went under and are miserable (not necessarily because of the company but because they miss Canada, their family , friends).
I also know some ex CX guys here at AC and none regret coming back. Again it could be for you or not but you have to tell us what drives you

Bobrun,

By the way how old are you and what kind of job do you have know?What about family status?

meaw,


Dude,

I work for AC and I am over on a contract with China Airlines at the moment. I have ALOT of friends at Cathay and half love it half hate it.......the bottom line is "know what’s important to you and your family" we pay a heavy price to live in Canada and I for one do not have a problem paying that. I have spent the last five years between yvr and Asia and I can tell you in my view you can not put a price on the healthy living and lifestyle we enjoy in Canada.

Know that if you got CX you will potentially make a lot of money and you will potentially come out ahead........you could also be fired like the 49ers and then it would all be trivial anyways. CX offers more remuneration and AC offers job security!

CX pays less than CAL as a 744 freighter FO but the housing is the difference.......but ya still have to live in HK. We have had a couple guys leave AC in the last few years to CX and I know a lot of them and I am sure I know the reasoning. CX is a financially viable entity .......where old AC is just an ENTITY! I think the biggest determining factor here is how old are you and what are you looking for.............? My line of thought is......... go to the first one that gives you the job and make the best out of either situation...!

My best mate went to CX as I joined AC and if I can say I am definitely the happier of the two…………

Working for CAL as an FO would certainly be challenging on all fronts....not a postion one would envy. I would hope you could get back to AC ASAP.


"CX pays less than CAL as a 744 freighter FO but the housing is the difference"

That is completely incorrect. CX for the same postion ie: FO would pay far more than than an FO with CAL. Only a very junior SO with CX would make less than a CAL FO.

"you could also be fired like the 49ers and then it would all be trivial anyways. CX offers more remuneration and AC offers job security!"

On the other hand, this statement is true and worth good consideration. You are a lot more exposed as an expat.

Meaw said.

"I also know guys who went there after C3 went under and are miserable (not necessarily because of the company but because they miss Canada, their family , friends)."

C3 went bankrupt !! You must be kidding.....from C3 to Cathay ? Ya, I'm sure it would be a terrible sacrifice.....missing friends and family is one issue but I know a few that are there, and there are only a handful and they all feel very thankful for the opportunity. One is almost ready for FRT'er command.....

I would think in a few years AC will be looking much better and perhaps quicker commands are forthcoming on the EMB'r, but if you want to live in YVR it would be a different story.

To each this own and as mentioned, make the best of any opportunity. It would be nice to seen good expansion and movement in every airline....

Saltaire,

I 'm sure they're grateful and all, but I will give you an example of one of them's reason for unhappyness.......Imagine you're in HKG living it up with CX .......then someone from your family (mother,father , sister etc....) falls ill with something like cancer or one of your close friends and you want to be there for your family but you cant unless you have vacation or quit.

Then you put things in perspective.......even if it did get you a command on the freighter

Thanks for all your inputs. I have no doubts that both are great airlines.

Living in Canada is probably AC main advantage.......but then again YVR and YYZ are two bases with CX, and would be available after several years if home sick.....

Meaw, to answer your question, single and 31.

Happy landings.

Saltaire.

You are incorrect my friend.

The pay at CX as a freighter FO is (albeit very marginally) less than a CAL FO.

CX Year 1 Freighter FO = $5292.00 USD/ month. (no 13th month)

CAL Year 1 FO = $5400.00 USD/ month.

Not that I'm advocating going to CAL!

$5292/mo + 15.5% provident fund + per diems of approx $100 per day.

Not sure how China Airlines compares with the extra bits.

Ah yes........the Freighter pay, almost forgot about that. Sorry, speaking of mainline.......

In any case, even the Frieghter pay, which was a real problem when it was introduced, as Penske mentioned, just tipped the scales for CX, but I guess it's bacically the same. To put it in perspective, a B scale FO mainline makes the same as a Freighter Captain.......

Meaw, your point is very specific but I do understand and it could be an issue but......

To answer your question Bobrun, especially if you're single, then there is no doubt you should want to work for CX.......believe me, I've worked for both. The reality is that you'll take whatever comes first and likely make the best of it. They are both top international airlines.