Why is Air Canada losing so much money and what can done about it?
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Pathetic...
Yup...absolutely NO service of any kind. I just flew to LHR on them. Gear came up and the biscuit shooters were sitting in their rest seats along the bulkheads, reading Cosmo. Only problem is, they're Cosmo wanna be's. The Canadian way...and, for those who want to argue the point...I worked in Canada for 25 years and saw the light and departed. I stand back and look at the way that organization is operating and nothing has changed in the last 13 years....West Jet..another story...what an operation. Clive got it right. Stole the model from PWA and ran with it. Say what you want about WJ, they've got their act together. I wish they had bigger equipment that I could travel on.
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Have a look over at Avcanada.ca and you may get a better idea of whats going on at Air Canada. The ACPPA cost (and continues to cost) millions of dollars due to restrictions that no other airlines in Canada are subject to.
All the cost cutting measures mentioned earlier in this thread were done last time we were in CCAA. Unfortunately those in management were only interested in dismantling the airline and selling off the parts to make a massive amount of money for the shareholders. There has been over 2 BILLION dollars taken out and given away. Management has earned millions of dollars while the company slid downhill and now they're crying poverty...
All the cost cutting measures mentioned earlier in this thread were done last time we were in CCAA. Unfortunately those in management were only interested in dismantling the airline and selling off the parts to make a massive amount of money for the shareholders. There has been over 2 BILLION dollars taken out and given away. Management has earned millions of dollars while the company slid downhill and now they're crying poverty...
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777AV8R so you flew AC because .BA opreates flights every day to Canada amoung others . AC bashing is a national pass time . We will see this week AC fate when the numbers come out
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Yobbo you are right Wardair was great problem of course was Max saw the light and sold to CDN for 60 million. AC's major problem now is the fact they have no assets. Cerberus Capital drained 5 billion out of the company. The same Cerberus that wanted the government to bail them out with Chrysler All AC deserves is a release from the ACPP . Jazz should be allowed into the Island to compete with Porter . The Island should be modeled after the London city center airport Mayor Miller of course would go nuts
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Ward, etc...
Actually, the 60 M was what Max himself received. The transaction was over $550 Million.
Then, here we go about AC...
TORONTO (Reuters) – Air Canada said on Monday it was seeking support from its unions for "a moratorium and other conditions" on funding its more than C$3 billion ($2.5 billion) pension deficit, but at least one of the unions warned against gutting its pension plans.
Concessions from Air Canada's unions, which represent around 18,000 of its employees, are widely seen as crucial to keeping the country's biggest airline from re-entering bankruptcy protection.
Air Canada said in a statement the moratorium would allow it to establish financial certainty over the next several years and help it maintain its defined benefit pension plans.
But the Canadian Auto Workers union, which represents about 4,500 unionized staff at the airline, demanded on Monday that the company continue funding its pension plan.
"If the company insists on getting rid of the pensions, they'll have the fight of their life, by not only the CAW, but all the unionized employees of Air Canada," said Leslie Dias, president of CAW Local 2002.
Dias said the last time Air Canada went into bankruptcy protection, in 2003, CAW members gave up the equivalent of 20 percent of the overall labor costs, and the company is still in dire straights.
Cameron Doerksen, aerospace analyst at Versant Partners, said funding its pension deficit is a "significant problem" for Air Canada but so are the large debt repayments the airline faces as well as the renegotiation of several union contracts.
"All three of those things combined result in a significant degree of uncertainty around Air Canada," Doerksen said.
Air Canada spokeswoman Angela Mah declined to comment further on Monday's brief statement.
The collective agreement between Air Canada and the CAW-- the country's largest private-sector union -- expires at the end of the month.
The CAW presented a five-point plan on Monday designed to keep the airline out of creditor protection. The proposals included a call for the federal government to retake a stake in the airline, which was privatized by Ottawa in the late 1980s.
"An equity stake in the national carrier would allow the government to make sure that the communities stay connected from one end of this country to the other," said CAW President Ken Lewenza. "The fact of the matter is, when Air Canada is in the air, Air Canada represents Canada."
The union also called on Ottawa to block the windup of Air Canada parent ACE Aviation Holdings and to reinvest the company's capital in the airline.
The plan would also see new regulations on capacity in the airline industry and the creation of a federal fund to backstop pension guarantees.
Finally, the union said it would like to block all future bonuses to ACE Chief Executive Robert Milton.
The union said that Milton has received tens of millions of dollars in compensation since 2003, and will receive millions more upon the successful windup of ACE, while Air Canada itself is now worth only slightly more than C$80 million.
"Our members are demoralized by the fact that ... their sacrifices have, in the end, benefited only a few," said Dias.
Air Canada has recently cut capacity by 7 percent, resulting in 2,000 layoffs, and has been working to raise capital to shore up its balance sheet.
