Australian pilots working in Canada
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Australian pilots working in Canada
Hi, I'm a 21 year old Australian just about to sit my CPL test and am exploring the possibility of moving to Canada to seek employment. Just wondering if anyone can give me their experience or advice on these matters.
1) How to I obtain the right to legally work in Canada (temporarily or permanently)?
2) How do I transition my license (also, I have 70hrs PIC which is the Australian CPL minimum, do I need 100hrs as that's the Canadian minimum)?
3) Is it worth getting my Multi-Engine Instrument rating/ float plane (bush course) endorsement here or would I be better off getting that in Canada?
4) Do I stand much of a chance getting employment without any work experience and being foreign (I wouldn't mind doing 2 years ramp work prior)?
5) I've read that employers there like to physically meet you rather than read your resume, where is a good hub to set up shop while I look for work i.e. Yellowknife, Edmonton?
I have read through a lot of forums and done some research on transitioning licenses, obtaining work permits etc I'd just really appreciate some first hand experience, especially from anybody who has done something similar. Thanks
1) How to I obtain the right to legally work in Canada (temporarily or permanently)?
2) How do I transition my license (also, I have 70hrs PIC which is the Australian CPL minimum, do I need 100hrs as that's the Canadian minimum)?
3) Is it worth getting my Multi-Engine Instrument rating/ float plane (bush course) endorsement here or would I be better off getting that in Canada?
4) Do I stand much of a chance getting employment without any work experience and being foreign (I wouldn't mind doing 2 years ramp work prior)?
5) I've read that employers there like to physically meet you rather than read your resume, where is a good hub to set up shop while I look for work i.e. Yellowknife, Edmonton?
I have read through a lot of forums and done some research on transitioning licenses, obtaining work permits etc I'd just really appreciate some first hand experience, especially from anybody who has done something similar. Thanks
You have to spend some money at CASA in Australia to get them to issue documents which Transport Canada needs to issue you an equivalent certificate.
If you want to fly in Canada get as much instruction as you can in Canada. They are two different worlds, and local knowledge is key.
Good luck...
If you want to fly in Canada get as much instruction as you can in Canada. They are two different worlds, and local knowledge is key.
Good luck...
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1. avcanada is a crap website, ignore it.
2. I wouldn't waste time with canadian instruction if you already have a cpl, 200 hours whether here or there is still sh!t.
3. you'll need to do whatever to convert your license to be employable, figure it out.
4. I think aussies under a certain age, maybe 25 can get a get a working holiday visa... maybe valid 1 year which would be a way in, employer likes you they could extend you.
5. good luck, pretty tough goings for low timers in this country... not a single person that I was in flight school with (except me) ever got a job and in my case it was probably just bad karma because I worked a lot of ****ty jobs over the years.
edit...
6. best place to set up shop is the back of a corrola wagon... or a subaru if you can spring a few bucks... maybe even a pick up with a canopy, yeah that would be sweet. seriously, if you are looking seriously and you don't have any ties, get ready to go... no point sitting in YEG or YWG or YQT or Ywherever when you never know where you could get a chance... the grand road trip at the right time is still a better way to get a job than sitting on your couch emailing resumes.
2. I wouldn't waste time with canadian instruction if you already have a cpl, 200 hours whether here or there is still sh!t.
3. you'll need to do whatever to convert your license to be employable, figure it out.
4. I think aussies under a certain age, maybe 25 can get a get a working holiday visa... maybe valid 1 year which would be a way in, employer likes you they could extend you.
5. good luck, pretty tough goings for low timers in this country... not a single person that I was in flight school with (except me) ever got a job and in my case it was probably just bad karma because I worked a lot of ****ty jobs over the years.
edit...
6. best place to set up shop is the back of a corrola wagon... or a subaru if you can spring a few bucks... maybe even a pick up with a canopy, yeah that would be sweet. seriously, if you are looking seriously and you don't have any ties, get ready to go... no point sitting in YEG or YWG or YQT or Ywherever when you never know where you could get a chance... the grand road trip at the right time is still a better way to get a job than sitting on your couch emailing resumes.
