Why is Air Canada losing so much money and what can done about it?

[Johnny767]

The In-flight service at Air Canada is inconsistent. There are lots of F/A's that do a fantastic job, and a handful that are completely useless.

There are those, particularly on overseas, whose only motivation is to see how fast they can hit the bunk and catch up on their sleep.

Overall I do believe that the service (when done by the book) is very good.

The larger problem at Air Canada is the strength of the F/A Union, CUPE. F/A's live in a world of impunity and can get away with (almost) anything.

Couple that with the "socialist agenda" of Canada and it is...not good.

For our - out of country - friends you have to understand how upside down this place is.

It is the "Air Canada Component" of CUPE that has filed a "Human Rights Complaint" that F/A's and Pilots are;

"Work of Equal Value"

...and we should be paid the same!

Management need to resort to "ghost riders" and get a handle on the offenders. Then they need to have the guts to do something about it.

[Minorite invisible]

Propping up Air Canada

Anyone notice this Aug 1 article in the National Post ?

Propping up Air Canada

Ottawa has stumbled deeper into the practice of picking winners and losers from amid corporate Canada with its decision to pump $250-million into struggling Air Canada.

Some of the money will come from the Canada Account, the same pool used to bail out General Motors and Chrysler. The fund was established to promote export-oriented businesses but will be used to prop up Air Canada even though it produces nothing for export. In effect, it's become a slush fund for failing companies favoured by politicians.

Ottawa justified the infusion by noting Air Canada is dealing with "extraordinary circumstances" -- seeking to survive in a competitive industry during difficult times. But no money is going to rival airlines WestJet or Porter, though both face the same challenges and continue to thrive.

A spokesman said Stockwell Day, the International Trade Minister, was confident "the airline has developed a long-term plan to remain a viable business." One analyst told the National Post that Air Canada still suffers an "inflated cost structure, eroding market share, high debt levels, big pension deficit and depressed industry demand," but what does he know next to a federal Cabinet member?

In effect, Air Canada's competitors are suffering the same fate as Ford Motor Corp., which got its finances in shape before the recession hit and was penalized by having its rivals saved from extinction. Now it's up to

Cabinet ministers to decide which business plans are viable and which aren't, which airlines deserve to survive and which don't, which companies are worthy of federal lifelines, and which -- like Nortel -- can be left to the mercy of market forces. And this from a Conservative government.

[Tan]

Hey hotndusty

Unfortunately for you I have over 30 years at AC as a pilot and I recognize AC bashing when I read it. I do love my company and will not tolerate any stupid AC bashing from the likes of you or any other cranks like you.

[hotndusty]

Tan,
Congrats on the 30 years - it's almost time to retire.

[Tan]

To bad you’ll never make 30 years…

[sec 3]

Tan, you are the stereotypical AC pilot, a f##kin' pinhead. Fortunately guys like you are a minority at AC If you really think it's every kid's dream to be an AC pilot, you live a very delusional life. Many good drivers "made the grade", then turned it down because they were doing something better. Yah, it's the best gig in canada, but worldwide it's far from the best. Depends what you're looking for.

[Tan]

sec 3

What gives you the right to bad mouth AC or for that matter any company/person when you’re unwilling to say whom you work for or what you do to make a living. I've seen and heard your type throughout my whole career. You’re just another gutless wonder who never made it..

[hotndusty]

Tan,
"To bad you'll never make 30 years... FYI it's 'too' (two o's..)

[CanadaRocks]

Hi Tan,

Sec 3 drives a bus for a airline in the Middle East, like myself. Not Greyhound! I'm a TRI 330/340 at EY.

Congrats on the 30 years. Whats been your favorite aircraft. I loved flying the B727 at KF. Money sucked though MR. BL!