Shares of Air Canada were up 4 Canadian cents at 84 Canadian cents on the Toronto Stock Exchange, while ACE was up 1 Canadian cent at C$5.13.
The CAW is whats wrong, along with the rest of the organization.
Then, here we go about AC...
TORONTO (Reuters) – Air Canada said on Monday it was seeking support from its unions for "a moratorium and other conditions" on funding its more than C$3 billion ($2.5 billion) pension deficit, but at least one of the unions warned against gutting its pension plans.
Concessions from Air Canada's unions, which represent around 18,000 of its employees, are widely seen as crucial to keeping the country's biggest airline from re-entering bankruptcy protection.
Air Canada said in a statement the moratorium would allow it to establish financial certainty over the next several years and help it maintain its defined benefit pension plans.
But the Canadian Auto Workers union, which represents about 4,500 unionized staff at the airline, demanded on Monday that the company continue funding its pension plan.
"If the company insists on getting rid of the pensions, they'll have the fight of their life, by not only the CAW, but all the unionized employees of Air Canada," said Leslie Dias, president of CAW Local 2002.
Dias said the last time Air Canada went into bankruptcy protection, in 2003, CAW members gave up the equivalent of 20 percent of the overall labor costs, and the company is still in dire straights.
Cameron Doerksen, aerospace analyst at Versant Partners, said funding its pension deficit is a "significant problem" for Air Canada but so are the large debt repayments the airline faces as well as the renegotiation of several union contracts.
"All three of those things combined result in a significant degree of uncertainty around Air Canada," Doerksen said.
Air Canada spokeswoman Angela Mah declined to comment further on Monday's brief statement.
The collective agreement between Air Canada and the CAW-- the country's largest private-sector union -- expires at the end of the month.
The CAW presented a five-point plan on Monday designed to keep the airline out of creditor protection. The proposals included a call for the federal government to retake a stake in the airline, which was privatized by Ottawa in the late 1980s.
"An equity stake in the national carrier would allow the government to make sure that the communities stay connected from one end of this country to the other," said CAW President Ken Lewenza. "The fact of the matter is, when Air Canada is in the air, Air Canada represents Canada."
The union also called on Ottawa to block the windup of Air Canada parent ACE Aviation Holdings and to reinvest the company's capital in the airline.
The plan would also see new regulations on capacity in the airline industry and the creation of a federal fund to backstop pension guarantees.
Finally, the union said it would like to block all future bonuses to ACE Chief Executive Robert Milton.
The union said that Milton has received tens of millions of dollars in compensation since 2003, and will receive millions more upon the successful windup of ACE, while Air Canada itself is now worth only slightly more than C$80 million.
"Our members are demoralized by the fact that ... their sacrifices have, in the end, benefited only a few," said Dias.
Air Canada has recently cut capacity by 7 percent, resulting in 2,000 layoffs, and has been working to raise capital to shore up its balance sheet.
Shares of Air Canada were up 4 Canadian cents at 84 Canadian cents on the Toronto Stock Exchange, while ACE was up 1 Canadian cent at C$5.13.
The CAW is whats wrong, along with the rest of the organization.
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777AV8R you of are right it was 550 million but of course Max was looking after Max. The unions are an issue but in the end Cerberus drained the airline. Then there is the contracts. Cerberus had AC sign with Jazz and Aeroplan. This Friday AC releases the latest results . If AC goes down the GTAA will soon follow I suspect .Will become a political issue in Quebec and Ontario The GTAA is the most expensive airport in the world to oprerate out of no wonder Porter picked the Island. Narita is 2nd by a long margin about 60%. Correct me if I'am wrong but the GTAA is 26th or so by operations in the world .
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Expenses, etc...
Actually, I've been out of the Canadian scene for so long, I'm not sure how much it costs the GTAA to run that place. I can only imagine that its a mill stone around their neck. As for the AC deal, can you picture this 'made in Canada' solution: The Feds force West Jet to buy 'big red'. I'm being facetious, of course.
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I'm curious as to how heavily invested in WestJet stock the Federal NDP are. Between the Passengers Bill of Rights proposed by NDP MP Jim Maloway , to this proposed legislation by MP Peter Julian, they seem bound and determined to do everything within their power to keep Air Canada from ever making a profit.
Now, i'm not the world's biggest Air Canada fan, and I avoid flying them whenever I can, but I have SERIOUS issues with government telling private business how they should operate, especially people like Julian and Maloway who, IMO, have zero understanding of what running an airline and the challenges involved are. When government starts telling a private business what to do, well, we have problems...
Now, i'm not the world's biggest Air Canada fan, and I avoid flying them whenever I can, but I have SERIOUS issues with government telling private business how they should operate, especially people like Julian and Maloway who, IMO, have zero understanding of what running an airline and the challenges involved are. When government starts telling a private business what to do, well, we have problems...
