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XC trip - Circle across Canada and the US

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XC trip - Circle across Canada and the US

Old 25th Jan 2016, 13:23
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XC trip - Circle across Canada and the US

Fellow Ppruners,
This is not a new idea nor a difficult one to execute I suppose but I'm really looking for tips and suggestions that will help make this trip successful. Appreciate any guidance.

The Trip
I'm planning on mapping out a route across Canada and US on a 5000 NM XC trip. I'm thinking to begin in Toronto flying west to alberta before heading south down the Cali coastline, across to texas and then back north to toronto. Not sure how many states I will cross at the moment.'

Equipment - Thinking of doing this in a C172.

If all goes well, i'm thinking the trip should take me less than 2 weeks (flying 5-6 hours a day)

Has anyone done extended XC trips like this before? I know people have done solo trips and crossed the earth, but what should i expect?

What equipment / accessories are must haves. Best GPS, considerations?

any thoughts would be useful.
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Old 25th Jan 2016, 18:11
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I ferried a Chipmunk from Ontario to Los Angeles a few summers ago. It took about 4 days (perhaps 5?) and that included two half-days down due to weather/maintenance. The Chipmunk is obviously a lot slower than a C172 (I think we averaged about 70 miles or so per hour!) and we flew at least 3 legs a day with only time for supper and a quick breakfast at each stop. I don't remember what we did for lunches, but probably granola bars/FBO snacks, etc.

I'd completed all the planning -- using paper maps (and downloaded digital airport facility directories on my phone... this was before I had an iPad and a ForeFlight subscription!) -- before we left and the trip went almost exactly as planned. Pretty exhausted by the end, but some fabulous open-cockpit flying, great views, met some amazing people, and got to re-visit folks/FBOs from previous flying jobs in the US.

As a caveat - at the time I was working as an aerial survey pilot which had me flying from job site to job site and had tons of ferry-style flying under my belt, quite a bit of it in the US. I had several thousand hours by then, and I knew my personal limits, how to be super efficient at each stop (an hour max, usually less was planned) and exactly how flight planning and stuff like that worked. All this being in turbine machines.

The aircraft added a special element to it, obviously, because it being quite vintage with a big old iron engine and flying in the heat of the summer, I needed to plan for appropriate oil at the stops (the owner was running it on Mineral), worst case scenarios (i.e. route planning based on an engine failure any time!), and the limited performance, climb/speed, etc. There was no way in hell I'd be crossing the mountains at SLC and BOI like during previous trips in better performing a/c! so I went all the way around via El Paso. (Loved TX, BTW, if you get a chance to stop in Pecos, it's a fabulous overnight with a lovely FBO and owners.) I'd also planned hangarage at each overnight, but that may not be practical for you. (I had the advantage of the new owner of the aircraft being quite well off - he was able to pay for this to ensure his new "baby" didn't get damaged on the trip )

The awesome thing about flying in the US is once you land at the FBO, they have special rates at hotels and usually courtesy vehicles - or someone will drop you off at the very least. They love General Aviation down there, and you will likely find you're very welcomed, as opposed to Canadian airports where you're often left to your own resources.

I'll send you a pm with a link to the trip log - maybe you'll get some inspiration and insight.

Good luck with planning!
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Old 25th Jan 2016, 18:52
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thank you so much for that and thanks for the PM with a link to the blog. I will read it for sure.

I have a little under 500 hours. I did my training in the US and have a CFI rating in the US (although i have not officially done any teaching, apart from other students in my class) I also have my IR and MEL - both Canada and US.

This is more as a personal accomplishment and a sense of adventure. No real cause.

What kinda of personal equipment do you recommend?
- cell phone (extra batter packs)
- water
- change of clothes
- maps, ipad, chargers
- Empty Gatorade bottle for those unexpected p*** breaks


-
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Old 25th Jan 2016, 19:22
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If you have an iPad with ForeFlight on it, you'll be set for maps, flight planning... but of course the paper route is totally possible as well, just a bit more labour intensive... For the AFD in the USA - you can find these digitally online, so if you don't have the iPad/ForeFlight combo, you can just save those as a PDF to your phone. Worked like a charm for me. If you do use iPad/ForeFlight - there are lots of tricks to save battery life (you don't need to keep GPS tracking enabled, ensure Bluetooth off, etc) - after my company went digital, I could easily do a 3-leg day on a ferry flight on one battery charge.

