Hard Landing...
Join Date: Jun 2005
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I am very sorry that your sense of humour is lacking and you could not see the attempt to make a little lighter of a very seriuos situation. Immaturity however is not the case. Ignorance of the symantics of aircraft carriers, yes, but not immaturity. However, where my ignorance on the semantics is far over-shadowed by your ignorance on what really happened. Yes, hard landings do happen. However, I have yet to see many pictures of such damage. I encourage you to point some out to me. I would really be curious to see how common this is.
I only put in my two cents on this whole thing because I am very tired of the assumption of those who were not there that nobody was hurt. This is very inaccurate and I don't know where these details come from. No, there was no blood or broken bones, but there was whiplash, jarred backs and emotional trauma. As a matter of fact at the airport before the return flight, I was speaking with an individual whos 4 year old child woke up with nightmares for the first half of the vacation. She kept reliving the events in here dreams. Now you try to convince me that that child was not hurt!
Finally, I did not say that I will never fly again. I haven't decided yet. What I did say was that I would never fly with Skyservice again. And I reiterate that this is not based soley on the incident. That actually has very little bearing. I state again, that it is based primarily on the lack of customer service around the entire event. Not to mention the rudeness of the flight attendents and the Skyservice personel that I spoke with today. People may be interested in know that Skyservice is "compiling a list of all of the passengers" again, a direct quote from them, so that they can send us a letter and our coupons. This shows once again how their customer service lacks. They are waiting for us to contact them to give us our address and names so that they can contact us. They don't even have the courtesy to extend and olive branch and check the records where we are all listed with full names, addresses and passports and make the first contact. Dispicable.
I only put in my two cents on this whole thing because I am very tired of the assumption of those who were not there that nobody was hurt. This is very inaccurate and I don't know where these details come from. No, there was no blood or broken bones, but there was whiplash, jarred backs and emotional trauma. As a matter of fact at the airport before the return flight, I was speaking with an individual whos 4 year old child woke up with nightmares for the first half of the vacation. She kept reliving the events in here dreams. Now you try to convince me that that child was not hurt!
Finally, I did not say that I will never fly again. I haven't decided yet. What I did say was that I would never fly with Skyservice again. And I reiterate that this is not based soley on the incident. That actually has very little bearing. I state again, that it is based primarily on the lack of customer service around the entire event. Not to mention the rudeness of the flight attendents and the Skyservice personel that I spoke with today. People may be interested in know that Skyservice is "compiling a list of all of the passengers" again, a direct quote from them, so that they can send us a letter and our coupons. This shows once again how their customer service lacks. They are waiting for us to contact them to give us our address and names so that they can contact us. They don't even have the courtesy to extend and olive branch and check the records where we are all listed with full names, addresses and passports and make the first contact. Dispicable.
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Yeah if I had a sick sence of humour maybe I would have found it funny.
Anyways Im not going to continue on with this post as I am heading to bed.
Heres a pic it took 2 secounds to find.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...5&tbl=ACCIDENT
Anyways Im not going to continue on with this post as I am heading to bed.
Heres a pic it took 2 secounds to find.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...5&tbl=ACCIDENT
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Judge as you may. People deal with trauma differntly and if you find that sick that it is probably a good thing that you were not on the bus going to the airport for our return flight. Those who weren't crying silently in their seats were cracking far more jokes than that one. Ever heard that sense of humour lightens a load? As an individual who works in mental health, I can attest to its great aid.
And thank you for the single photo. That proves that it has happened at least once before. But it still does not clear Skyservice of its poor handling of the situation.
And thank you for the single photo. That proves that it has happened at least once before. But it still does not clear Skyservice of its poor handling of the situation.
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You might want to read this as well...if you havent already, proves that it has happened much more then just once before.
goodnight
http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/fsat/fsat9506.txt
goodnight
http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/fsat/fsat9506.txt
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But what does it say about Skyservice and their lack of service? Not to much.