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Thanks for all the feedback so far. Yeah I have read that there is a program whereby young Australians can work and travel for 2 years so I'd probably try for that. I was planning on travelling through Canada as part of a help exchange (work 20hrs a week general duties to cover accommodation) and searching for work in my downtime. The ultimate goal would be to gain work as a pilot but I am coming to Canada regardless. I read on some sites (whether its an advertising gimmick or not) that doing the 50hr bush course can give you a big leg up in obtaining your first job, is there any truth to that? And yeah good advice, I'll start looking at how I would go about buying a car over there.
If you are doing the tourist/work caper you could likely find a car cheaper in the states and drive it legally in Canada as long as you are not a permanent resident. Such a plan might necessitate a convenience address in whatever state the vehicle is registered.
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I've been looking at some forums and apparently you can purchase a car in BC without a permanent address (however it doesn't enable you to drive to other states). And I just have that overwhelming urge to leave Australia and see a part of the world that fascinates me. I have nothing tying me down and I'd always regret not having tried it. Pilot jobs in Australia are quite few and far between as well.
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I wouldn't say the 50hr bush course gives you a big leg up on other people. At 200 hours, 50 hours is a lot of time. In the grand scheme of things, it's one months worth of flying for the average line pilot. Additionally, many of those courses that I know about do the course with a 172 or 182 on floats...not exactly the Beavers, Otters, and Twin Otters that many of the northern operators use - although, there are a couple 182 operators out there.
In saying that, the course will give you exposure to the Canadian system, which is not a bad thing; there are considerations that you'll need to take into account here in Canada that you wouldn't in Australia.
In any case, sounds like you've got a good attitude towards working the ramp for 2 years, which like it or not, a 200 hour pilot in Canada will probably have to do unless you instruct.
Good luck!
In saying that, the course will give you exposure to the Canadian system, which is not a bad thing; there are considerations that you'll need to take into account here in Canada that you wouldn't in Australia.
In any case, sounds like you've got a good attitude towards working the ramp for 2 years, which like it or not, a 200 hour pilot in Canada will probably have to do unless you instruct.
Good luck!
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When considering the 50 hour sea plane training one must understand the value of such training is dependent on who teaches you and where.
The type of sea plane used for the training is not really that important as you should be learning the art of handling sea planes in various conditions such as fast flowing rivers, tidal waters, mountains etc.
Also you should be taught flying sea planes in marginal weather such as you will be flying in in commercial aviation.
Once you are taught the skills needed for safe sea plane operations all you need is a type check out on whatever airplane your first employer operates.
The last thing in my mind when hiring a new sea plane pilot would be what make of airplane he/she learned on.
I would want to know " WHO " he / she had for the teacher.
The type of sea plane used for the training is not really that important as you should be learning the art of handling sea planes in various conditions such as fast flowing rivers, tidal waters, mountains etc.
Also you should be taught flying sea planes in marginal weather such as you will be flying in in commercial aviation.
Once you are taught the skills needed for safe sea plane operations all you need is a type check out on whatever airplane your first employer operates.
The last thing in my mind when hiring a new sea plane pilot would be what make of airplane he/she learned on.
I would want to know " WHO " he / she had for the teacher.
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 8th May 2014 at 22:29.
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Good point. The bush course is a lot more valuable if it's taught by someone who has operational experience in the bush.
What I was going with the type of aircraft was having seen pilots who had taken the course, showing up for an interview with the attitude that, with 250 hours total time with 50 hours in a 172 on floats, they knew everything the bush had to offer and that a Beaver was nothing more than a big 172.
What I was going with the type of aircraft was having seen pilots who had taken the course, showing up for an interview with the attitude that, with 250 hours total time with 50 hours in a 172 on floats, they knew everything the bush had to offer and that a Beaver was nothing more than a big 172.
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Good point. The bush course is a lot more valuable if it's taught by someone who has operational experience in the bush.
However there are a few and any pilot wishing to spend their money wisely must make sure the teacher they are choosing is the best they can find.
