A pilot’s quest to remain at the top
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$120k pension p.a.
And people wonder why AC is always hopelessly bankrupt...
My advice is to take the pension and run - AC will never be able to pay them all much longer!
And people wonder why AC is always hopelessly bankrupt...
My advice is to take the pension and run - AC will never be able to pay them all much longer!
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Unable to pay their pensions?
Wrong!!! The Air Canada pension plan is underfunded by 2.1 billion dollars, what that means if the company shut down today, the LIABILITIES the pension plan must pay is 13 billiion dollars. So everyone will get paid, but will have to take a haircut of about 25% of what they expected.
Keep in mind this was an actuarial calculation using rules set out by the OSFI on the date of the calculations. The rules can change and the returns on investment can change, this could improve the amount the pension is funded for better or for worse.
I believe the upper limit that can be drawn the Air Canada Pension plan is $57,750, as this is 70% of $82500 maximum ceiling that pension is calculated on.
The pilot's have a supplementary pension plan, these contributions go in general revenues, and may not be protected in CCAA or bankruptcy. If I am mistaken, someone who has better information can correct me.
In the event of the pension closing down, there are three rules for payout.
Those over 65 on pension will continue to receive their lifetime pensions, minus the unfunded portion.
Those that retired early, all of the payments that they have already received will be subtracted from their contributions with interest minus the unfunded portion, if they have collected more than this amount, they will receive no more payments from the pension fund.
Those who are still working and contributing, will receive a refund of their contributions with interest minus the unfunded portion.
This pension fund in not a ponzi scheme and each participant completely funds his own retirement, it does not depend on the contributions of present workers or future workers, as some have alluded to. Both the member's contributions and the company's contributions are deferred wages.
In my opinion, contribution holidays should not be allowed. There is a rule that does not allow companies to over fund pensions by more than 10%, because some have hidden profits avoiding income taxes, the plan members should not be penalized for this, nor do I believe that surpluses should be withdrawn.
Keep in mind this was an actuarial calculation using rules set out by the OSFI on the date of the calculations. The rules can change and the returns on investment can change, this could improve the amount the pension is funded for better or for worse.
I believe the upper limit that can be drawn the Air Canada Pension plan is $57,750, as this is 70% of $82500 maximum ceiling that pension is calculated on.
The pilot's have a supplementary pension plan, these contributions go in general revenues, and may not be protected in CCAA or bankruptcy. If I am mistaken, someone who has better information can correct me.
In the event of the pension closing down, there are three rules for payout.
Those over 65 on pension will continue to receive their lifetime pensions, minus the unfunded portion.
Those that retired early, all of the payments that they have already received will be subtracted from their contributions with interest minus the unfunded portion, if they have collected more than this amount, they will receive no more payments from the pension fund.
Those who are still working and contributing, will receive a refund of their contributions with interest minus the unfunded portion.
This pension fund in not a ponzi scheme and each participant completely funds his own retirement, it does not depend on the contributions of present workers or future workers, as some have alluded to. Both the member's contributions and the company's contributions are deferred wages.
In my opinion, contribution holidays should not be allowed. There is a rule that does not allow companies to over fund pensions by more than 10%, because some have hidden profits avoiding income taxes, the plan members should not be penalized for this, nor do I believe that surpluses should be withdrawn.
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The pilots have a different pension plan than the rest of Air Canada employees. If I remember well, it is better funded than Employees AC Pension Plan, meaning the deficit is less.
Mandatory retirement upheld at Air Canada
July 11, 2011 17:07:00 Susan Pigg
Staff Reporter
A Canadian Human Rights Tribunal has upheld Air Canada’s right to force pilots to retire at the age of 60.
Overturning retirement in the cockpit would lead to increased operational costs, scheduling difficulties and have “negative ramifications” for the pilots’ pension plan and collective agreement, according to the 19-page ruling.
Both Air Canada and the pilots’ union were pleased saying the ruling upholds decades-old provisions in the collective agreement that ensures senior pilots, who can make $239,000 a year, don’t block the career advancement of younger pilots.
