If in fact he recently nursed his father till his death, and is at this time tending to his very sick mother then why is he not being paid to stay home and do just that? Oh, silly me, its our brave new world, where its only the bottom line that counts, not the wellfare of long time employees, in an industry in which profit is the only consideration. {See many threads on this forum from P2F to EK to get this} Further to this, why was the pax not prosecuted for standing when the belt sign was on? Where is the Captain in this?Where is the company?why are they not nailing the pax for endangering the other SLF on the aircraft? Im so glad Im retired if this is the new working enviroment.

Skid Buggy has made the most valid point whilst we are slapping this crew member on the back for his actions thank god there was nobody in the immidiate vacinity of that chute when it was deployed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lotpax

I trust that due process will be followed and that (barring any emergent defences) this gentleman will be terminated. This behavior is unacceptable.

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From the story, he apparently already quit, so termination would be redundant. (I enjoyed that pun … )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scarbagjack

As much as it appeals to the free spirit in most of us … it really was a stupid and un-professional stunt to pull. The poor guy needs some help, not applauded as if he was Ben Stiller in some movie.

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Bingo. Life imitates art.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saskatoon9999

The guy appears to be an attention seeking toss-pot, nothing more. I would say that this guy perhaps had a slight pysological issue and was more highly strung than most. I' betting he is one of the pre-madonna types we see in the industry and HAS to always be the centre of attention!

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Pre-Madonna or prima donna? Madonna is also a bit of a drama queen … as such, I liked your pun! :)
And that's the tragic part of America today: Oprah will most likely try to turn this numbskull into a folk hero. I understand there is already an online defense fund for this fella, though he did posts his $2500 for bail already ...
I wonder if the judge will simply stare this man in the face and state the following:
"Mister, it's not all about you."

As a pilot with an international airline I am surprised that more incidents like this do not occur.

The stress level that you guys in the cabin have to deal with, sometimes when exhausted after 16 hours of duty, and the rudeness of some passengers defies belief. Add to that the personal stress that you bring to work but try to repress, and I can only add to the previous comments of 'respect'.

I smiled when I heard it on the news. There but for the grace of God go I. I think many of us have got near the point when we would like to go out in a blaze of glory, tell someone to stuff it and walk off the job.

Perhaps his HR and medical departments might listen more closely to the next person to come in and say "I need some days off for some stuff at home." This is not an office we work in, it requires sharp people to do sharp things when it all goes wrong.

I wish him every success in his new ventures.

clunckdriver I totally agree.

Once, landing at Munich in an RJ100 as we came off the runway the guy sitting next to me popped open his seatbelt with a leisurely sigh. After asking him if he knew that, if we stopped suddenly, he would probably knock out the guy in front and break his own neck, his only answer was "Ja, but how often does that happen?!"

It's one of the few things that makes me angry when I think about it, years later. There's no excuse for putting others at risk. I just wish I'd known a better way to get him to see that.

Hope the rude, selfish pax concerned gets the book thrown at her, rather than get away with it. It just takes one pax to stand up, and if the crew don't deal with it straight away, several more will follow suit. Any word from this flight's captain?

Frustration often comes also from knowing that, no matter what the passenger does and no matter the abuse they throw at you, the company will try to keep them happy and seldom does anything substantial about it.

The passengers don't pay our wages, I'm getting sick of hearing that. The COMPANY pays our wages, and it's the responsibility of the directors of that company to have a clear strategy to make those passengers want to fly with us, as well as our responsibility to keep them happy. My company is obliged to pay my wages every month, regardless of how many passengers "who pay our wages" have we managed to take.

If we go down that road, everyone in society pays everyone's wages.

The problem is that the companies are increasingly trying to attract passengers by reassuring them that they can do what they please, that they have no responsibilities, and that we are supposed to be their servants. And no, we are not servants. If you have missed the flight because you were expecting someone to personally go and tell you to move while you are sipping your whisky in the lounge, without even bothering looking at the flight information screens, don´t expect from me to keep smiling while you engage in a tirade of utter abuse. Respect goes both ways, and we are not talking about grumpy FAs not smiling when they serve the food, we are talking about passengers who insult, threaten and even assault employees because they try to make them follow safety rules or immigration and security procedures, or for not getting an upgrade, for that matter. THAT is a real problem in airports and aircraft around the world, and if this gentleman has managed to bring that to the attention of the media, and that makes our employers to take more responsibility for their employees dignity and wellbeing, then I applaud him, becuase I wouldn't have had what it takes to do that.