And your post tells me that pilot error is a cause. So much so that it outlined in their training manual to prevent such incidents from happening.
And your post tells me that pilot error is a cause. So much so that it outlined in their training manual to prevent such incidents from happening.
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crys8494: I'm sorry that you had such a terrifying experience. Have you been to see a doctor about your injuries? Substantial injuries such as those you are describing need to be looked at quickly.
I'm very curious about the pictures of the interior of the plane that you have. Good for you for having the presence of mind to take photographs after the horrific experience you went through. Most people would not have been thinking so clearly. I would be very interested to see the carnage in the cabin.
I'm a little confused by a couple of your posts. You stated "...you read me very incorrectly. I did not ask a FA for any information. " yet in an earlier post you said "the flight attendent was telling me that landings like that happen all of the time." Which one was it? You asked an FA or you didn't? Because as CDNFA stated, to ask a uniformed FA who probably wasn't even there to speculate on what happened is hardly fair, is it? It's precisely what you're accusing CDNFA of. Speculating.
You stated "I never claimed to know the facts or the exact details." yet in an earlier post you said "And there was clearly pilot error. This comes from many individuals who have flown many times in the past." That sounds like a factual statement to me.
As for the comments regarding the pilots, I have to agree with CDNFA that the original post was immature. Whether the pilots looked young or not is neither here nor there. I, myself, am in my late 30s yet am often asked for ID in drinking establishments. Appearance means nothing. And if they ARE young, I have no doubt that they are also well trained and highly qualified individuals.
I quote you once again and suggest you perhaps take your own advice. "In sum, if you don't know what the heck you are talking about, keep it to yourself!"
I suggest you read through the thread slowly and see what is being said about incidents such as this. Educate yourself. There is a lot of helpful information there.
The only other thing I will comment on is that I have no idea how you were 'handled' by Skyservice. If it was as cold and unhelpful as you state, that is unfortunate. However, I'll take it with a grain of salt given the inconsistencies in the rest of your posts.
It is fair to say that this was no doubt a frightening experience for someone who doesn't fly regularly, but to start your comments with accusations causes you to lose some credibility immediately.
Good luck with everything.
I'm very curious about the pictures of the interior of the plane that you have. Good for you for having the presence of mind to take photographs after the horrific experience you went through. Most people would not have been thinking so clearly. I would be very interested to see the carnage in the cabin.
I'm a little confused by a couple of your posts. You stated "...you read me very incorrectly. I did not ask a FA for any information. " yet in an earlier post you said "the flight attendent was telling me that landings like that happen all of the time." Which one was it? You asked an FA or you didn't? Because as CDNFA stated, to ask a uniformed FA who probably wasn't even there to speculate on what happened is hardly fair, is it? It's precisely what you're accusing CDNFA of. Speculating.
You stated "I never claimed to know the facts or the exact details." yet in an earlier post you said "And there was clearly pilot error. This comes from many individuals who have flown many times in the past." That sounds like a factual statement to me.
As for the comments regarding the pilots, I have to agree with CDNFA that the original post was immature. Whether the pilots looked young or not is neither here nor there. I, myself, am in my late 30s yet am often asked for ID in drinking establishments. Appearance means nothing. And if they ARE young, I have no doubt that they are also well trained and highly qualified individuals.
I quote you once again and suggest you perhaps take your own advice. "In sum, if you don't know what the heck you are talking about, keep it to yourself!"
I suggest you read through the thread slowly and see what is being said about incidents such as this. Educate yourself. There is a lot of helpful information there.
The only other thing I will comment on is that I have no idea how you were 'handled' by Skyservice. If it was as cold and unhelpful as you state, that is unfortunate. However, I'll take it with a grain of salt given the inconsistencies in the rest of your posts.
It is fair to say that this was no doubt a frightening experience for someone who doesn't fly regularly, but to start your comments with accusations causes you to lose some credibility immediately.
Good luck with everything.