It is not all that difficult to check on the background and reputation of any teacher, all you need is due diligence.
The really good ones can produce proof their product is good.
A flashy web site is far from proof you will get a competent teacher.
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 8th May 2014 at 23:27.
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First off, I would recommend doing a bit of research yourself on this topic. Have a look around on the net and see what you can dig up. A foreign pilot working in Canada seems to be a bit of a sore point here so don't always trust what you are told.
It's amazing reading a lot of the anti-foreigner posts on these boards though... when I was actually in Canada, I didn't have any of the animosity shown towards me...
It's a great country to live in once you have a job. Had the time of my life there and wish that I never left.
But in answer to your questions.
1) The IEC working holiday visa would be the easiest path for you to take. Its available to all Australians (And canadians reciprocally should they choose to use it). Upon issue, it is valid for one year for you to use it. Once "activated", it is valid for one year after that. You can then apply to extend it for another year. This option is only available to Aussie citizens. None of the other countries on this program get this chance!
So long as you are under 31 (Or is it 35?), no criminal record, and there is slots available (Limited number each year). Then you will be fine.
2) I'm guessing you have done the 150hr course? I'm not 100% sure on this licence conversion then as it is a bit different to the norm.
Your best bet is to call up TC (Or email but expect a few days for a reply) and to get the word from the horses mouth. Be careful with this though as it seems to vary from province to province.
To go about the licence conversion process, it is fairly easy.
Start by getting yourself a Canadian Class 1 medical before you leave. This will get you a number in the TC system. You should be able to find a medical examiner in Aussie that can do one. They are pretty cheap and no different to your normal Class 1.
Once you are in Canada, you will have to write a single exam for the CPL licence. It's not like in Aussie where they are all single subjects, this exam is all the subjects condensed into 1 3hr computer based exam.
I think it is called the CPAER? Something along those lines.
There is a requirement for ground school hours before you can write this exam. Your foreign licence waves this requirement so you DO NOT need ground school.
Once you have passed this, you simply go and take the CPL flight test.
You don't need to do the PPL first. Apparently the examiner can act as PiC for the flight test so a few lessons to get yourself familiar with the area and what they usually expect from the flight test and you are good to go.
3) If you get your multi engine endorsement before you go, then it will be transferred across with your licence.
For this to transfer over you must have done either of the following:- Flown 50hrs PiC OR had the ME rating issued in the last 12 months.
Unfortunately when I came over, I had neither of those so had to pay to get one done.
4) If you are made to be a rampie for 2yrs, you have picked a bad company. If you offer to do rampie for two years, I will find you, and I will hurt you.
Some will tear your CV up if you even suggest the above.
You will struggle to find work with your hours. But if you take the time to drive around and shake hands and meet the operators, then you will find work (Sounds just like home yeah?)
5) Best to plan a trans Canada trip. Ontario is a good province to start in. East coast has a few operators that will take low time guys but most want experience... and others want a bit of French.
Get a map of Canada, research all the operators (I used pilot career center and avcanada), put them as dots on a map then buy a car and get ready to spend entire days driving to get anywhere (Again, sound like home?)
For that... you will need a canadian drivers licence, insurance and possibly an address of convenience. Have any friends or family there?
Hope all this helps.
Was one of the best times of my life. And man oh man there is some beautiful canadian women! And they love an accent
It's amazing reading a lot of the anti-foreigner posts on these boards though... when I was actually in Canada, I didn't have any of the animosity shown towards me...
It's a great country to live in once you have a job. Had the time of my life there and wish that I never left.
But in answer to your questions.
1) The IEC working holiday visa would be the easiest path for you to take. Its available to all Australians (And canadians reciprocally should they choose to use it). Upon issue, it is valid for one year for you to use it. Once "activated", it is valid for one year after that. You can then apply to extend it for another year. This option is only available to Aussie citizens. None of the other countries on this program get this chance!
So long as you are under 31 (Or is it 35?), no criminal record, and there is slots available (Limited number each year). Then you will be fine.
2) I'm guessing you have done the 150hr course? I'm not 100% sure on this licence conversion then as it is a bit different to the norm.