The kind of abuse we suffer every day from passengers doesn´t happen enywhere else, supermarkets, train stations, etc. It´s only at the airport, and that is a direct consequence of the companies' policy of pretending to provide a privileged service to their loyal customers.

Civil suit against the pax is in order I reckon ;)

I disagree with your analysis and believe that this type of abuse does happen in the places you describe.

Furthermore, I believe that it is a two way street.

Standards in society have fallen and it manifests itself everywhere.

I have seen very rude passengers, ground staff and crew in the past 5-10 years, behaving in a way that rarely happened 20 years ago.

With that much experience under his belt, I'm sure he didn't fail to look out, making sure the slide area was clear.

Onboard I was just about to post the same view :ok:

As experienced CC myself I don't condone the use of emergency equiptment for anything else than the purpose it as designed for. That said I think Mr Slater, having deployed the slide, should have perhaps used it to perhaps evacuate the offending pax as well...she did after all want to deplane quickly :E

Vid1977 makes some really valid points re a company's approach to dealing with unruly and abusive pax. I have no idea how Jetblue operate but can certainly comment on what is going on at my own.

At present we have a flight to a certain balearic island on which the cabin crew are abused verbally and physically on a regular basis just for asking passengers to observe very basic safety regs and behave in a civilised manner. There have also been cases of female crew being groped inappropriatly and sexual innuendo's and assumptions are made towards our young male crews.

The only support we get in dealing with this is from our flight crew on the day who will call the police and file ASR's on a monotonously regular basis. This is always after we have had to put up with this behaviour during flight. They cannot help us then as they are behind a locked door. We just have to deal with these "valued customers" until then.

The pace of response to dealing with this issue from our Cabin Crew Manager is glacial at best. In fact in the interests of company profit we operate on minimum crew on a flight in which the enviroment has been deemed unsafe at times. He does not seem to want to adress any of these issues so now our union have taken this up

Maybe Mr Slater had just had to deal with one too many abusive pax without the support of his managers and snapped. Whilst his reaction was OTT this is understandable IMHO.

I think the posting on here from a serving Captain should be made standard procedure.

1. Leave the PA on so you hear the "Please remain seated and keep your seat belts fastened until the aicraft comes to a complete standstill"

2. Count to 5 slowly

3. BUMP THE BRAKES TWICE !!

:D:ok::D:ok:

I'm rather surprised, and a tad concerned, that many Cabin Crew and Flight Deck personnel are so admiring of this individual. As a passenger this individual would have had me fearful for my safety.

The Devil is in the details.

JetBlue flight attendant Steven Slater's fuse was lit before plane left the gate


A few quotes of interest:


While I have sympathy for Cabin Crew when it comes to rude passengers this individual is hardly an appropriate icon.

As for the presumption that he blew the slide only after making sure it was safe to do so..his behavior hardly indicates an individual acting with concern for the safety of others.

Passenger: Flight Attendant Started Fray - WSJ.com

According to this link, "the rest of the story is" that this FA copped an attitude, as witnessed by at least one passenger other than the one from Pittsburgh who seemed to be up and about when she should not have been.

In light of additional information (of what quality, I know not) I considered commenting upon the knee jerk response in re passengers, rude and otherwise, by some of the posts in this thread.

But I won't bother. It is quite possible that this gent had been considering leaving his job for some time, and this particular day it all came to a head ... if the linked news report is close to accurate, the decision to quit occurred at some point in the air, with consideration of going out with a bang given adequte time to ferment within his mind.

So long, Mr Slater, best of luck in your future endeavors.

Being an American living in London, I fly back home to the states several times per year to visit my family.
I've used all different air carriers and all different routes- I go for cheapest, but mostly Delta.
Anyway, I've seen and heard many, many derogatory remarks made to the cabin crew from passengers. I dont know how or even why they have to take that crap.
If it was waitress, they'd probably end up spitting, (or worse) in the food.
So, I understand that guys frustration. It probably built up over many trips and he just couldn't take it anymore. Just like a 'real bad day at the office' LOL.
I think he deserves an apology from the sob passenger and I was also thinking his union should be sticking up for him.
There is no way passengers should treat air crew in this manner....NOT acceptable- IMO.

