AC and WJ upgrade time
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AC and WJ upgrade time
Hello folks,
What is the current timeline to upgrade for F/Os in AC and WJ?
Thanks!
What is the current timeline to upgrade for F/Os in AC and WJ?
Thanks!
Last edited by Capt.Tiger424sqn; 4th Dec 2018 at 03:34. Reason: misleading
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That is a question that will have many variables involved. Currently there isn't much movement at the top at WJ and their growth isn't very big other than Internationally. Actually every time Swoop gets a jet, WJ looses one. Although WJ pilots are now in the seats. Last talk was 8+ years. But they may get to 6 or so when the old dogs start retiring which given they are all my age...that will be in the next 5 years or so.
As for AC, they are hiring 400+ this year and 400+ next year and mostly due to attrition. I just found out, by a very reliable source that for the first time in AC's history they are opening up the bid for internal guys with no bid loss to the 777 and 787. Whatever they do not fill internally will go to the street. That's right direct right seat 777 and 787 for new hires. Get your resumes in boys. EMB190 and 767 will start to leave this year as well as A220 arrives.
As for AC, they are hiring 400+ this year and 400+ next year and mostly due to attrition. I just found out, by a very reliable source that for the first time in AC's history they are opening up the bid for internal guys with no bid loss to the 777 and 787. Whatever they do not fill internally will go to the street. That's right direct right seat 777 and 787 for new hires. Get your resumes in boys. EMB190 and 767 will start to leave this year as well as A220 arrives.
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How many hours is AC requiring? Still minimum ATPL for the main company? What about AC Jazz? Altough I heard it's easier to move from Encore to AC than from AC Jazz to AC.
Found a way to release before the mandatory service? If yes, PM me lol
Found a way to release before the mandatory service? If yes, PM me lol
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If you think your getting on at AC without an ATPL...dream again. Maybe a senior daddies son or daughter! But still thousands of resumes passing over AC's desk. Jazz pilots have flow through. If you came from Georgian its longer. Many WJ and Encore going to AC for the security and current upgrade time...not to mention working rules. WJ still very much works their group to the bone...(don't scream at me teal boys...heard it first hand from far too many buds there) When the pendulum shifts...who knows, but AC hiring close to a 1000 in the next 2 years. 4 years of crap pay to a nice life and most likely the best you will get in Canada.
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@ C150driver "Direct entry to 777 FO!=left
sign me up to be the lowest paid 777 FO on the planet!!"
Me thinks you are one of the millennium group that believe their right to passage is a birth right!. In our era it took 18-20 years of being with AC before you got to the right seat of a heavy. And that was after slugging bags for 3-4 years and flying in an out of very dangerous situations, all for 12K a year as a Captain. That experience may have got you hired on a regional for 30K. I would have sold my sole to get hired with AC on any equipment. Most of my comrades had 6-7000 hours when they were applying to AC.
The fact that you have to pay your dues at 48K for 4 years then go to formula...all while sleeping @ FL410 in a 777 or a 787 visiting the world... I feel so sorry for you. You should stick with your C150 in your handle...they pay real well when you turn 50!
sign me up to be the lowest paid 777 FO on the planet!!"
Me thinks you are one of the millennium group that believe their right to passage is a birth right!. In our era it took 18-20 years of being with AC before you got to the right seat of a heavy. And that was after slugging bags for 3-4 years and flying in an out of very dangerous situations, all for 12K a year as a Captain. That experience may have got you hired on a regional for 30K. I would have sold my sole to get hired with AC on any equipment. Most of my comrades had 6-7000 hours when they were applying to AC.
The fact that you have to pay your dues at 48K for 4 years then go to formula...all while sleeping @ FL410 in a 777 or a 787 visiting the world... I feel so sorry for you. You should stick with your C150 in your handle...they pay real well when you turn 50!
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Well C150driver, I have 41 years in this racket with 12 large A/C endorsements and 15K hours in my logbook... ACP for 25 years, CP, DFO and Regulatory experience...care to compare? All pilots of my era can relate to my post above...apparently you cannot! If you are going to make statements like, "lowest paid 777 on the planet", you need an education in flying and are obviously very young.
Someone needs to Google the definition of poverty in Canada. IOW, if you're going to try to make a point, avoid the use of hyperbole and stick to the facts.
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Well c150driver as I tried to point out to you this is an absolute windfall for your generation. Would you prefer slugging it out in the bush for 3-4 years then get a regional job for 5 more before getting on at a major? Not to mention you will be offered the same salary. There is a price to pay for everything in life. A doctor has to intern for low wages, an engineer works behind a senior colleague for a few years until proving his/her worth. A very wise man said once, " the only one that starts at the top is a well digger, but he is always in the hole!"
My last word on this as you seem to think that because industry has perpetuated a situation where low time pilots are getting into heavy seats that you are worth more than the rest of us who paid our dues in spades. What you do not have is the wits or experience to get yourself out of a jam when you get that job and the poop hits the fan...better look to your left...that guy that did all the required time to be there...will save your butt!
