Agressive passengers- Passive Companies?
 

Anyone care to share their experiences with company follow-up after having been involved in an incident with violent passengers?

I was recently attacked and beaten up by just such a lovely, after which our glorious captain declined to press charges, and the company figured a bunch of flowers would set me right otherwise. (it didn't)

I'd like to know if there are companies out there who DO have a good system for dealing with incidents like this. Of course, any horror stories about mad pax/lax companies are welcome too!
Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Jetlegs (edited 08 February 2000).]

This is outrageous. This passenger assaulted you. You can take action independantly of the Captain and Company. The sod wants locking up.

I agree that it is a real shabby showing on both their parts if they just swept it under the carpet.

Hope you are alright and getting better.

if u r uk based u could take out private prosecution against individual, claim compo from criminal injuries compensation board or even go thru' grievance procedure and use your injuries as subject for grievance - better with union involved though

bonne chance

My only experience is when a pax attacked me 1/2hr into a 4hr flt . Captain returned to base and the guy was psosecuted . Also good follow up from the company . Press charges.....you have every right too .
Hope you are feeling better .
Good luck and keep us posted!

Thanks for the support; means a lot more than those ****** flowers!

I did press charges, but only for "grievous bodily harm" which does not carry a lot of weight. Prosecution of this charming individual is apparently under consideration, but it doesn't look very promising. (not for me, anyway http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif)

The captain could have filed for "endangering the safety of the aircraft by attacking an active crewmember" which would have been prosecuted for sure.
No such thing as claiming for damages in my country either!

Fly-Guy, what kind of follow-up did your company do?

The GBH charge carries a far heftier sentence but needs a lot to get it home in court. If endangering was not considered an option then perhaps someone should also consider article 59a of the air navigation order that has been introduced to protect crews.

Re the compensation board, the police dealing should give you details. If not then email me

AP

This probably aint the mature grown up response here but....

If I was capt of such a flight id take great pleasure in setting down at the nearest bit of black hard stuff, and personally throwing the aforementioned scumbag from an open door at V1.

That'll teach the buggers!

Brian

PS Get well asap

Putting down was exactly what the FO and SO proposed; they'd even located a tiny bit of Amerivan soil where we could be sure the offender would get a hearty reception.
But the captain overruled them :mad: so we flew another 7 hours with our friend in hand- and footcuffs, screaming his head off, trying to bite everybody in the vicinity, and threatening all the FA's with slow dismemberment.

Anyway, what is article 59a of the air navigation order and where could i find out more about it?

Thanks!

Just what has someone got to do to get this Captains attention? Has a satisfactory explanation been obtained as to why the Capatain walked away, from what I see, as his responsibility.

The more people who get set up as examples over this issue the less likely there will be recurrences. The more Capatians that take a hard line the quicker the desired result. IMHO.

Perhaps this thread hould be posted on a more wider forum? It affects everyone that flies.

Perhaps this thread should be posted on a more wider forum? It affects everyone that flies.

I RECENTLY HAD A DRUNK PAX WHO HAD ALSO TAKEN MEDICATION TO HELP HIM ALONG THE WAY.
HE TRIED TO ATTACK ME AND AFTER A STUGGLE HE WAS OFFLOADED AT AN OUTSTATION. TO MY SURPRISE MY COMPANY TELL ME HE MAY TRAVEL WITH US IN THE FUTURE. ARE THEY ASKING FOR TROUBLE? I AGREE AIRLINES SHOULD TAKE THE BULL BY THE HORNS AND DO SOMETHING MORE BEFORE A CABIN CREW MEMBER IS BADLY INJURED OR WORSE.

Article 59a of the UK Air navigation Order says

No person shall, while in an aircraft:
Use any threatening, abusive or insulting words towards a member of the crew of an aircraft; behave in a threatening, abusive or insulting or disorderly manner towards a member of the crew of an aircraft;or
Intentionaly interfere with the performance, by a member of the crew of the aircraft of his duties.


This offence covers the behaviour up to the assault and of the specific air offences may well be the most appropriate coupled with a charge under the offences against the person act (it is difficult to be specific without full circumstances). This offence is very general and will cover most cases of disruptive pax.