The guy's a psycho and deserves to get locked up. I've seen far more "Passenger - F/A" altercations, started by the F/A.

Comments like this:

The passengers don't pay our wages, I'm getting sick of hearing that. The COMPANY pays our wages, and it's the responsibility of the directors of that company to have a clear strategy to make those passengers want to fly with us, as well as our responsibility to keep them happy. My company is obliged to pay my wages every month, regardless of how many passengers "who pay our wages" have we managed to take.

Passengers, are Customers of your Airline, not the inconvenience that plenty of F/A's think they are.

Excellent. The posts by Diplome and Lonewolf 50, just above, are beginning to make it plain that all the "facts" that everybody has been hyperventilating about are simply untrue. Those of us who got today's Wall Street Journal on our doorsteps at dawn already knew it.

Apologies in order from the "Ready, fire, aim" ranters? Of course. But will they? Of course not.

There is NO excuse for pulling the slide handle at a gate and endangering ground crew.

My hope is that this jerk will get the maxium punishment and hopelfully we will not see this again.

I don't undestand why the media would treat this guy as some kind of hero. We don't need heros like this guy.

Why are some nitwits still mindlessly blethering on about "endangering groundcrew"?

Have none of you unimaginative fools stopped to consider that this Professional crewmember might actuallyhave checked the viewfinder before firing the slide? Unless, of course, you have evidence to the contrary. Which of course you do, don't you???

No! Thought not.


IMHO this fella has done this industry a big, and I mean BIG favour in illustrating the imbecilic and undisciplined behaviour of some of our pax, and had the guts/suicidal impetus to make sure the rest of the world saw the reality of "life" as that most despised member of society, the airline cabin crew.

Whether his oh-so public breaking point is professionally defendible or not, I salute him as a man of guts, principle and sheer chutzpah!

Well done, fella! Even if you were wrong in the event, the message was right on target!

Bravo Zulu

I am curious as to why some of the folks here think it appropriate to attempt to put a pax in prison for being rude to an FA/CC.

What's your rationale?

Likewise, if this is a first offense, I don't see why putting this guy in jail makes any sense if FAA based charges are filed. Fine and probation ought to be sufficient.

Sure seems to be a lot of pitchforks and torches handy these days ...

Johnny767:

I know the revenue comes from the passengers paying to fly with us, obviously. But what I am fed up with is that it has become an explanation for the most irrational of behaviours in our everyday life. A passenger wants to stand up before arriving to the stand, "I pay your wages!", a policeman gives us a parking ticket, "I pay your wages", there is a queue at the hospital, "I pay your wages", the clerk at the bank is too slow, "I pay your wages", the waitress says they've run out of whisky, "I pay your wages!"... C´mon! Everybody pays everyone´s wages, that is market society, for pete´s sake! At the end of the day, if a Vodafone or Sky employee is not happy with their seat and tells me that he "pays my wages", I can always reply that I pay theirs as well!

"I am curious as to why some of the folks here think it appropriate to attempt to put a pax in prison for being rude to an FA/CC."

I don't think anyone's suggesting that this pax be reprimanded because she was rude. Hell, if we did that, we'd be jailing hundreds of pax a day. She defied the lawful command of a crew member who was acting in the interests of safety. In the UK, it says in the Air Navigation Order (the "laws" of the air) that pax should not do so. Therefore she broke the law, ergo she should be held to account.

Not necessarily. With the European low-costs they are not: they are the product, not the buyer.

Just pointing it out (and btw, there is no need to capitalise every other word, unless you're German in which case it might be excused).

Wow...so much to comment on and so little time...

"Why turn this guy into a "hero"?" Why not...remember D.B. Cooper...???

As for the pax, if it was true that she was the one who caused the cut on Slaters head, then that's "interfering with a flight crew member" at the least, and maybe assult or more at the most...prosecution is in order...

