Is my instructor leaching me?
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Is my instructor leaching me?
I started flying in August 2013 and have logged 18.8 hours of dual instruction time till now. So 18.8 hours over 8 months :/ and i still haven't soloed. I returned to flying few days ago after a 5 month break. The instructor is now going over all the upper air work again. Should i continue with him?
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The best person to ask is your instructor. All the advice you'll get on PPRuNe is great from a theory point of view, but frankly we don't fly with you. I have no idea how your hands and feet skills are. I have no idea what your decision making skills are like. Therefore, I have no idea if you should go solo, and neither does anyone else (unless they're your instructor).
[BTW, that comes off a lot harder than I intend it on being.]
Sit down with your instructor. Ask the question. You are paying for the lessons, so you have the right to ask. Find out what errors you are making that prevents your instructor from sending you solo.
Fix those errors and you'll likely be sent solo. If you're not sent solo, then ask to fly with another instructor and get their opinion.
However, only flying 2 1/2 hours per month would not typically be sufficient for you to make the progress required to be sent solo. Remember: going solo is competency based, not time based.
As for your instructor making you complete the upper air work exercises after a 5 month break - that would be normal. I too would want a student away from flying that long to prove to me they remember the basics.
I hope that makes sense.
[BTW, that comes off a lot harder than I intend it on being.]
Sit down with your instructor. Ask the question. You are paying for the lessons, so you have the right to ask. Find out what errors you are making that prevents your instructor from sending you solo.
Fix those errors and you'll likely be sent solo. If you're not sent solo, then ask to fly with another instructor and get their opinion.
However, only flying 2 1/2 hours per month would not typically be sufficient for you to make the progress required to be sent solo. Remember: going solo is competency based, not time based.
As for your instructor making you complete the upper air work exercises after a 5 month break - that would be normal. I too would want a student away from flying that long to prove to me they remember the basics.
I hope that makes sense.
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@+TSRA : Thanks for your thoughts man. People keep telling me that 18.8 hours is a lot of time to take to solo and that maybe flying isn't for me. Yeah i guess averaging 2.5 hours a month doesn't help.
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Hey Elvis, don't get discouraged. People learn at different rates and you certainly don't want to rush. Safety for you and others is the priority.
Though, I suggest you go up with a different instructor and see how things go. Not all instructors are the same and have different styles. It's not uncommon to change instructors and certainly reasonable if you are questioning him / her.
Think of it like getting a second opinion from a doc.
Another thing is if you take time off it is quite common you are going to need refreshing.
Good luck
Though, I suggest you go up with a different instructor and see how things go. Not all instructors are the same and have different styles. It's not uncommon to change instructors and certainly reasonable if you are questioning him / her.
Think of it like getting a second opinion from a doc.
Another thing is if you take time off it is quite common you are going to need refreshing.
Good luck
Time to solo is a meaningless metric. What matters is how good you are when you get your PPL.
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Elvis....18.8 hours, then 5 months off? Mate, I've got well over 20000 hours and I have to be retrained every Monday morning! LOL!
Let's try to keep all your thoughts/questions in a single thread...they're all related.
Are you flying at WWFC?
Cheers
WD
Let's try to keep all your thoughts/questions in a single thread...they're all related.
Are you flying at WWFC?
Cheers
WD
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@Letsjet: Hey bud, thanks. I'm not discouraged 
i'm just frustrated that it's taken this long. I wouldn't have started training if i didn't believe in myself. Got a slight OCD when it comes to checklists and walk arounds and stuff like that. I guess experience will change this. I will consider what you just said about flying with another instructor
i'm just frustrated that it's taken this long. I wouldn't have started training if i didn't believe in myself. Got a slight OCD when it comes to checklists and walk arounds and stuff like that. I guess experience will change this. I will consider what you just said about flying with another instructor
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@Wolfdog: Damn, 20,000 hours?!! do you have a full flight simulator at home? ever considered one? haha alright man i'll try not to start too many threads. Yeah at WWFC
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You should be flying at least a couple times a week, practice and repetition are key for hand and feet skills. If you wanted to become a good hockey player or a skier you can't do that by rarely practicing, same with flying.
