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Westjet: No injuries when 737’s wing hits runway

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Westjet: No injuries when 737’s wing hits runway

Old 28th Dec 2005, 04:42
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Grrr Westjet: No injuries when 737’s wing hits runway

1st major for these chaps.


http://www.herald.ns.ca/Front/473606.html

No injuries when 737’s wing hits runway

By DAVENE JEFFREY Staff Reporter

No one was injured when the wing of a WestJet Boeing 737 hit the runway at Halifax International Airport Christmas evening, but air industry officials are investigating.

"This is the first significant incident that we’ve had," said a spokeswoman for the Calgary-based airline, which has been in business for the past 10 years.

All 130 passengers and six crew members on board Flight 178, which originated in Toronto, were uninjured, Gillian Bentley said.

"On landing, the left wing touched the ground," Ms. Bentley confirmed.

Until that point, there had been nothing unusual about the instrument landing approach, she said. She could not say what caused the accident, which occurred at about 7:25 p.m.

"WestJet will be doing a full investigation," she said. Investigators with the Transportation Safety Board will also look into the incident.

The accident left some debris on the runway, and the plane has been taken out of operation, Ms. Bentley said. The airport had two runways operating at the time of the accident, airport authority spokeswoman Gina Connell said.

"We did have a number of cancellations and diversions due to dense ground-level fog," Ms. Connell said.

The affected runway was closed for a short period after the accident for an inspection and then was reopened, an official with Nav Canada confirmed Monday.

The flight had been scheduled to continue on to Newfoundland. Passengers were taken off that plane and put on a later flight the same evening, Ms. Bentley said.

Delays at the Halifax airport continued Boxing Day but were apparently unrelated to the accident or conditions here.

"There has been a large number of delays due to weather in Toronto and Montreal," Ms. Connell said.

"This morning, there were a lot of long lineups at the airport," she said.

Among those held up by fog in Halifax on Christmas Day were Kathryn Davies and her boyfriend, who were heading to her home in Windsor. The pair flew out of Los Angeles in the morning but had to stay overnight in Montreal when their flight to Halifax was cancelled.

"It was a $350 layover," Ms. Davies said, adding that her Boxing Day brunch at the Hilton paled in comparison to being home at her mother’s table. The couple eventually got a flight to Halifax in the afternoon.

"We’re pretty worn out," Ms. Davies said during a cellphone interview shortly before 6 p.m. as the couple were driving from the airport to the Valley.

Ms. Davies has seen a lot of airports during the past few days. The 35-year-old stage manager, who had been working in the Middle East, flew into Los Angeles to meet her boyfriend earlier this week.

At home, her parents, sister and an aunt who had come from Wales for the holidays had put their Christmas festivities on hold until Ms. Davies’ arrival.

"It’s the family annual lobster dinner I’m waiting for," Ms. Davies said.

According to the airport authority’s website, most flights in and out of Halifax were expected to be close to on time Monday evening.

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Old 28th Dec 2005, 08:29
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So a question then...what would the bank angle have to be to scrape a wing tip? And would weather be a contributing factor? Gotta love the media though...does anyone really care about the last few comments and how much brunch costs at the hotel...$350??? Why bother? How about some room service? Or maybe just the special please...
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Old 28th Dec 2005, 17:19
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Question

The rumor says the LCC WJ 737-700 left wingtip, canoe and aileron were damaged. The major carrier (AC) serving Halifax had cancelled some of its flights due to the foggy weather. Two AC Jazz RJ's flights landed successfully just prior to the WJ attempt and another AC flight was holding waiting for the RVR's to improve.
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Old 28th Dec 2005, 20:37
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West Jet...

...not too bright...

...but then again apparently they are owned by the employees.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 00:58
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From another thread, Quoted from innuendo.

"Allup, date registered, 28 Dec 2005, first post 28 Dec 2005, above comment has whiff of troll to it,"

You seem to have a beef with WJ, watch what you say it might come back to haunt you. We all know incidents,accidents and mistakes happen in aviation. I would say WJ has a good track record.
We don't need to get into a "what happend battle" with other Canadian carrieres but we both know everyone company has something they wish had not happend.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 01:19
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Although it is still in the preliminary stage, I'm willing to bet the boys broke minimums, aka "shouldn't have been there doing that". I hear this is normal ops out west. It was reported that others were holding. Cowboys will be cowboys. This time, nobody got hurt. They brought along the horse shoe.
 