Air Canada warned, and the tribunal agreed, that it would face severe scheduling difficulties if pilots were allowed to fly past 60: The International Civil Aviation Authority (ICAO) requires that a younger pilot be in the cockpit with older pilots on flights over international airspace. That’s 80 per cent of Air Canada flights.
The ruling on a case involving pilots George Vilven, 67, and Neil Kelly, 65 — the third on a case that has deeply divided Air Canada’s pilots and lead to a raft of other similar cases. Raymond Hall, a lawyer representing the two pilots, called the ruling "seriously flawed" and said he plans to appeal to the Federal Court.
The case could drag on for years more unless the federal government presses forward on a bill to end the last vestiges of mandatory retirement in Canada, warns Susan Eng of CARP (the Canadian Association of Retired Persons) which is lobbying for legislation.
Bill C-481, which died when the federal election was called, would have repealed a section of the Canadian Human Rights Act that allows federally regulated businesses, such as transportation and banking, to terminate employees who’ve reached “the normal age of retirement” in their sector.
Mandatory retirement upheld at Air Canada - thestar.com
July 11, 2011 17:07:00 Susan Pigg
Staff Reporter
A Canadian Human Rights Tribunal has upheld Air Canada’s right to force pilots to retire at the age of 60.
Overturning retirement in the cockpit would lead to increased operational costs, scheduling difficulties and have “negative ramifications” for the pilots’ pension plan and collective agreement, according to the 19-page ruling.
Both Air Canada and the pilots’ union were pleased saying the ruling upholds decades-old provisions in the collective agreement that ensures senior pilots, who can make $239,000 a year, don’t block the career advancement of younger pilots.
Air Canada warned, and the tribunal agreed, that it would face severe scheduling difficulties if pilots were allowed to fly past 60: The International Civil Aviation Authority (ICAO) requires that a younger pilot be in the cockpit with older pilots on flights over international airspace. That’s 80 per cent of Air Canada flights.
The ruling on a case involving pilots George Vilven, 67, and Neil Kelly, 65 — the third on a case that has deeply divided Air Canada’s pilots and lead to a raft of other similar cases. Raymond Hall, a lawyer representing the two pilots, called the ruling "seriously flawed" and said he plans to appeal to the Federal Court.
The case could drag on for years more unless the federal government presses forward on a bill to end the last vestiges of mandatory retirement in Canada, warns Susan Eng of CARP (the Canadian Association of Retired Persons) which is lobbying for legislation.
Bill C-481, which died when the federal election was called, would have repealed a section of the Canadian Human Rights Act that allows federally regulated businesses, such as transportation and banking, to terminate employees who’ve reached “the normal age of retirement” in their sector.
Mandatory retirement upheld at Air Canada - thestar.com
Thread Starter
Good Morning All:
I just got this as a email from a friend inside the airline.
There will be probably more court challenges to this........................
Age 60
Flight Operations has removed First Officers Kelly and Vilven from the August PBS process. This is a direct result of last month’s Canadian Human Rights Tribunal decision on their complaints, which found that retirement at age 60 under the terms of our Collective Agreement is a Bona Fide Occupational Requirement (BFOR).
I just got this as a email from a friend inside the airline.
There will be probably more court challenges to this........................
Age 60
Flight Operations has removed First Officers Kelly and Vilven from the August PBS process. This is a direct result of last month’s Canadian Human Rights Tribunal decision on their complaints, which found that retirement at age 60 under the terms of our Collective Agreement is a Bona Fide Occupational Requirement (BFOR).
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There will be probably more court challenges to this........................
I wonder if ACPA has considered the possibility of paying half the salaries of these gentlemen for the time it takes to get this ruling tossed out? No doubt the company has since it cuts their cost liability in half and shifts it onto the pilots.
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Originally Posted by a330pilotcanada
I just got this as a email from a friend inside the airline. ...
Second, does the fact that you received the text from "a friend inside the airline" indicate that you, yourself, are not or are no longer inside the airline, despite you lengthy criticisms of those who wish to remain employed within the airline?