I barely had any "stuff" since there was no baggage area, just a small area under each seat. Because of this I (reluctantly) decided to wear a flight suit (had some basic gear in the pockets - Leatherman, Clif bars, whistle, small first aid kit, signal mirror, etc plus passport, pared down wallet & license) and just wore a quick-dry T-shirt/shorts underneath, which were easily washed in the hotel sink at night and dried before morning. Had a reasonably nice looking set or two of regular clothes (layering is key), extra socks, etc. Ball cap. Sunscreen.... I also brought my personal ELT that was issued to me from my survey job, just in case. (You could look into getting a SPOT device or something a bit more portable/cheap). Earplugs - dual purpose - for minimizing noise under the headset plus to use if you want to have a reasonable sleep at a cheap hotel...

I'd recommend a large thermos or reusable water bottle or two - easily refillable at FBOs and most will give away bottled water anyways. (Once we were all packed, we topped up to max takeoff weight by adding "emergency" water but relied on our pit stops for the day to day stuff.) Camera w/ extra batteries/charger (unless you're happy with phone pics.) Granola/protein bars (i.e. lunch replacements.) Cash....
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Old 25th Jan 2016, 19:50
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great tips - i read alot of your blog post - loved the tip about the FBo at paseo? - free burritos and icecream

are you in toronto by any chance? i would love to buy you drinks and pick your brain.. mentor??
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Old 25th Jan 2016, 20:01
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I don't live in Toronto, I just fly through it a lot.

Feel free to post here or PM with more questions, happy to help as you plan.
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Old 25th Jan 2016, 23:57
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To not do such a trip would be wrong.

Main thing is do not push weather and ask lots of questions from locals when flight planning.
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Old 26th Jan 2016, 06:08
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I did an extended XC across the US on a Piper Archer, and also did an extended trip (1+ year) on a motorcycle... w/ surprisingly a lot of similarities in planning, etc.
  • Be flexible... have a general plan / idea but keep your options open. Once underway I rarely planned more than 1 day ahead.
  • Weather changes rapidly... I got weather briefings before every flight but still had to divert mid-flight twice! FSS is your friend.
  • Give yourself extra time... maybe schedule extra days as buffer. Get-there-itis kills.
  • (On my last day I had to wait out a thunderstorm through the night before flying the last leg home -- already tired -- just to return the rental "on time". Very stupid of me!)
  • Do consult locals, but be skeptical at the same time. Lots of yahoo pilots out there.
  • If possible, schedule some non-flying days and rest up.
  • Be mindful of maintenance schedules, oil changes, etc.
In summary... 1) we tend to grossly underestimate the time required to complete extended trips; and 2) weather is king, it will dominate any plan.

For my XC, I didn't bring anything special (other than what's normally in my flight bag + extra maps). Some clothes, camera/laptop, that's it.
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Old 26th Jan 2016, 09:21
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Brings Back Old Memories

Oh to be young again! Chuck, you're absolutely correct! The 'Locals' are a great source of information and if a person is in doubt, ask questions. That should set off a few minutes of 'hangar-flying'.

Travelling through the US was always fun in a light aircraft. Things have changed, but I even had FBO managers let me sleep in the hangar. I even had the local sheriff deputy pick me up first thing in the morning and take me for breakfast at a local diner.

Before 'boring holes' in the sky, make sure that the radios and that all important transponder is working. Many years ago, I flew from YYC to Santa Cruz, CA. I was great at following maps but my transponder quit working somewhere along the route. Excitement ensued after I had landed and found that I'd gone through the arrival route for SFO at the wrong altitude and nobody could see me. (altitude reporting wasn't available then).