Your best bet is to call up TC (Or email but expect a few days for a reply) and to get the word from the horses mouth. Be careful with this though as it seems to vary from province to province.
To go about the licence conversion process, it is fairly easy.
Start by getting yourself a Canadian Class 1 medical before you leave. This will get you a number in the TC system. You should be able to find a medical examiner in Aussie that can do one. They are pretty cheap and no different to your normal Class 1.
Once you are in Canada, you will have to write a single exam for the CPL licence. It's not like in Aussie where they are all single subjects, this exam is all the subjects condensed into 1 3hr computer based exam.
I think it is called the CPAER? Something along those lines.
There is a requirement for ground school hours before you can write this exam. Your foreign licence waves this requirement so you DO NOT need ground school.
Once you have passed this, you simply go and take the CPL flight test.
You don't need to do the PPL first. Apparently the examiner can act as PiC for the flight test so a few lessons to get yourself familiar with the area and what they usually expect from the flight test and you are good to go.
3) If you get your multi engine endorsement before you go, then it will be transferred across with your licence.
For this to transfer over you must have done either of the following:- Flown 50hrs PiC OR had the ME rating issued in the last 12 months.
Unfortunately when I came over, I had neither of those so had to pay to get one done.
4) If you are made to be a rampie for 2yrs, you have picked a bad company. If you offer to do rampie for two years, I will find you, and I will hurt you.
Some will tear your CV up if you even suggest the above.
You will struggle to find work with your hours. But if you take the time to drive around and shake hands and meet the operators, then you will find work (Sounds just like home yeah?)
5) Best to plan a trans Canada trip. Ontario is a good province to start in. East coast has a few operators that will take low time guys but most want experience... and others want a bit of French.
Get a map of Canada, research all the operators (I used pilot career center and avcanada), put them as dots on a map then buy a car and get ready to spend entire days driving to get anywhere (Again, sound like home?)
For that... you will need a canadian drivers licence, insurance and possibly an address of convenience. Have any friends or family there?
Hope all this helps.
Was one of the best times of my life. And man oh man there is some beautiful canadian women! And they love an accent
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Thanks everyone for all your advice thus far, really helping me get a better idea of what's involved. I've been looking at Air Hart or Ocean Air, does anyone know anything about either of them (for the bush training)? I suppose a lot of it would be luck of the draw as well, if the potential employer has ties to the flight school. Thanks lilflyboy262 for such a comprehensive reply. I didn't know about the rule that if your rating was issued in the last 12 months it is valid regardless of PIC hours so that's helpful as I'm one flight away from a tail plane/aerobatics endorsement. And yeah a lengthy road trip sounds like an adventure, i guess similar to Australia in that regards except with the looming threat of freezing to death in the car at night. How long did it take you to find a job that way? I unfortunately have no family or friends there but BC does seem to have measures in place to allow to own a car without a permanent address at least temporarily. Hahaha yeah the last line feels me with hope as well.
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The 12 months thing is specific to your multi rating only as I recall.
For your night rating you must be current, and have completed at least 2hrs x-country.
Other ratings will have their own restrictions on them.
Are you planning on doing your MEIR before you go?
For me, I had a job the day my licence conversion was complete. But I came to Canada with 1800hrs and 500hrs on a Caravan. Went DEC on a van and F/O on a King Air.
BC is the best place to get your licence. You can just surrender your foreign licence and then get a BC one.
From there you can get a car, insurance and then you are good to go.
As for the bush training... Not 100% on those. Most of my few thousand hours now have been in the bush. What is taught on those courses and in reality is two different things.
A lot of operators will tell you different things. Some may want to see a bush course, others may want to see time on type, others couldn't care and as long as you have a good attitude and a pulse, will put you in their planes as a co-jo.
After doing your research on which companies you would like to really try to get on with, flick them an email or a phone call and see what they would prefer. Tally them up and see what is going to be best for you so you don't end up wasting cash.
All the stuff you need to study for your CPAER exam can basically be found online. I suggest getting hold of the syllabus and studying to that so you don't miss out on anything.