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@jamiepilot77: point taken it's not that i didn't want to fly twice or more a week. Circumstances didn't let me. No public transport to CYKF and carpooling wasn't an option, electric bicycle @ 32km/h is how i get there and it takes me 40 mins to reach. Will be flying 6 days a week from now till end of May, weather permitting of course. It's been one crazy winter.
it's not that i didn't want to fly twice or more a week. Circumstances didn't let me. No public transport to CYKF and carpooling wasn't an option, electric bicycle @ 32km/h is how i get there and it takes me 40 mins to reach. Will be flying 6 days a week from now till end of May, weather permitting of course. It's been one crazy winter.
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Quick question, are Jim Kuskoff or Gerry Younger still at the airport. I can still hear Gerry's voice in my headphones after a particularly sloppy spin recovery; "don't ever let the aircraft be in control, YOU are in control". I'll never forget that!
PM me if you like.
PM me if you like.
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best thing you can do is save $3000 up for future flight lessons, once you have that amount saved up take time off for a few months from your current schedule and fly at least 3 times a week. Or better get a job at your local airport as a ramp/counter person or in the maintenance shop.
Taking time off from flying for 5 months is not a good approach to learning because you will be rusty and will need to be retaught past flight maneuvers, emergency procedures etc, in the long run you will spend more money by not flying continuously and you will be more frustrated about how little you are accomplish towards your pilots license.
Do I think your instructor is taking financial advantage of you? NO he is doing what is require of a good instructor according to the FAA requirements = making sure you are proficient and safe in an aircraft.
Until you have your money saved up take the time to study all of your flight books and buy the Jeppesen Private Pilot videos plus they have an excellent private pilot book both well worth the money.
Good luck!
Taking time off from flying for 5 months is not a good approach to learning because you will be rusty and will need to be retaught past flight maneuvers, emergency procedures etc, in the long run you will spend more money by not flying continuously and you will be more frustrated about how little you are accomplish towards your pilots license.
Do I think your instructor is taking financial advantage of you? NO he is doing what is require of a good instructor according to the FAA requirements = making sure you are proficient and safe in an aircraft.
Until you have your money saved up take the time to study all of your flight books and buy the Jeppesen Private Pilot videos plus they have an excellent private pilot book both well worth the money.
Good luck!
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I was in the same shoes as you lately but I am 35.
But you are young and able to learn new things and knowledge faster, so as mentionned before it is a matter of repeating physically but also mentally every drill, maneuver, flow over and over.
And most importantly it's about decision-making + situational awareness.
You are about to get that step by step and build up your confidence gradually.
Keep it up elvispilot !!!
But you are young and able to learn new things and knowledge faster, so as mentionned before it is a matter of repeating physically but also mentally every drill, maneuver, flow over and over.
And most importantly it's about decision-making + situational awareness.
You are about to get that step by step and build up your confidence gradually.
Keep it up elvispilot !!!
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At age 37, I took about 30 hours to go solo. I am now at about 37 hours, and if I was to make the call myself, I would say I was ready to go solo at about 35 hours. I think the instructor sent me up 5 hours to early, but they did that for a very good reason.
I started flying late September 2013, and took 6 months to get to solo. So, 18.8 hours in 8 months does not sound bad to me, but I dont know your age or your backround.
Talk to your instructor. I was told to fly as often as a I could otherwise you spend to much time in revision. I am still low hours, but I can assure you this is so true. I have a 2 week break and its a huge setback.
Like johnjohncafe said, its about decision-making + situational awareness. When you can do both, they will send you up alone, even if your technique is not the best.
I started flying late September 2013, and took 6 months to get to solo. So, 18.8 hours in 8 months does not sound bad to me, but I dont know your age or your backround.
Talk to your instructor. I was told to fly as often as a I could otherwise you spend to much time in revision. I am still low hours, but I can assure you this is so true. I have a 2 week break and its a huge setback.
Like johnjohncafe said, its about decision-making + situational awareness. When you can do both, they will send you up alone, even if your technique is not the best.
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Like driving in a busy city, Flying an Aircraft is a high workload....Unfortunately, when you're overloaded up there, there isn't a side-road to sneak off to and get your head together.
As you have been told, you need enough constant, regular practice to make basic flight-skills automatic.