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crys8494
Regardless of there age, these pilots will be fully qualified and more than competent to fly that type of aircraft. Are you aware of the amount of training any pilot must go through prior to being allowed to fly for money, and the continued evaluation on everything from that day forward, health, skills, etc!
Pilots are probably the most tested, checked and evaluated profession on the planet.
Obviously they had a bad day, everyone has them at work, just not everyone is in the public eye. You did sustain some injuries? Therefore make your claim if that’s what your after and let the correct authorities make there judgment on the incident.
YYZ
Regardless of there age, these pilots will be fully qualified and more than competent to fly that type of aircraft. Are you aware of the amount of training any pilot must go through prior to being allowed to fly for money, and the continued evaluation on everything from that day forward, health, skills, etc!
Pilots are probably the most tested, checked and evaluated profession on the planet.
Obviously they had a bad day, everyone has them at work, just not everyone is in the public eye. You did sustain some injuries? Therefore make your claim if that’s what your after and let the correct authorities make there judgment on the incident.
YYZ
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"No...we did not realize the extent of the damage of the plane until we saw the outside and reviewed our own photos of the exterior, but we did know that something went very wrong. I also know that I was in tears, in fear for 2 days before getting back on the plane"
I highly doubt that you got back on the same plane, apparently has been announced that the aircraft must be repaired in place (no surprise) and in fact will probably be written off due to repair costs.
I do agree with I need a name though, if you have the injuries you describe, you should have seen a doctor upon your arrival in the Dominican Republic, which I am sure would have been covered by Skyservice due to the nature of the injury.
I highly doubt that you got back on the same plane, apparently has been announced that the aircraft must be repaired in place (no surprise) and in fact will probably be written off due to repair costs.
I do agree with I need a name though, if you have the injuries you describe, you should have seen a doctor upon your arrival in the Dominican Republic, which I am sure would have been covered by Skyservice due to the nature of the injury.
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First and formost, I did not ask for any information from the flight attendant. It was volunteered to me as I was in tears and upset over the next flight.
But in the end, there is code of blue here. One statement was made regarding the pilots. All else was regarding Skyservice and their treatment. I am a Canadian, not an American and suing is not in our nature, nor will this route be followed. You seem caught up on that idea from me. Yes, if I was going to sue, I would have been examined right away and I definately would have taken more pictures that I did. Instead, I merely took pictures of the masks that fell and in looking at these pictures afterwards, other items very clearly showed up.
I don't care how much training they had and I have better things to do that to go back through your posts and "quote you". If I did though, I am sure that I would find your so called holes as well. My story has never changed, nor has my intent.
I am angry, I am hurt. Yes. Will I persue Skyservice? No. However, they do need to be accountable. People were hurt. It is a bold faced lie to say otherwise. Yes, they put us on a different plane, 2 different ones infact. I would be an idiot to feel that they would to otherwise. My terror was not in the particular plane, but in the general plane that I would boarding. On that note, Skyservice did not even notify us on what was happening. We showed up at the airport and checked in. While we were waiting for our plane, we realized that people were at both gates 6 and 7. It wasn't until planes were called that we realized for certain that there were different ones, both numbered 561, but one was obscurly referred to with an 8 in front of it. People were still confused upon boarding as to why their friends were on another plane and wondering if they got on the right one.
Skyservice staff was short and unfriendly both coming and going, but this was worse on the return flight.
With that, I feel no further need to defend myself. I was there. I know what happened. I know what the reprocutions were. I know what the actions of Skyservice were. You stick to your code of silence, but be warned that the further you take this, the further your profession is suffering as a number of individuals who were on the plane are following the insensitive and ignorant conversation and comments that you are making here. Boats are more and more looking like a better option.