Regards,
CR

[Tan]

Hi CanadaRocks

That’s a hard question, as I like both the Boeing and Airbus products. I have to agree the 727 was a fun airplane the 763 even more fun and the 343 a little underpowered unlike the 345. It appears that I will miss the 787 and the 380 unless some miracle happens but I’m not holding my breath. Heck I like them all..

Wouldn’t it be nice if both Boeing and Airbus designed a joint aircraft using the best ideas of both manufactures.

[jinglied]

Mr "Tan"

Quote..

"It rather entertaining reading all the loser posts by the AC wantabee’s. What’s the matter loser’s, you couldn’t make the grade?"

Quote...

"hotndusty

Whets the matter couldn’t make the grade at AC so you’re hiding out in Dubai?"


Well, for a loser like myself who is "hanging out" with EK in Dubai, for you to suggest that making the grade at AC is so hard, I suggest to you that your thirty years in that company has clouded your senses. I spent a few years at AC a while back, and I will tell you the standards there are certainly no higher than most airlines, including my present one. The basics of your simulator process (AQP), as it was explained to me sounds very "comfortable". (I still have friends in AC with whom I keep in touch) And remember your old version of the FOM, the infamous "550 Manual", the basis of the "550 Course'? Without question the most disjointed Flight Operations Manual I have ever seen. Absolute crap. Credit to you on finally getting rid of that.


"Quote"

"Maybe in the collective wisdom of government a new regulation will be passed prohibiting airlines from losing money."

I have to assume that you are being sarcastic? Although I do recall reading something recently from a member of parliament about reregulating the airline industry? Can't find that article now...



"Quote"

"Unfortunately for you I have over 30 years at AC as a pilot and I recognize AC bashing when I read it."


With respect to you being 30 years at AC, I refer to my comment above. The rest of this quote tells me you have a keen grasp of the obvious.


"Quote"

"You’re just another gutless wonder who never made it.."

..again, I refer to my comments above.



Oh..how to have Air Canada return to profitability? Stop paying F/A's, gate agent's, baggage boys such ridiculous contracts for a start. When a F/A can make more than any brand new F/O, (as happened with me) something is seriously wrong. And it doesn't matter how senior the F/A is OR how junior the F/O. The employment culture within AC is killing it.

P.S. Don't bother coming this way. Dubai, the place, is ****e. Have a nice day.


Jinglie'd

[nolimitholdem]

hey there tan,

Another EK driver checking in. You couldn't pay me enough to work at AC, you see, I'd like to still be employed a year from now. If you think that's hating, think again. I just like a paycheque and you guys are "dead airline walking".

On the other hand, you're smart to resist the Emirates onslaught. There's no way you can compete with the slave labour of most of the airline here. It's crap that guys get a fortune to saunter our to marshall/load an AC flight. Do you really want to compete with people who load/cater/board/maintain EK's aircraft, in short, work their asses off, for peanuts?

So in short, get your head out of your ass. Or you're going to get stuck with the evil bastards we have in management. You do NOT want EK in Canada more than they are. And they are bound and determined, with huge PR campaigns planned and underway. They will parade smiling cute little asian F/A's in front of the cameras, a few people will remark about what great service they had on an EK flight, they'll bribe the government quietly with other incentive money, and voila, another Australia. You won't hear about the human rights abuses in the UAE, the lack of worker protection, the appalling way they treat employees.

You idiots are just making it easy for them to come and eat your lunch.

Think EK isn't coming?

How you can help | Canada | Public Affairs | About Emirates | Emirates

Notice which country is singled out with a special section?

The VP of International Public Relations, Andrew Parker, is a former British journalist. He will work the press against you until you don't know what hit you.

Smarten up!

[Tan]

Thanks for your advice, you folks don’t seem to be enjoying your self’s over there. For me AC flying is still fun.

Our returning international passengers tell us that the sight of the maple leaf on our aircraft makes them feel warm and fuzzy all over so EK has to top that.

Canadians are a funny bunch that way.

[SIERRA ECHO XRAY]

The Perfect no rocket science solution...........