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
May 6, 2009
NDP BILL WOULD LET AIR CANADA CREATE JOBS IN VANCOUVER
Ottawa – Peter Julian, MP (Burnaby-New Westminster) and NDP International Trade Critic, today tabled a Private Member’s Bill in the House of Commons, Bill C-379, An Act to amend the Air Canada Public Participation Act. The Bill would amend section 6(c) of the act to require an “operational and overhaul centre” for Air Canada in Vancouver, British Columbia.
“Vancouver is the gateway to the Asia-Pacific world and a major centre for domestic and international travel. Air Canada is important to us, not just to maintain Canada’s air lift capacity but also to ensure that high skilled jobs are created and retained all across the country including in BC”, stated Julian.
At critical points in its history, Air Canada has been the regular recipient of public funding in order to ensure it remains as a national airline capable of serving not only business interests, but the national interest of the travelling public. The Bill would improve service to Canadian travelers by allowing for more planes to be serviced and maintained in the BC region. It would also ensure that service and safety positions such as stewards and flight attendants are maintained in BC.
“It is fundamentally important strategically to keep those high skilled jobs in Canada and that our transport infrastructure needs to be served by appropriate made-in-Canada infrastructure. The creation of an operational and overhaul centre for Air Canada is consistent with this vision for a national transportation system built in the public interest.”
May 6, 2009
NDP BILL WOULD LET AIR CANADA CREATE JOBS IN VANCOUVER
Ottawa – Peter Julian, MP (Burnaby-New Westminster) and NDP International Trade Critic, today tabled a Private Member’s Bill in the House of Commons, Bill C-379, An Act to amend the Air Canada Public Participation Act. The Bill would amend section 6(c) of the act to require an “operational and overhaul centre” for Air Canada in Vancouver, British Columbia.
“Vancouver is the gateway to the Asia-Pacific world and a major centre for domestic and international travel. Air Canada is important to us, not just to maintain Canada’s air lift capacity but also to ensure that high skilled jobs are created and retained all across the country including in BC”, stated Julian.
At critical points in its history, Air Canada has been the regular recipient of public funding in order to ensure it remains as a national airline capable of serving not only business interests, but the national interest of the travelling public. The Bill would improve service to Canadian travelers by allowing for more planes to be serviced and maintained in the BC region. It would also ensure that service and safety positions such as stewards and flight attendants are maintained in BC.
“It is fundamentally important strategically to keep those high skilled jobs in Canada and that our transport infrastructure needs to be served by appropriate made-in-Canada infrastructure. The creation of an operational and overhaul centre for Air Canada is consistent with this vision for a national transportation system built in the public interest.”
Last edited by YHZChick; 11th May 2009 at 12:52.
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I've encountered poor service approx 3 years ago & the lack of concern from their head office was the icing on the cake for me. Approx 100 passengers were left to fend for themselves when our flight was cancelled between Toronto & Detroit at Pearson.In short, approx 1 hour from scheduled departure a delay was announced;people started questioning ground staff at the gate(pushy americans,I thought-silly me I realized in hindsight);I opted to approach another AC employee who emerged to explain I needed to make the flight to be able to connect from Detroit the next morning back to Australia;I'd be updated I was told;shift changes started happening;news now only coming from one staffer that the flight was cancelled-no other flights there for the day;no one else coming down to "sort this out" we were told & with some relunctance we were given boarding cards for a Northwest flight in another terminal/locate our checked bags/& check ourselves in less than an hour to do so.The luck ones who pushed seemed to have made the flight but I was greatful I wasn't travelling with my wife and two kids.Look in the big scheme of things,if this is the worst that happens to me I'm leading a very fortunate life. But,one the ground staff didn't care/have training to cope and secondly,head office replied afterwards to my concern with "we value your feedback" email reponse.I heard nothing further. Sorry,passing buck to me. I won't trust AC when next planning the journey between Australia and Canada.
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Jazz totally seperate company much like Comair and Colgan. I think you will find the agents are Jazz but could be wrong . But as usual AC takes the hit. Do not get me wrong AC has major problems but I could give examples on every major carrier and may I add even Westjet .The question should they get government help no but the government should also free them of the ACA and see what happens. I see the new Boss has a vested interest in seeing AC survive interesting .
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The agents are Jazz and Jazz does not operate any equipment that could seat 100 folks, whatever. There has to be more to this fairy tale there always is..
He's already made a tidy profit on his vested shares so I agree he has a vested interest in the long-term survival of AC.
He's already made a tidy profit on his vested shares so I agree he has a vested interest in the long-term survival of AC.
Actually in YYZ, all the CSR's ground staff are AC, only the pilots, FA's mechanics, and MiniStoc are Jazz employees, with a smattering of others. I'm pretty sure Detroit personnel are United