And as was also said...Don't push weather! There are lots of mountains on the west side. Valleys fill up with cloud at times, forcing one to 'scud run' and create a whole pile of trouble.

What fun! Just think safe!
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Old 26th Jan 2016, 13:31
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awesome advice...
i know that the wx will be the biggest challenge. I'm currently in the planning phase. I aim todo this during the month of august or early september. Still trying to decide what makes more sense. I"m thinking september since summer vacay is over and air traffic will be a bit less? am I crazy in thinking this?

I'm good with the iphone 6 camera (i'm not a big photographer but i'm sure i will capture some few shots for the blog / instagram etc)
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Old 26th Jan 2016, 15:04
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The American ATC is fantastic and will go out of their way to help you, so ask for flight following whenever you are unsure of the route in high density areas.
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Old 26th Jan 2016, 15:41
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Do you have any PIC experience in the Rockies or the Appalachians? If not, a Mountain Flying seminar and check-out would be beneficial.

The Mountain Checkout - AVweb Features Article
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Old 26th Jan 2016, 19:15
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#12

I second that. Weather and winds in the Rockies can and will easily exceed 172 performance figures on anything but a clear, calm day.
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Old 27th Jan 2016, 02:03
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Watchyourspeed, have a look at the photos of private flying thread in the Private Flying forum, you might find some inspiration there...
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Old 27th Jan 2016, 02:20
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Thanks Pilot Dar - will check out that forum..

From what I'm gathering - flying over the rockies could be challenging. Since I'm doing this solo, I may opt to fly south on the east side of the mountains to salt lake down to alberquerque to houston.

evanB - thanks for the great resource and tip about the mountain course. I dont have any PIC time flying over or near mountains... i did most of my flying in Florida and Toronto, Canada
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Old 27th Jan 2016, 05:32
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The first time I went through the Rockies ,my radios crapped out , no GPS, no NDB , no VOR ,no cell phone and the compass leaked all its fluid, and then the smoke in the valley's from forest fires made it hard to check landmarks against the chart .
Second time I had a GPS


Good times
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Old 27th Jan 2016, 13:24
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I've done a few long trips in a PA-28-151: YKF to Cali / Bay area a year and a half ago, few trips to Florida, that sort of thing, and I'm considering YKF to Sedona March break.

First: do it. The California trip was fantastic, great scenery, great experience.

Couple of things (from someone who knows just enough to be dangerous, so take with grain of salt!):
  • For sure read up on mountain flying, high elevation operations, leaning engine before takeoff, and such. Maybe talk to a local instructor just before entering the mountains?
  • Get the COPA / AOPA guide to cross border operations if you haven't done that yet, worth the membership fee just for that.
  • For customs, follow the approach of clearing US customs just after the border with a fairly short leg so your arrival time is solid. They give you a +/-15 min window. I plan to arrive just before the -15 min and circle if need be. Always call (not just fill out the computer form) and always write down the officer's name/badge no. I've had them lose the paperwork before and not expect me. The officer's name saved the day. They are really friendly if you do it right.
  • There are a couple of US wide charts available (VFR planning chart?), good for long planning.
  • Sites like skyvector.com are good too.
  • There are a couple of apps that download sectional charts to iPad, however test them carefully before flight to make sure the data is actually on the iPad not being downloaded live. I always take paper maps.

Mountains are an interesting feature of the Western half, for sure. My previous experience with mountains was the Niagara Escarpment . Read up on mountain route advice. There are a few different options. I did the MBW-OCS-Salt Lake City route on the way down. Terrain was no higher than 8500 to 9000 ish, some more like 9k-10k west of SLC in the Lake Tahoe area, but no narrow mountain valleys like in BC. In the end, not nearly as much of a challenge for the plane as I'd thought. I was "light" though, me and two younger kids.

Having said all that, I'm not an expert mountain flyer. I was also pretty cautious on weather so good conditions. But those routes didn't seem like "mountain" flying so much as high elevation terrain flying. I was never in a valley with terrain above me, at least not closer than 10 miles. BC and the "real" Rockies are a different story from what I've heard.