My last word on this as you seem to think that because industry has perpetuated a situation where low time pilots are getting into heavy seats that you are worth more than the rest of us who paid our dues in spades. What you do not have is the wits or experience to get yourself out of a jam when you get that job and the poop hits the fan...better look to your left...that guy that did all the required time to be there...will save your butt!
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As I said, you are so off on your opinion of me. I have turned down AC because I don’t want to perpetuate the low salaries in Canada. Also because there is no way I could live my lifestyle on four years of flat pay, or even the next few years on formula pay. I didn’t exactly start flying yesterday, or in this millennium for that matter.
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As I said, you are so off on your opinion of me. I have turned down AC because I don’t want to perpetuate the low salaries in Canada. Also because there is no way I could live my lifestyle on four years of flat pay, or even the next few years on formula pay. I didn’t exactly start flying yesterday, or in this millennium for that matter.
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It's an amazing opportunity for guys in their 20's and early 30's who haven't been in the industry too long.
For those of us who have been "paying our dues " for 20+ years it's an insult. Financially it won't make sense for many. 4 years at low pay when you have 30 ahead of you averages out well. I'm hoping to retire in less than 15 years. Those 4 years kill the average.
For those of us who have been "paying our dues " for 20+ years it's an insult. Financially it won't make sense for many. 4 years at low pay when you have 30 ahead of you averages out well. I'm hoping to retire in less than 15 years. Those 4 years kill the average.
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It's true the 4 year flat is horrendous... stolen from our ranks by Raitt and Harper who bought the bull**** bluff from Rovinescu in 2012.
It's also likely close to true "lowest paid 777 FOs on the planet" or at least in the civilized world...
Many of us paid our dues to get here... that's the game... the cycle... doesn't mean you can think less of those who expedited through the 'lower' echelons of the business without getting too much sh!t on their shoes... I know lots of the top senior guys at AC who came here almost ab initio... and sure they oiled on the DC8 or L1011 or 727 or whatever for 6 or 8 years before they got a flying seat on the -9 for another 8 or 10 before they got on the 747 right seat or whatever... but guaranteed they were making an adjusted income higher all along than what any FO in the company makes today with affordable home prices and reasonable COL... let alone flat pay in YYZ or YVR... and now some of these guys are sitting at the top of the sh!t pile for an extra 5 years... and they joined when they were 25 or under... I have a buddy senior to me, told me he made more as a 747FO 20 years ago (capped 75 hour months too) than in any position he was in at the airline until just recently as a 767CA with a bunch of OT. Any position at the airline ain't what it used to be...
I get what you're saying 737NOTGOOD... some junior guys had it easy to get here recently and need to keep the perspective of the challenges some of us went through to get here even 10 years ago... and that's the cycle... a recession will come, a downturn will come and it will be 20 years in the business just to be a captain on a -8 again... but here ain't what it used to be either... you can't say "lucky you... grin and bare it"... we all have to respect the position from top to bottom and realize it doesn't matter where you were or, how long it took you to join AC, you are here now and we all need to be making it the best we can.
It's a good job - despite the 4 year flat - doesn't mean it can't be better... doesn't mean it hasn't fallen behind from where we were or where our peers are at... we can't forget that because some joining are only 5 years in the business or whatever.
It's also likely close to true "lowest paid 777 FOs on the planet" or at least in the civilized world...
Many of us paid our dues to get here... that's the game... the cycle... doesn't mean you can think less of those who expedited through the 'lower' echelons of the business without getting too much sh!t on their shoes... I know lots of the top senior guys at AC who came here almost ab initio... and sure they oiled on the DC8 or L1011 or 727 or whatever for 6 or 8 years before they got a flying seat on the -9 for another 8 or 10 before they got on the 747 right seat or whatever... but guaranteed they were making an adjusted income higher all along than what any FO in the company makes today with affordable home prices and reasonable COL... let alone flat pay in YYZ or YVR... and now some of these guys are sitting at the top of the sh!t pile for an extra 5 years... and they joined when they were 25 or under... I have a buddy senior to me, told me he made more as a 747FO 20 years ago (capped 75 hour months too) than in any position he was in at the airline until just recently as a 767CA with a bunch of OT. Any position at the airline ain't what it used to be...
I get what you're saying 737NOTGOOD... some junior guys had it easy to get here recently and need to keep the perspective of the challenges some of us went through to get here even 10 years ago... and that's the cycle... a recession will come, a downturn will come and it will be 20 years in the business just to be a captain on a -8 again... but here ain't what it used to be either... you can't say "lucky you... grin and bare it"... we all have to respect the position from top to bottom and realize it doesn't matter where you were or, how long it took you to join AC, you are here now and we all need to be making it the best we can.
It's a good job - despite the 4 year flat - doesn't mean it can't be better... doesn't mean it hasn't fallen behind from where we were or where our peers are at... we can't forget that because some joining are only 5 years in the business or whatever.