When all that's second nature, you'llhave reserve mental capacity to do the "different" things...like map-reading, talking to different people on the radio, matching terrain and map,keeping the correct height, etc. etc.
And if you were to have a malfunction / engine failure would you cope, with minimal stress, or freeze into a blind funk?
Sounds like your instructor is trying to make sure you stay alive long enough to complete the course
It's a good suggestion to save a rake of cash as a cushion, so you can fly more frequently, in a block, when costs exceed income.
I note you say you intend to do a more intense period of learning.....read -up training books and practice nav. weather recognition,radio calls etc so you KNOW. the what's whys and hows.
good luck!
As you have been told, you need enough constant, regular practice to make basic flight-skills automatic.
When all that's second nature, you'llhave reserve mental capacity to do the "different" things...like map-reading, talking to different people on the radio, matching terrain and map,keeping the correct height, etc. etc.
And if you were to have a malfunction / engine failure would you cope, with minimal stress, or freeze into a blind funk?
Sounds like your instructor is trying to make sure you stay alive long enough to complete the course
It's a good suggestion to save a rake of cash as a cushion, so you can fly more frequently, in a block, when costs exceed income.
I note you say you intend to do a more intense period of learning.....read -up training books and practice nav. weather recognition,radio calls etc so you KNOW. the what's whys and hows.
good luck!
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I did my PPL long ago and I spotted early on that my instructor was not paying attention to what I needed or what I had already done. To me it appeared as though he was more interested in logging HIS time and not looking after MY career. I fired him early on even though I was a youngster at the time.
Here I sit many years later with nearly 20,000 hours and I am still happy I could see through this clown.
Many instructors are instructors because they see this as their way to advance their flying hours. At the same time, many instructors are FANTASTIC and truly look after their students.
Trust your instincts.
Here I sit many years later with nearly 20,000 hours and I am still happy I could see through this clown.
Many instructors are instructors because they see this as their way to advance their flying hours. At the same time, many instructors are FANTASTIC and truly look after their students.
Trust your instincts.
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My 2 cents worth: the biggest factor there is the break you took. The biggest favour you can do for your self is make a commitment to fly minimum once, or better yet, twice a week with your instructor. The hours are somewhat important, but its critical to be consistent in the flying. Otherwise, every time you go flying, you are going to have to spend a portion of each flight reviewing what you did previously. I have been flying for 25 yours (holy cats, where did the time go...) have +15,000 hours, but if I go 60 days w/o flying, its simulator, and a sector with a trainer...
Keep it up... I can remember that first solo like yesterday....
Keep it up... I can remember that first solo like yesterday....
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at your stage of training, frequency of lessons ~ consistency/motor skills/reactions improvement.
I would NOT use such strong negative word with respect to your instructor.
If you're not happy, ask him in nice way, if not, as chief instructor to have another instructor or check flight with him. 'unbiased' third party, at least.
Yes, some schools in some places/countries may prefer to oversell/overtrain both before solo and private flight test and also mitigate the risks regarding insurance (and renewal premiums) when sending for first/early solos, but honestly, aeroplane solo isn't a rocket science, compared to some other aircraft, etc.
I'm 'junior' helicopter instructor, aeroplane PPL/IR so far, but in those 200hrs in FI seat, I've had more than average share of difficult students/lessons. 3 out of 5. I can say that what students, pre or post PPL, even with 100+ hours, think of themselves and the actual reality (their skills/decision making etc), can be the two sides of Yin and Yang.
You sound reasonable in your responses, but it's been said before. Nobody here can make correct judgement. If you save up and fly more frequently when the weather isn't likely to be factor for cancelling classes, heck, even morning and afternoon flights, if transport to airport is an issue.
I've had near-kamikaze stick skills in emergency training maneuvres student (PPL rated) getting pissed off later about how I don't let him fly the damn thing enough (well, I like my spine without compression injuries etc, then being told by boss NOT TO LET HIM FLY the way he saw, which was when I tried to stay off controls till very late fixing it up). Right there. What's considered safe, OK by boss or me, could be some adult CPL trainee idea of being near-Maverick. Yeah right.