The way back I did Page AZ then up to CKW-MBW. I had one time the plane didn't want to climb over a ridge, presumably wind blowing over from the far side, so had to circle back. This was after departing a nearby airport (well 10 mins or so, still climbing out) and wasn't a surprise or anything.

I didn't look into the routes north of SLC, wasn't where I was headed, but seem to recall there are some do-able ones. Looking now at skyvector, the HLN-MSO-Spokane route looks rugged, but sector altitudes are only about 8500'.

FYI, the oxygen regs in the US allow up to 12.5 without oxygen, if I recall correctly. The Canadian limit of 1/2 hour above 10K is a bit restrictive for some of those routes. It could be done at 10K but some places it was more comfortable up at 12.5 just for extra margin of safety.

Grand Canyon overflight is strongly recommended, high terrain though. The special airspace restrictions there are much simpler than they look -- just fly above it all.

If you haven't already, check out airnav.com. The fuel price info is handy, but also really useful reviews and hotel / courtesy car info too. I use that to plan out how easy a lunch stop will be.

In my experience, lots of really friendly airports with good service in the US. Some completely isolated ones too. There are less airports in the mountains and SW that on the route to Florida for eg, so IMHO always take full tanks.

Make sure you have a cell phone, and check coverage in each area. I landed at a couple of places later in the evening and turned out to have no cell coverage, but got lucky with finding a local. I had bought a US roaming SIM card (forget the brand) which used AT&T. There was no coverage in a lot of the small US towns we stopped at. Locals were not surprised, other networks were better there. It might have been better to just use a roaming package on my Canadian SIM which would have picked up whatever network there was.

The post ended up longer than I'd meant... hope there is some useful info in there, or at least enthusiasm if nothing else!
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Old 27th Jan 2016, 13:37
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One point on equipment:

Take some long tie down ropes, maybe even your own tie-down anchors (Airventure used to have a good guide on these). Not all airports are created equal.
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Old 28th Jan 2016, 13:26
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Thanks a ton YRP
some really good info there

thanks for the customs tip and the info on COPA - i'll look into getting a membership.
i've decided to get foreflight - tried it and loved it.
never thought about tie down ropes - but good idea.


Do you guys recommend insurance? travel, health? is there any such insurance when you do something like this?
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Old 29th Jan 2016, 00:05
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Tie down ropes

Yes, plan for tying down the plane - the wet can be windy! But, give thought to what you put into the ground. Some of the great idea screw in or stomp in tiedowns are not terribly effective. Bear in mind that Cessna recommends for the 182 that each tiedown have 700 pounds capacity. The screw in "tie your dog leash to" type are often not that good (my dog used to pull hers out!).

My experience during many long ferry flights is that I have always been able to figure something out for a tiedown, as long as I had the ratchet straps. I really like wheel chocks which you can tie to each other around the wheels. If the plane cannot squirm out of the chocks, they will sit in a fair wind, as long as they are pointed in to it.

I had a look at the list I wrote for my last long trip to the Canadian arctic. It included:

Rope and cord, a crash axe, emergency battery pack, a very bright jacket, and a proper emergency kit for survival. The Canadian regulation:

Survival Equipment — Flights over Land

  • 602.61 (1) Subject to subsection (2), no person shall operate an aircraft over land unless there is carried on board survival equipment, sufficient for the survival on the ground of each person on board, given the geographical area, the season of the year and anticipated seasonal climatic variations, that provides the means for
    • (a) starting a fire;
    • (b) providing shelter;
    • (c) providing or purifying water; and
    • (d) visually signalling distress.

And emergency food, first aid kit, utility tool/Swiss Army knife, and a blanket.

As a final test, take your list of stuff you're going to take along and a pen, and walk into a field at dusk on a cool evening. Sit there for a half an hour, and then ask yourself what you'd have with you there, knowing that you're going to be there for 24 hours, before anyone or anything else comes. I have been stuck "with the plane" over night at a remote location before.
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