Old 29th Dec 2005, 01:59
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If you read the other articles you will see that 2 RJ's landed before them. I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions with the little facts available, and making unwarranted acusations such as implying that western pilot's are not as safe as easterners. It seems premature and imature.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 03:31
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Still waiting on the answer to my original question...what's the bank angle? Thanks...
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 12:04
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If the rumor is accurate the reported damage would probably be consistence with a high nose low wing high impact touchdown event. As the Boeing limitations do not take into account combinations of events we’ll have to wait for the accident investigators to complete their report.

However experienced flight crew realize that “ for the grace of God go I”..


WJMan

I've heard fellow WJ employees refer to their pilots as "The Blue Cowboys" so perhaps its a WJ culture thing.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 14:22
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actually has to do with their company colours, and that they are out of Calgary. Cowboy country.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 16:07
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Watch your mouth Brucelee;

Repeating as fact things that you have heard in this business will damage your already sorry internet credibility. Your diaherra of the keyboard doesn't make you an expert on anything at all.
If you'd like to begin a name calling match, "Pompous Ass" comes to mind.

I will however agree with your equally pompous friend Tan and put this incident in the " There but for the grace of god, go I" column.
About 15 years ago, I personally flew two of your AMEs to YYG, where it had been 1200RVR for days.
The reason was to repair a broken nav light fairing on a DC-9. Remarkably, the nav light itself was undamaged. The pilots had struck the wingtip after completing a 1200 RVR approach. Were they Cowboys? I think not. Pompous asses, likely so. Does **** happen? It certainly does.

You guys have got Westjet culture all wrong. The culture is a way of doing business, not a way of flying airplanes. Our pilots, (in 06 our numbers will top 800) come from all corners of Canada and the globe, representing dozens of Airlines and Air Forces. It would be supremely arrogant of you to thing of us all as cowboys.
Supreme arrogance seems to be the hallmark of your own culture. Were you not the same pilots who demonstrated on Parliment Hill no less, when Max Ward bought his first 747, believing, truly in your hearts, that you were the only ones in the nation suitably qualified to operate such a machine?

Be careful gentlemen, you are not the only ones with lawyers on the flight deck. If your libelous statements are found to be damaging to our businesss, you are leaving yourself open to litigation.

Mr. Tan, in five years at WJ, I have not heard the term " blue cowboy" and would take exception if I did on two fronts. I do not fly like a cowboy, nor do I dress like one.
Having said that, lots of people in Alberta do dress like cowboys, because they are cowboys. Alberta, like all parts of Canada( or the world) is unique. Our task, as Westjetters, is to draw upon that uniqueness, wherever it may come from and make it a part of our strength.
You would be wise to do the same, instead of giving everyone a Soviet Navy hat.
Finally, could someone tell me what LCC means in front of the reference to 737-700 in Tan's second last post? I am unfamiliar with this acronym.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 16:49
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Although it is still in the preliminary stage, I'm willing to bet the boys broke minimums, aka "shouldn't have been there doing that". I hear this is normal ops out west. It was reported that others were holding. Cowboys will be cowboys. This time, nobody got hurt. They brought along the horse shoe.
Always remember that the reason we have low energy go-around training in Canada is because of the RJ in YFC. Was that a cultural problem or a procedural one? While we could say it was a culture of arrogance that it happened, really we have all benefited from the incident in our own way. I hope that in my career I can learn from the mistakes of others all the while I realize that many could learn from my mistakes as well.

As far as the culture of busting minimums I think that we're way past that in Canada right now and maybe it makes you feel morally superior to believe that it still occurs. With SMS and FOQA WestJet is leading the way in using technology to prevent accidents and to get a true picture of what is happening on the line. Maybe you should ask why ACPA is preventing the full implementation of FOQA for fear of recrimination and punishment.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 17:21
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Jumpy.
I beg to differ. We, at AC have been practicing low energy go- around long before Freddie. It wouldn't have done those guys any good that night. As far as being leaders in anything, you gotta be kidding me to compare yourself to the efforts and work that ACPA and AC have done over the decades. Busting minimums is not a WJ normal practice but is a reputation earned as many navcan controllers can vouch for. I am not drawing to any conclusions until a final report is out. Some things just seem to stand out. AC and ACPA have admitted that the RJ should not have been there that night in Freddie. So far, you guys just seem to want to talk about the RJ.
 