And as to keeping the morons in back seated until the seatbelt sign is turned off...peer pressure works best...in the days when we could open the cockpit doors after landing...when they stood, I'd stop;, set the brakes, and make an announcement that until everyone was seated again, we weren't moving, and if the rest of the rule abiding folks want to make their connections, it would be in their best interests to "encourage" their fellow passengers to obey directions...Always worked...

I think this guy has had more than his 15 minutes of "FAME" :rolleyes:

..and now ABC news is reporting that the police have information that Mr. Slater was drinking prior to the flight.

Steven Slater Backlash? - KDAF

and not ONE passenger or fellow flight attendant has come forth to verify his version of the story..quite the opposite.

What is bizarre about this story at the moment is that this nitwit wants his wings back.

Some passengers dispute jetBlue flight attendant Steven Slater's claim that he was provoked

Of course, just what every passenger wants, a Cabin Crew member that, in the case of an emergency, shoves past saying "I have to take care of myself first Honey".

All Pitchforks and Torches, you could of killed a groundcrew member aside and just looking at the fundamentals here.....

It is hilarious!!!!!

I think it's great that someone would think f*ck it i'm bailing out and just like that he is gone!! Excellent....

I used to work in an office and if someone annoyed me on the phone etc I would regularly step outside for a breath of air...

Good on this guy for showing the world that we too are human, If I was his CCM I would give him his wings back, his length of service and the fact he has only done this once and showing great restrain in not flooring said passenger should be commended... I am sure he won't do it again, and perhaps passengers on his flight will start showing a little respect, nothing like a little fear to keep the punters in line... :D

But remember fun police, this story is plain and clear... FUNNY :ok:

The truth is slowly starting to come out. In a plane full of people, not one will corroborate his side of the story. Yes folks, let's all celebrate the drunken idiot flight attendant. :D

How sad and pathetic is you life to have this moron as your hero.

Mr Dough, what remarkable powers of deduction. Being able to conclude anything at all about people´s lives from a few posts on the internet. Impressive.

Yet another witness account; Heather Robinson makes a few interesting points, worth the read.

Same journalist also interviewed another FA for her take on the Slater incident. Yet again an interesting read, with a point of view I suspect many of us here sympathise with.

excerpt:
What he did was clearly wrong, for many different reasons, but how come a person under such personal strain was active crew? And if he himself did not understand that he needed to be off from work, or if he was afraid to call in sick, how come his boss or the airline´s HR department didn´t catch him?
While clearly wrong, the fantasy of doing something like that has an obvious appeal to many of us regularly dealing with people who abuse us for trying to keep them safe.
Abusing us for doing what we have been trained to do, and are by law obliged to do.

If it was a deliberate act of assault that resulted in a cut head, sure, file charges as appropriate, but that isn't apparent from what has been reported to date.

... where I saw the witch hunting ....
Cauldron's comment: clunkdriver: OFDM: Another post: Though the pax was reportedly a her? :confused:

However, I seem to have mixed up in my head the fact that Mister Slater was in jail before he posted bail, and the calls to arrest the pax whose baggage hit him in the head when pax was up and about when pax should have been in seat until plane landed and Slater was trying to enforce that well known rule of air travel ...

There was another thread on this in either Jet Blast or Rumors but no matter.

I fail to see reason for arrest of the pax.

On what grounds?

Someone posted this, and I'd like to see elaboration on felonious standing up get get her kit when she should not have.
I'd recommend that poster read the recent Economist article on the problem of how America is overfilling its jails by setting up rules with inane incarceration requirements for simple infractions.

If the FAA or the State of New York have a statute this pax violated, and testimony to support it, then I suggest the defense will have a field day with whomever brings the case. Why? Apparently, and we have only the media to rely on at the moment, so big grains of salt, there is more than was initially reported here.

Civil suit? Might work out ... I think the case to be made would be made along the lines of a wrong/negligent behavior (getting out of the seat for the kit) ended up in minor injury to Mr Slater (which it apparently did) which required medical attention. Which it did. Damages set ... where?