Cheers (as I have discovered I am supposed to sublimly state after I throw a knife in here)
Crys
But in the end, there is code of blue here. One statement was made regarding the pilots. All else was regarding Skyservice and their treatment. I am a Canadian, not an American and suing is not in our nature, nor will this route be followed. You seem caught up on that idea from me. Yes, if I was going to sue, I would have been examined right away and I definately would have taken more pictures that I did. Instead, I merely took pictures of the masks that fell and in looking at these pictures afterwards, other items very clearly showed up.
I don't care how much training they had and I have better things to do that to go back through your posts and "quote you". If I did though, I am sure that I would find your so called holes as well. My story has never changed, nor has my intent.
I am angry, I am hurt. Yes. Will I persue Skyservice? No. However, they do need to be accountable. People were hurt. It is a bold faced lie to say otherwise. Yes, they put us on a different plane, 2 different ones infact. I would be an idiot to feel that they would to otherwise. My terror was not in the particular plane, but in the general plane that I would boarding. On that note, Skyservice did not even notify us on what was happening. We showed up at the airport and checked in. While we were waiting for our plane, we realized that people were at both gates 6 and 7. It wasn't until planes were called that we realized for certain that there were different ones, both numbered 561, but one was obscurly referred to with an 8 in front of it. People were still confused upon boarding as to why their friends were on another plane and wondering if they got on the right one.
Skyservice staff was short and unfriendly both coming and going, but this was worse on the return flight.
With that, I feel no further need to defend myself. I was there. I know what happened. I know what the reprocutions were. I know what the actions of Skyservice were. You stick to your code of silence, but be warned that the further you take this, the further your profession is suffering as a number of individuals who were on the plane are following the insensitive and ignorant conversation and comments that you are making here. Boats are more and more looking like a better option.
Cheers (as I have discovered I am supposed to sublimly state after I throw a knife in here)
Crys
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Crys:
I've read all of your posts, and I think it might be best if you refrain from posting in future...
Whilst the internet is an excellent medium, you can easily make a complete hash of it, by immature, conflicting and wayward comments which don't produce facts, evidence nor rational ideas.
That said, I am sure all professional aircrew feel for you during this incident, and hope you feel better soon.
In the meantime, let's just stick to the facts - which include the fact that maritime travel is many times more dangerous than travelling by air...
I've read all of your posts, and I think it might be best if you refrain from posting in future...
Whilst the internet is an excellent medium, you can easily make a complete hash of it, by immature, conflicting and wayward comments which don't produce facts, evidence nor rational ideas.
That said, I am sure all professional aircrew feel for you during this incident, and hope you feel better soon.
In the meantime, let's just stick to the facts - which include the fact that maritime travel is many times more dangerous than travelling by air...
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Hello Crys.
"I also know that I was in tears, in fear for 2 days before getting back on the plane"
I was just wondering why you didnt stay for your whole vacation like all the other passengers aboard this flight.... im sure they were in fear for the 7 days they were in punta cana.
I think u may be a fraud
"I also know that I was in tears, in fear for 2 days before getting back on the plane"
I was just wondering why you didnt stay for your whole vacation like all the other passengers aboard this flight.... im sure they were in fear for the 7 days they were in punta cana.
I think u may be a fraud
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Crys I suspect is a journalist, although the poor English grammar suggests otherwise.
Why would a passenger on the flight sign up to the Professional Pilots Rumour Network (no reason to, really) to tell us about an incident where hard facts are required - and they will come out in due course.
It is as you say Heat38cda, extremely fishy and I suspect Crys needs to either be ignored (when the posting will stop), or we basically just roll our eyes at another faltering member on internet boards and discuss logically between the rest of us.
The childish posting doesn't do Crys any favours either, and just makes us even more suspicious. Right ?
Why would a passenger on the flight sign up to the Professional Pilots Rumour Network (no reason to, really) to tell us about an incident where hard facts are required - and they will come out in due course.
It is as you say Heat38cda, extremely fishy and I suspect Crys needs to either be ignored (when the posting will stop), or we basically just roll our eyes at another faltering member on internet boards and discuss logically between the rest of us.