Old 29th Dec 2005, 17:41
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This is a scraped wingtip....while we don't want to minimalize it, it is a minor incident. How many scraped wingtips have occured on the RJ, or the DC-9 for that matter. As far as busting minimums, I can't speak for all 650 pilots online but I can say that we have ZERO pressure from management to get in and we are never questioned if we decide to miss, not conduct the approach or cancel a flight. I cannot say the same of my time at Jazz.

The FOQA program gives a real time picture of what is happening on the line. We know exactly what is happening on the line from all 650 pilots. The program can speak to our safety program and how it is working. You cannot say the same thing at AC because the culture is of fear of reprisal and suspicion toward motives. What really galls me is the perpetuation of the myth that Low Cost=unsafe. You say that your controller friends say that we bust minimums all the time. If this were the case they would be legally obligated to report this and investigations would be launched. Otherwise it's just an urban myth.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 18:00
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Jumpy.

We do have a reporting system which records everything and the pilot's names are de-identified. As well, big brother is always watching. They even know if have had an overspeed condition. We cannot hide anything, nor does our culture allow it. We have taken great pride in the relationship we have with management when it comes to safety related subjects.

Mr. Soix- whatever.
I seem to have stated some facts which touch a nerve. As your place gets busier and bigger, you will have more incidents.
It's part of operating a big airline.
Hopefully no-one will get hurt.
I personally think that the more you and your leaders describe yourselves as perfect, the more people will keep an eye out on you and you will have to answer the hard questions. Yes, AC has been there too. And when the **** hits the fan, be ready to take it like a man. Not some threatening, arrogant dip****. And you really have me in stiches with your "pompous ass" name calling. We all know who the real pompous ass is in this industry. His name is Clive and seems to have had some effect on some of his pilots. Happy trails partner.
 
Old 29th Dec 2005, 18:18
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My dog's better than your dog.....
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 18:28
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Pretty sad isn't it?
 
Old 29th Dec 2005, 19:05
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Hey jumpy737

This is an excerpt of a post submitted by rigpiggy.


"A/C is in IMP hangar for sheetmetal. RHI that the wingtip, outboard canoe and aileron are being worked on. This is indicative of a nose high/bank angle as previously described."

Hmm that's a long stretch from your scraped wing tip. Another urban myth?

le soixante neuf

What a dip stick you are and very deserving of the term "Blue Cowboy". I wondered why fellow WJ employees would refer to their pilots in such a derogatory way and you just proved it. Oh and I'm from AB..

When are you WJ folks going to get some accountability for your actions? If you hadn't been so arrogant in the first place putting down all the other Canadian carriers no one would have paid any attention to this accident. Great culture you got, it seems to come from the top..

Last edited by Tan; 29th Dec 2005 at 19:18.
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Old 29th Dec 2005, 21:03
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FWIW

An ex-Royal mate of mine once said,
"There are those who HAVE. Those who WILL, and those who say NEVER are full of sh*t!!!"

jumpy737 actually sounds like a credible Professional Pilot, so a couple of you would be well advise to sit up and listen. Especially those who weren't actually looking out the 'front' window at minimums when it was called.

How do you equate busting minimums with bending a wing tip based upon what's been written in this thread? It'll all come out in the wash and with it the facts. For now it's just an accusation none of us could ever prove, anyway.

They got a busted aeroplane sitting in YHZ costing them a lot of dough and adverse publicity. Not the first time it's happened and it won't be the last.

We've enjoyed a fairly safe accident record in Canada. For NOW. But, that's likely to change in the years ahead as 'experienced' crew retire, head overseas or simply leave the business in disgust. Inexperience has already reared it's ugly head and the lack of experience at rapidly expanding carriers means someone's on the fast track to disaster so, heads up.

I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. But like I said, there are those....

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Old 30th Dec 2005, 05:14
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When are you WJ folks going to get some accountability for your actions? If you hadn't been so arrogant in the first place putting down all the other Canadian carriers no one would have paid any attention to this accident. Great culture you got, it seems to come from the top..
You are one piece of work, my pathetic friend.

"I hate the CEO of Westjet so it's ok if I spread myth and hearsay...."
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