EVA Air's 777 hits pole during taxi at Toronto
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EVA Air's 777 hits pole during taxi at Toronto
EVA Air Boeing 777-300 struck pole when taxiing out of de-icing area at Toronto - Right wing severely damaged - Aviation24.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzDz5yxyBEE
Taxiing at an airport covered with snow can be quite challenging. Most probably the reason the airplane was not on the center-line and hit the pole.
How many of you find it quite challenging during the snow season to taxi? Any specific techniques pilots use? Taxing slow helps, but still can be tough when the taxi markings, signs are all covered up.
BTW, when you hit another airplane, or pole, don't you feel a thud? On the JFK incident with Egypt Air and Virgin, seems like Egypt air didn't even realized they hit the Virgin until the tower told them to stop!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzDz5yxyBEE
Taxiing at an airport covered with snow can be quite challenging. Most probably the reason the airplane was not on the center-line and hit the pole.
How many of you find it quite challenging during the snow season to taxi? Any specific techniques pilots use? Taxing slow helps, but still can be tough when the taxi markings, signs are all covered up.
BTW, when you hit another airplane, or pole, don't you feel a thud? On the JFK incident with Egypt Air and Virgin, seems like Egypt air didn't even realized they hit the Virgin until the tower told them to stop!
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It wasn't snowing, just cold. There was no snow cover.
The FR track shows the jink to the right just after turning NE on V after deicing. He missed the first two light poles on his right, but not the third.
V is coincident with deice Pad 1 but deicing ops were not happening on V so the only taxi lane that should have been lit is V.
Looks like there was some confusion in the flight deck and they took a turn onto 1S which should have been unlit.
Code D and larger must use the centre deice pads. Code C and smaller may use the N & S pads to allow more capacity.
The FR track shows the jink to the right just after turning NE on V after deicing. He missed the first two light poles on his right, but not the third.
V is coincident with deice Pad 1 but deicing ops were not happening on V so the only taxi lane that should have been lit is V.
Looks like there was some confusion in the flight deck and they took a turn onto 1S which should have been unlit.
Code D and larger must use the centre deice pads. Code C and smaller may use the N & S pads to allow more capacity.
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3:25 into YouTube video crew asks for check of aircraft OK, we don't feel aircraft touch anything, and just a little shimmy.
Last edited by number0009; 4th Dec 2017 at 16:23. Reason: photo
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This is the Central Deice Facility so there are a lot of personnel and vehicles maneuvering around aircraft, often in very bad weather, so adequate illumination is required. It was a very large deviation from his assigned route.
Interesting that the current* Google sat. photo shows no evidence (shadows) of light poles along the south shoulder of V/icing 1C, and a construction project (sand piles, and dirt tracked onto the tarmac) at the point where they should be.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/To...!4d-79.6248197
Were those particular poles a recent addition?
*meaning - out-of-date by up to a year
https://www.google.com/maps/place/To...!4d-79.6248197
Were those particular poles a recent addition?
*meaning - out-of-date by up to a year
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The light poles are in that image. The bases are in that thin strip of grass. There was a construction project there earlier this year to build a retaining wall but the image was taken while taxiway D was being rehabilitated.
Looks like the damage stops at the main spar - fortunate since if it penetrated further there would likely have been a massive fuel leak.
Still appears it'll be an expensive fix - lead edge slats look trashed, and I'd expect damage to the nearby leading edge actuators - and the spar will need to be thoroughly evaluated and possibly repaired.
Still appears it'll be an expensive fix - lead edge slats look trashed, and I'd expect damage to the nearby leading edge actuators - and the spar will need to be thoroughly evaluated and possibly repaired.
Good point to remember is; NEVER LET ANYONE PRESSURISE YOU.
If in doubt, stop and assess. ATC may be telling you to move, the 'Follow Me' may be telling you to move.
DON'T until YOU are happy to go.
If in doubt, stop and assess. ATC may be telling you to move, the 'Follow Me' may be telling you to move.
DON'T until YOU are happy to go.
Great point Basil.
When everybody from passengers, ramp personnel, company supervisors, maintenance and ATC are telling you to go, ignore them and ask yourself "Why should I go?"
When everybody from passengers, ramp personnel, company supervisors, maintenance and ATC are telling you to go, ignore them and ask yourself "Why should I go?"
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Firstly responding to the Egypt Air incident, if your nose wheel hits the lights on the taxiway centreline you hear a thud. So you would certainly hear and feel something hitting another aircraft.
Secondly responding to special technique for operating on snow covered airports. Yes, SLOW DOWN. Not sure of the technical name but I think that technique/procedure is called Common Sense.
Secondly responding to special technique for operating on snow covered airports. Yes, SLOW DOWN. Not sure of the technical name but I think that technique/procedure is called Common Sense.
Wings are a long way from the cockpit however...
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65m of wingspan really allows for one thing. Stay on the centreline. Oversteer turns. That's it.
Taxiing and ground ops technique is a 15+ page chapter in our 77W flight crew training manual, and for good reason.
If you don't know where you are, hold position. Get a follow me, get wing walkers. If the airport tells you there are none: Still hold position. Get anybody.
Better safe than bumping into something. Also, on the tape ATC tells them they're not in position, so clearly that was the clue where they shouldn't have taxied.
Taxiing and ground ops technique is a 15+ page chapter in our 77W flight crew training manual, and for good reason.
If you don't know where you are, hold position. Get a follow me, get wing walkers. If the airport tells you there are none: Still hold position. Get anybody.
Better safe than bumping into something. Also, on the tape ATC tells them they're not in position, so clearly that was the clue where they shouldn't have taxied.
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I notice that the first statement from ATC is that they have information from the de-icing facility personnel that the aircraft is not on the centerline. Based on the likely amount of time that it would take to taxi through this area and the amount of time it would take to relay the message to ATC, I suspect that the pole strike had already happened by the time that the aircraft was given the warning by ATC.
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Of course you are completely correct Basil. No plane ever got hurt when the park brake was set. But! in the real daily life out there, we do pretty well have to trust others to do their job, such as the pushback driver for example. And after all, we do follow ATC instructions in the air when we can not see the other traffic.
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I notice that the first statement from ATC is that they have information from the de-icing facility personnel that the aircraft is not on the centerline. Based on the likely amount of time that it would take to taxi through this area and the amount of time it would take to relay the message to ATC, I suspect that the pole strike had already happened by the time that the aircraft was given the warning by ATC.
Adding further to this statement. It appears from the information that I have gleaned from the internet, that the pole was knocked over and the aircraft continued on for a little while with the lamp from the top of the pole having detatched from it and remaining in/on the wing. It was later removed by emergency crews.
That might explain why it appears that the crew stated that they might have barely felt something but didn't think it was a collision and continued on for a while after the collision until notified of a problem by ATC.
I think it is very easly to not realize that you have hit something under certain circumstances.