Lonewolf, You have I doubt never been in command of a long silver tube full of 400 pax. Let me tell you a little story, way back when I was in the left seat of just such a tube, after landing on a very slick runway the pax were INSTRUCTED by both the in charge F/A and myself{AKA The Captain} to stay in their seats, belts fastened as the ramps and taxiways were still in very poor condition, lo and behold one bozo decides to stand, I had to slamm it into reverse and lock the brakes when a snow plow charged at us totally out of controll, the end result? I had to spend my two days of during the next month in court as the pax sued us for whiplash and God knows what else, the judge was not impressed and gave him a large fine for deliberatley ignoreing a lawfull order. After a few years of this behavior it becomes routine to call the cops to meet the aircraft, how the F/As put up with these assholes amazes me. Please dont comment if you havnt been there.

...now this guy wants his job back but JetBlue says it is not possible....

Personnally, if they hired this person back, I would avoid traveling on this airline. Hopefully, they will jail him for a year or so and he will be mowing lawns after that.

Maybe, after prison he can team up with the balloon boy dad and create a reality show. I will not be watching, however.

Lonewolf, things might be worded slightly different where you are, but I am reasonably certain that the law is the same to all intent and purposes.
In fact, USA laws are usually stricter if anything.

Being more familiar with European law, I easily found Standard Note: SN/BT/2061 from the library of the UK House of Commons.

The FSB sign is a direct order from the commander.
The FAs are the representatives in the cabin of the commander; any safety related direction/order given to the pax by an FA is by law considered to come from the commander of the aircraft.

The passenger disobeyed the FSB sign.
She disobeyed Slater´s direction to remain seated.
That´s two clear offenses.
Legal ones.
Or as you would phrase it: "Felonious standing up to get her kit" ;)

When it comes to actual punishment, the situation becomes less clear.

Some countries legislate that disobeying a safety related direction from the crew equals endangering the safety of the aircraft and of persons or property carried in the aircraft, and will fine or incarcerate an offender.
Others don´t.

Perhaps you know what the law says in your country?

PS: Clunkdriver posted while I was typing; from his post it seems that a Canadian judge didn´t see it your way.

This is my first post on PPRUNE - so be gentle with me please!
My wife is a psychologist and Human Resources professional and I have a consuming interest in the Airline industry and have been following this thread with interest.

It strikes my wife and I that neither condemnation for this FAs action - or praise is appropriate. Perhaps a little bit of understanding is in order. Given the man's home circumstances a passanger ignoring his request to stay seated (however delivered) was probably the straw that broke the camel's back.

When hired the man was probably an A1 candidate for the job - but circumstances change and without Human Resources assessing staff and taking an interest in the mental well-being of their employees events such as this will continue happening.

We have all come across grumpy and unhelpful cabin staff - as well as the sort that make it a joy to fly with them and we have all been on a flight with people that enhance the experience or make it the journey from hell. One has, ultimatly to ask WHY this happened - not jump on one side or other of the bandwagon.

The guy, I think needs rest, recouperation and a different job.
All the best

stuart

Juud:

Thanks. I'm in the impressive business.

Looks like we're having a breakthrough moment. Hugs.

I dunno - let me pose a couple of "what ifs". What if the silly SLF is a pregnant woman who miscarries as a result? What if the silly SLF falls and seriously injures themselves or worse still another passenger who is seated and buckled up?

Monstrous implications for the pilot and the airline if it transpired that such an incident occured as a result of a "brake check" as opposed to a genuine emergency. The stupidity of the SLF in unbuckling and standing up would not be a mitigating factor.

Chances of the above are slim, but it is would be a brave person who gambles that it could never happen.

I seen a few "stand ups" in many years of flying and in all cases a loud, firm and assertive "PLEASE REMAIN SEATED SIR!" always resulted in the miscreant shamefacedly complying.

Don't you people yet know the true story? Try reading real newspapers rather than believing Internet buehlchit. There was no "belligerent passenger. There was no "luggage in the overhead compartment." And it's quite possible, as the real journalists interview more passenger on the flight, that the FA boarded in PIT with his forehead already cut.

I thought the job of the crew was to promote safety. Instead we have this crew member who is endangering the saftey of all including those on the plane and those below the aircraft.

...hope the judge will toss the book at this guy!

As for the passenger who casued the fuss, I hope they put him on the "no-fly" list.

Read my lips (and my previous posts): there WAS NO outrageous passenger. It's a Balloon Boy hoax all over again.