Here is the solution for you all canucks...serve more canadian bacon..

[nolimitholdem]

tan,

Warm and fuzzy because of a Maple Leaf? Come on. If anything, flying DXB-LHR on EK with full service, the best IFE in the world, friendly attractive cabin crew...and then getting on a clapped out old 767 for the leg to Canada with the chipped-paint toilets, crap food and service, the 70's-era projection TV...yeah, I was feeling downright sentimental.

It was one of the more shocking contrasts between two airlines I've ever experienced. Granted, not all of the differences between EK and AC are flattering to EK. But if you think that people's nostalgia over your brand is gonna save you, think again. Perhaps I get misty-eyed about the people I'm traveling to see, but the AC flight is simply something to be endured.

[Saltaire]

Well said nolimitholdem couldn't agree more, the difference between international AC and EK is not even comparable. We use to dread getting on AC from LHR. This is why the gov't is stepping forward and making an about face on "open skies". BA, Cathay, Korean, China, Singapore seem to do pretty well out of Canada...they would rather have warm and fuzzy service and a great product than fly a maple leaf tail. EK would dominate and destroy AC's product all day long, and they know it.

And on the subject on tails...Could AC have a worse livery? The previous one was great and I did feel a bit of pride seeing an AC tail.

I do wish you'd soften the arguement though, many of us would love to start ops to YYC and YVR !

And Tan, most of us make the best of it here, some even love it. EK flies to a far more varied and interesting network, not to mention the superior equipment and younger attractive FA's from the world over.

Making the grade at AC? The most nepotistic dad's buddy, jazz flow through, Irene H gift giving airline going. From another former AC loser , i don't miss it for a second....

[ea340]

Salaire the truth is AC service is better than most US carriers and on par with most European airlines.I have traveled on them all many times over the last 40+ years. AC can not compete with airlines from the far and middle east because they have no labour laws . This cuts both ways as you know you could be fired tomorrow without recourse make labour laws all of a sudden look good. Is EK a good company of course is AC as bad as you think I would say not. What AC needs is to be cut loose from the ACPPA then sink or swim

[Saltaire]

AC is plauged by entitlement, inefficiencies and lack of an intiative culture. We've all heard the stories of senior rampies, cabin crew or agents either selling their seniority shifts or manipulating a dated system all with the support of a union rep close at hand. Having said this, there are great employees from all operations, but there are too many that are not... I always felt sympathetic for the pilots at AC, the rest of the operation needs a serious overhaul.

I agree to a point, the job is certainly more precarious as an expat, but labour laws or lack of it isn't the reason AC can't compete. Overall it's a fundamental difference in work ethic, attitude and training. Look at Cathay and Singapore, including EK, the crew makes the passenger feel like they matter. The overall product and experience is vastly superior in all classes. Do you see any cabin crew as you board an AC flight? Perhaps all chatting in the galleys about dividing up their naps. How about the aircraft waiting for an AC marshaller whom saunters in from a chat with his union buddies? That used to drive me bananas. The attitude outside the flight deck at AC is shocking, and with the merger with Canadian it just became worse. The front line agents, rampies, cabin crew and a few other unions must somehow completely shift the internal culture for the better. Good luck

[ea340]

Saltaire I would say again AC not as bad as you think compared to other Western carriers.The service at EK QR EY is vastly suprior but as you know step out of line in any department and you are gone . So far this year EK has let several pilots go correct me if I'am wrong 2 for taking pics of their airplane.So you are right no unions and no labour laws makes running an airline much easier .In the end it is the passenger service and costs that count . The ACPPA is a cost AC can no longer carry because no one will pay for it. It could be in the end only airlines from low cost countries that survive much like the shipping business. AC moves head office to Bermuda just like Canada Steam Ship lines oh I forgot the ACPPA. Where is Paul when you need him

[Wolfman]

"AC is plauged by entitlement..."

That really does sum it all up.