If you can't find what you need to study, flick me a PM and I will email you through all the material I used to study.
I also have one other tip for you that I would rather not say on here.
For your night rating you must be current, and have completed at least 2hrs x-country.
Other ratings will have their own restrictions on them.
Are you planning on doing your MEIR before you go?
For me, I had a job the day my licence conversion was complete. But I came to Canada with 1800hrs and 500hrs on a Caravan. Went DEC on a van and F/O on a King Air.
BC is the best place to get your licence. You can just surrender your foreign licence and then get a BC one.
From there you can get a car, insurance and then you are good to go.
As for the bush training... Not 100% on those. Most of my few thousand hours now have been in the bush. What is taught on those courses and in reality is two different things.
A lot of operators will tell you different things. Some may want to see a bush course, others may want to see time on type, others couldn't care and as long as you have a good attitude and a pulse, will put you in their planes as a co-jo.
After doing your research on which companies you would like to really try to get on with, flick them an email or a phone call and see what they would prefer. Tally them up and see what is going to be best for you so you don't end up wasting cash.
All the stuff you need to study for your CPAER exam can basically be found online. I suggest getting hold of the syllabus and studying to that so you don't miss out on anything.
If you can't find what you need to study, flick me a PM and I will email you through all the material I used to study.
I also have one other tip for you that I would rather not say on here.
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B.C. is the best place to get a license? Really? Based on what? Compared to what other province or territory? How many provinces and territories have you lived in?
B.C. has a 7 percent provincial sales tax, (PST), on pretty well everything. You may end up paying 12 percent tax on a car. B.C. also has provincially administered auto insurance (ICBC). You will be paying well over $1,000 a year for auto insurance.
If you live in the lower mainland, (there is no upper mainland), of Vancouver, you will pay four (4) taxes on gasoline, instead of the usual two (2) taxes in Alberta. In Canada, there is a federally mandated tax on gasoline. It is built-in (included) to the cost per litre, you then pay 5% GST on that, so Canadians pay a tax on a tax, which is absurd, incorrect, illegal, but truly Canadian. Gasoline (regular octane) is about $1.41 per litre in Vancouver. Milk is $2.30 per litre.
I've lived and worked in three provinces and two territories of Canada. In my opinion, B.C. rates last.
There is no provincial tax in Alberta, nor is there a territorial tax in Yukon, Nunavut, and The Northwest Territories.
If you get a decent job, you will pay 38 percent federal income tax, and 13 percent B.C. provincial income tax. Essentially half your gross income goes to paying tax. Great place to live, isn't it? Lets say you make about $50,000 gross in your first year. After taxes, your net income is about $25,000. In Canada, you will also pay 5% GST on pretty well everything else.
B.C. has a 7 percent provincial sales tax, (PST), on pretty well everything. You may end up paying 12 percent tax on a car. B.C. also has provincially administered auto insurance (ICBC). You will be paying well over $1,000 a year for auto insurance.
If you live in the lower mainland, (there is no upper mainland), of Vancouver, you will pay four (4) taxes on gasoline, instead of the usual two (2) taxes in Alberta. In Canada, there is a federally mandated tax on gasoline. It is built-in (included) to the cost per litre, you then pay 5% GST on that, so Canadians pay a tax on a tax, which is absurd, incorrect, illegal, but truly Canadian. Gasoline (regular octane) is about $1.41 per litre in Vancouver. Milk is $2.30 per litre.
I've lived and worked in three provinces and two territories of Canada. In my opinion, B.C. rates last.
There is no provincial tax in Alberta, nor is there a territorial tax in Yukon, Nunavut, and The Northwest Territories.
If you get a decent job, you will pay 38 percent federal income tax, and 13 percent B.C. provincial income tax. Essentially half your gross income goes to paying tax. Great place to live, isn't it? Lets say you make about $50,000 gross in your first year. After taxes, your net income is about $25,000. In Canada, you will also pay 5% GST on pretty well everything else.
Last edited by evansb; 10th May 2014 at 00:07.