The childish posting doesn't do Crys any favours either, and just makes us even more suspicious. Right ?
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Inuksuk, I was a passenger aboard that flight as well. My name is Richard Savage. I'm not a journalist.
We (the passengers) have been paying a great deal of attention to your site. Many of us are starved for answers, and when you're not sniping at each other you're pretty interesting.
We've set up a web site for ourselves to to exchange information: http://www.afterfivestudios.com/flight560/
I think we'd welcome input on or site from a professional pilot.
Thank you.
Richard
We (the passengers) have been paying a great deal of attention to your site. Many of us are starved for answers, and when you're not sniping at each other you're pretty interesting.
We've set up a web site for ourselves to to exchange information: http://www.afterfivestudios.com/flight560/
I think we'd welcome input on or site from a professional pilot.
Thank you.
Richard
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Good luck with your site Richard.
As I am sure you are aware there will be a full enquiry into the incident carried out by the relevant authorities when the answers you require will be made apparent - and at that point Rochon - the lawyer seeking fame and fortune engaged by Maggisano, will have facts at his disposal.
I am of course, assuming at this point the $$$ signs in all of the passengers eyes are flashing furiously in gleeful anticipation.
Brucelee/Safety Guy - you're both quiet on this - what do you say to Mr Savage and his cronies ?
As I am sure you are aware there will be a full enquiry into the incident carried out by the relevant authorities when the answers you require will be made apparent - and at that point Rochon - the lawyer seeking fame and fortune engaged by Maggisano, will have facts at his disposal.
I am of course, assuming at this point the $$$ signs in all of the passengers eyes are flashing furiously in gleeful anticipation.
Brucelee/Safety Guy - you're both quiet on this - what do you say to Mr Savage and his cronies ?
Last edited by Inuksuk; 3rd Jun 2005 at 17:49.
hard landing -and worse to come
I'm not sure what to make of the actual landing etc etc. The report will cover the facts and hopefully the required changes\training will make this an even rarer occurance. Everyone walked away which is great.
The real problem here for Skyservice and the lesson to all is the PR disaster that is developing.
People were scared - I would have being too. Get off a plane that has bounced and you see crumpled metal - that is scary. If I'd been on that plane I'd have spent a few days wondering how close I'd being to checkout. It is not normal to bend metal on landing - this was a major mistake. Trying to brush it off is really bogus and makes the people doing it look either very dumb or very dishonest.
This is a different day and age - people won't be treated as mushrooms - kept in the dark and feed crap. Wait 6 months or a year for x hundred page report that will satisfy the technical need is not what the people most effected need. A void has being created and all sorts of hysterical crap and rumors will fill this.
People believe what they hear first - you don't give an honest sincere explanation and build some trust people will get their info elsewhere. You will never regain the pole position on the (dis) information superhighway.
The fault for this lies with Skyservice - they needed to be 100% proactive here. The VP operations should have being on the next plane down and personally, with a team addressed every passenger. Set up shop in the hotel (bar) for a day or two. Show people - yes we do care. We don't like things like this happening (expensive and bad for the balance sheet) - we want you to have a good vacation and we will provide you with means accessing all the information we have. An oh - another drink?
Sounds expensive - peanuts compared to the cost of the bad publicity. How much a year does Skyservice pay to advertise their company? Well it is all down the crapper. They will pay out some minor money - a small fraction of the legal fees but it is the damage to the company name that will cost.
By extension the industry hurts. The next time pilots or the industry want to take any issue public this incident how this is handled will impact the reception. Some day pilots will want the public to empathize with them - how about a bit going the other way here.
A few years back a flight here hit some turbulence and had was very badly tossed around. Plane diverted to check for damage. The pilot stayed in the lounge with the passengers and even dead headed on to destination just to reassure the passengers. That action by the pilot made all pilots and the airline look great. It undoubtedly saved many a lawsuit.