Ask yourself a question. Is going solo bit later, regarding total time flown, going to screw up your life and pride/confidence? You've not trained often enough to improve/avoid revisiting maneuvres/getting rusty.
Would you rather freak out and mess up important stall/spin avoidance handling or dealing with power failure emergency, OR
Would you rather be bit overtrained and confident you're proficient/current/safe to fly solo and deal with any situation?
Remember, sending you for first/early solo is 'signing for' you being safe, both with aviation authority, school's owner/boss, FI's conscience. Erring on side of safety can mean ovetraining you bit. That training will go towards your PPL flight test skills, so whether you do the minimum solo time here or there, you'd still receive training. Ready to solo in circuit/pattern, does not equal being ready for flight test.
I know I mixed in some helicopter stuff (my experience and it's more critical there due to complexity/aerodynamics/handling), but as side note, some Swedish guys I know, told me of student who had engine failure on first solo in TURBINE Jetranger. Well, supposedly millions+ higher odds of compared to piston engine. He set it down OK/well.
It's not a race. I know that feeling of being 'milked', as it happened to me at other schools, where I didn't instruct, for my initial training. Long story. Anyway. Further down the line, whether you fly recreationally or for career, once you get the hours/experience up, you'd see it other way.
I would NOT use such strong negative word with respect to your instructor.
If you're not happy, ask him in nice way, if not, as chief instructor to have another instructor or check flight with him. 'unbiased' third party, at least.
Yes, some schools in some places/countries may prefer to oversell/overtrain both before solo and private flight test and also mitigate the risks regarding insurance (and renewal premiums) when sending for first/early solos, but honestly, aeroplane solo isn't a rocket science, compared to some other aircraft, etc.
I'm 'junior' helicopter instructor, aeroplane PPL/IR so far, but in those 200hrs in FI seat, I've had more than average share of difficult students/lessons. 3 out of 5. I can say that what students, pre or post PPL, even with 100+ hours, think of themselves and the actual reality (their skills/decision making etc), can be the two sides of Yin and Yang.
You sound reasonable in your responses, but it's been said before. Nobody here can make correct judgement. If you save up and fly more frequently when the weather isn't likely to be factor for cancelling classes, heck, even morning and afternoon flights, if transport to airport is an issue.
I've had near-kamikaze stick skills in emergency training maneuvres student (PPL rated) getting pissed off later about how I don't let him fly the damn thing enough (well, I like my spine without compression injuries etc, then being told by boss NOT TO LET HIM FLY the way he saw, which was when I tried to stay off controls till very late fixing it up). Right there. What's considered safe, OK by boss or me, could be some adult CPL trainee idea of being near-Maverick. Yeah right.
Ask yourself a question. Is going solo bit later, regarding total time flown, going to screw up your life and pride/confidence? You've not trained often enough to improve/avoid revisiting maneuvres/getting rusty.
Would you rather freak out and mess up important stall/spin avoidance handling or dealing with power failure emergency, OR
Would you rather be bit overtrained and confident you're proficient/current/safe to fly solo and deal with any situation?
Remember, sending you for first/early solo is 'signing for' you being safe, both with aviation authority, school's owner/boss, FI's conscience. Erring on side of safety can mean ovetraining you bit. That training will go towards your PPL flight test skills, so whether you do the minimum solo time here or there, you'd still receive training. Ready to solo in circuit/pattern, does not equal being ready for flight test.
I know I mixed in some helicopter stuff (my experience and it's more critical there due to complexity/aerodynamics/handling), but as side note, some Swedish guys I know, told me of student who had engine failure on first solo in TURBINE Jetranger. Well, supposedly millions+ higher odds of compared to piston engine. He set it down OK/well.
It's not a race. I know that feeling of being 'milked', as it happened to me at other schools, where I didn't instruct, for my initial training. Long story. Anyway. Further down the line, whether you fly recreationally or for career, once you get the hours/experience up, you'd see it other way.
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Anyone who looked at my log book would think I am getting milked. Near 40 hours now and not even started nav. To be honest I would be surprised if I start nav before 50 hours. My ppl is probably going to take double that of most students due to age and my fear of flying. But I am lucky to have 2 really great instructors and I have complete faith in them. They have more confidence in my ability than I do, and they are doing a fantastic job at managing my fear of flight.