AP

I've had 2 incidents when I sat in the LHS, both times it was alcohol related. One pax was even banging on the cockpit door. FAA FAR's are very specific about endangerment, I think it reads "...endangering crew and aircraft..." . Seems you were endangered. Your fight officers should have either gone back to the gate, or landed at the next available airport. In both cases I choose to return to gate. Your job is hard enough, if your FO's won't support you then I suggest you spend the money ,get a good (and hungry) lawyer and go for whatever you can get from the pax, helps to have pax and fellow cabin crew sign up as witnesses. Good luck. PS- It pisses me off when I read about something like this.

That "Captain" should not be in the position he is in if he is going to make decisions like that. All it does is create a precedent for other passengers to behave in an unruly manner. No captain in our company would let a pax get away with that, pax would be sitting in a cell right now!!

AP, thanks for the clarification, will print it and show it to the company when I get back to base.

Nice to read that there are a lot of pilots out there who actually do take this kind of thing seriously. It`s only by working together, FA`s and Pilots, that we can bring these incidents to some sort of satisfactory conclusion. AND send a message to the flying public about what constitutes unacceptable behaviour.
May be Boeing could surprise us with an ejector chute in their new models? That would surely end the whole problem................

As for blacklisting passengers; some companies do and some don`t, but as far as I know, nobody wants to admit to it for commercial reasons. I would think that it would make legit passengers actually feel safer. It`s a subject worthy of more attention, may be we FA`s could do more to make something like a "universal" blacklist. I mean, we are so many, we must have SOME clout!

Bye!
JL

HUE
Except if it was a "local" in which case you may well find yourself in a cell! :)

I'm able to contrast the response to this type of situation from Captains here in the UAE aswell as an Australian airline. Having observed them first hand. All I can say is that I consider what you have posted as a wonderful ideal! The gap between what should be done,what is seen to be done and what is actually done,is no wider than it gets in UAE aviation. I would back an Aussie pilot with an Aussie airline to be the greatest help when dealing with a violent pax. Why? Because the Australian regs give them the legal backing necessary to provide for the safety and comfort of all pax and crew. The UAE regs are,to the best of my knowledge,silent on this issue. Also EK management are spineless on this;the pax is always right with this company. "We must remember we are visitors in their country....." Does that sound like the Manager IFS to you? EK will not back their pilots;pilots with no legal recourse cannot and will not,back their own judgement on this matter. So cabin crew are on their own.

Sorry to go on so much,but as this is a matter that effects my day-to-day living so I feel passionately about it.

HUE. Insha'allah you will never have to look in the mirror and see the face of someone who betrayed such a high ideal. If you were my Captain I'd back you up,because I rather suspect that you would support your crew. I think it's about trust between flight crew.

Now a happy story to illustrate how it should always be. Whilst boarding I noticed a "suspect" pax. At that moment I was called to the flight deck. The F/O had also noticed the pax. The Captain asked if I thought the pax was OK to travel. I said the pax smelled of alcohol,staggered when he walked and couldn't find his own seat. I added that I would prefer not depart with this pax. I will never forget what the Captain said: "(my name) if you don't want this pax in your cabin then I don't want this person on my areoplane,I'll have the ground staff come and collect him." Now that's what I consider to be professional trust.

Jetlegs,
I'm really sorry that it seems nobody cared,least of all your Captain. Flowers can't replace lost trust. Many flight deck members don't quite understand how much we(in the cabin) rely on their support and judgement.
Kindest Regards,
toga.

I am in the same boat as Toga when it comes to this end of the world.
I was taking over a flight that was in transit. Typical story of the drunk abusive pax that was not off loaded simply because the captain accused me of over-reacting....tell me that at 410 ft when the guy starts having a tantrum and endangers everyone on board. I agree with a global system of black-listing trouble makers and a universal set of laws that determine what is acceptable and what isn't. I wish you well in your "case" and will be happy to support you in a petition that would endevour to address this issue!
Get well soon!

Jetlegs,

Very sorry to hear about your situation and hope you get better soon.

Thankfully, I have experienced only a few minor alcohol incedents which have been treated swiftly by our flight deck crew, but I can imagine very well how you are feeling.

The sooner all flight deck crews realise the true dangers of disruptive pax the better. Perhaps I am lucky since our Captains have no patience with disruptive pax, but I know how much depends on the Captains final word, which seemed to be seriously lacking in your situation.

Best wishes for a quick recovery.

Any chance of posting this whole story anyplace else so our beloved pilots will read it as well? Just so they know they're even more important to our wellbeing then they allready knew they were???