Reading a lot of these posts I would not want most of these posters having anything to do with my customers. Screw-ups happen – it’s how you deal with them that makes the difference.
The real problem here for Skyservice and the lesson to all is the PR disaster that is developing.
People were scared - I would have being too. Get off a plane that has bounced and you see crumpled metal - that is scary. If I'd been on that plane I'd have spent a few days wondering how close I'd being to checkout. It is not normal to bend metal on landing - this was a major mistake. Trying to brush it off is really bogus and makes the people doing it look either very dumb or very dishonest.
This is a different day and age - people won't be treated as mushrooms - kept in the dark and feed crap. Wait 6 months or a year for x hundred page report that will satisfy the technical need is not what the people most effected need. A void has being created and all sorts of hysterical crap and rumors will fill this.
People believe what they hear first - you don't give an honest sincere explanation and build some trust people will get their info elsewhere. You will never regain the pole position on the (dis) information superhighway.
The fault for this lies with Skyservice - they needed to be 100% proactive here. The VP operations should have being on the next plane down and personally, with a team addressed every passenger. Set up shop in the hotel (bar) for a day or two. Show people - yes we do care. We don't like things like this happening (expensive and bad for the balance sheet) - we want you to have a good vacation and we will provide you with means accessing all the information we have. An oh - another drink?
Sounds expensive - peanuts compared to the cost of the bad publicity. How much a year does Skyservice pay to advertise their company? Well it is all down the crapper. They will pay out some minor money - a small fraction of the legal fees but it is the damage to the company name that will cost.
By extension the industry hurts. The next time pilots or the industry want to take any issue public this incident how this is handled will impact the reception. Some day pilots will want the public to empathize with them - how about a bit going the other way here.
A few years back a flight here hit some turbulence and had was very badly tossed around. Plane diverted to check for damage. The pilot stayed in the lounge with the passengers and even dead headed on to destination just to reassure the passengers. That action by the pilot made all pilots and the airline look great. It undoubtedly saved many a lawsuit.
Reading a lot of these posts I would not want most of these posters having anything to do with my customers. Screw-ups happen – it’s how you deal with them that makes the difference.
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You are right.
Small price to pay in the short term for sure.
Makes you wonder if the tour company may look at dropping them.
Not the time to drop the ball.
It all revolves around business.
Small price to pay in the short term for sure.
Makes you wonder if the tour company may look at dropping them.
Not the time to drop the ball.
It all revolves around business.
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I must admit myself to being puzzled as to why Rob hasn't done a damage limitation exercise on this, and had his team soothing the ruffled feathers of passengers on the service who appear t0 feel they were treated in an off-handed manner, which is the crux of the matter or so it seems. This could have been so easily sorted with a definitive PR effort and discussing the issue on a one-on-one basis with those affected.
The last thing any airline needs is rumour and counter rumour propogated by those who don't know the facts, an internet site running on the incident which has no real factual content to it (I looked), as it is simply a collection of experiences of those on-board.
20driver - I am in full agreement with you. The inquiry that is under way will produce the facts which we are all interested in I am sure.
I personally feel that passengers on the service should await the findings, rather than populate this forum with their observations.
Comments ?
The last thing any airline needs is rumour and counter rumour propogated by those who don't know the facts, an internet site running on the incident which has no real factual content to it (I looked), as it is simply a collection of experiences of those on-board.
20driver - I am in full agreement with you. The inquiry that is under way will produce the facts which we are all interested in I am sure.
I personally feel that passengers on the service should await the findings, rather than populate this forum with their observations.
Comments ?
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I personally feel that passengers on the service should await the findings, rather than populate this forum with their observations.
To this point in time, the only "facts" that have been seen here or on other forums are the photographic evidence and the witness statements of those that were actually on board the aircraft at the time.
You may not like what these folks have to say and, obviously, they may not reflect the technical observations that may be preferred and that will come out in a final investigative report. However, I believe that their experiences and observations should not be summarily dismissed.