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I said best place to get your drivers licence, not to live and work.
For ease of drivers licence conversion, all you need to do is hand it over your licence from Australia and they will issue you a BC licence.
In all other provinces you must sit a theory and practical exam for your licence.
Good god man
For ease of drivers licence conversion, all you need to do is hand it over your licence from Australia and they will issue you a BC licence.
In all other provinces you must sit a theory and practical exam for your licence.
Good god man
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Australian GST is 10% and New Zealand has 15%. NZ also charges GST on petrol tax (does Australia?). The top tax rate in Australia is fairly high and in NZ is 33%.
Not that a lowest rung CPL in NZ would be earning enough to pay the top rate and probably not the middle on either (that kicks in around NZ$40,000).
So the top tax rate in B.C seems to be (38%+13%+5%)= 56%.
Australia (45%+10%)= 55%
Plus Australia has just added this:
"The Abbott government’s deficit tax means top earners will face a 49 per cent marginal tax rate, the eighth highest among developed countries.
The May 13 budget is expected to include a 2 per cent “deficit tax” for people with taxable incomes above $180,000, increasing the 45 per cent top tax rate to 49 per cent, once medicare and disability levies are included."
Top rate of 49pc would make Australia 8th-highest tax nation in OECD
NZ (33%+15%)= 48%, so less tax but lower income to start with.
Not that a lowest rung CPL in NZ would be earning enough to pay the top rate and probably not the middle on either (that kicks in around NZ$40,000).
So the top tax rate in B.C seems to be (38%+13%+5%)= 56%.
Australia (45%+10%)= 55%
Plus Australia has just added this:
"The Abbott government’s deficit tax means top earners will face a 49 per cent marginal tax rate, the eighth highest among developed countries.
The May 13 budget is expected to include a 2 per cent “deficit tax” for people with taxable incomes above $180,000, increasing the 45 per cent top tax rate to 49 per cent, once medicare and disability levies are included."
Top rate of 49pc would make Australia 8th-highest tax nation in OECD
NZ (33%+15%)= 48%, so less tax but lower income to start with.
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I haven't got the night rating yet however I've done the 5 hours solo night circuits, would it be worth finishing that? In the course I'm in we get our MEIR and then complete the ATPL theory tests. I just don't know if it's worth getting the Instrument rating if it won't be recognized in Canada.
Sounds like you had a fairly considerable amount of experience, reckon I'd be better off trying to find work here to build some experience before I make the switch to Canada? And thanks for the advice, I might Email a few hiring operators to see what they would hypothetically prefer from me.
And evansb thanks for the heads up, it's funny though in Brisbane (where I live) full comprehensive insurance for my car (Supra) would be $4,000 a year, and if I saw the petrol price at $1.41 I would fill it up quickly cause that's the lowest it gets here, usually hovers around $1.61. We also have the third most expensive public transport system in the world! In short, we're being screwed. So even BC would be a pleasant change from here. My only concern with the other territories would be purchasing a vehicle without a permanent address and driving it legally (if another territory does that I would look very seriously at it). I've always wanted to visit Canada and its the remoteness that attracts me, I'm happy to work anywhere (although I say that without an intimate knowledge of Canada).
Sounds like you had a fairly considerable amount of experience, reckon I'd be better off trying to find work here to build some experience before I make the switch to Canada? And thanks for the advice, I might Email a few hiring operators to see what they would hypothetically prefer from me.
And evansb thanks for the heads up, it's funny though in Brisbane (where I live) full comprehensive insurance for my car (Supra) would be $4,000 a year, and if I saw the petrol price at $1.41 I would fill it up quickly cause that's the lowest it gets here, usually hovers around $1.61. We also have the third most expensive public transport system in the world! In short, we're being screwed. So even BC would be a pleasant change from here. My only concern with the other territories would be purchasing a vehicle without a permanent address and driving it legally (if another territory does that I would look very seriously at it). I've always wanted to visit Canada and its the remoteness that attracts me, I'm happy to work anywhere (although I say that without an intimate knowledge of Canada).