wed webbing loop,
your right its a seniority bidding system. bad luck for the 80% who arent senior.

This system was never endorsed or voted on by Long Haul it was forced on us by a technicality!

I guess if the senior people are so bloody greedy and small minded and dont give a rats about the rest then maybe we should challenge whether seniority is a fair and equal way to distribute the work.

Had you senior and selfish lot given a thought for the rest maybe a compromise on a seniority system might be worth considering - obviously NOT!. Time to remove seniority as a means for allocating work!
It is a democracy - Lets put it to a vote and see what the majority thinks!

I for one have no problem with a bid system HOWEVER I do think that it is unfair that the top 20 % get ALL and everything that they bid for.

A simple cap on the number of trips per person would surely be more equitable?

The trouble with opening the system up is that QF will use it as an opportunity to screw the lot of us.

If we had management that negotiated in good faith things might be different but then again I'm dreaming..............

"Good faith" was frog marched out of QCC1 by security along with Stanbridge years ago.:(

speedbird, well said.
Unfortunately the majority of us are currently getting screwed by the seniority bid system, with no choice of destinations, buddy flying or the ability to choose a date to do a trip or attempting to bid for specific days off. We (the majority) have to wait 25 years or more for that privilege.

For those affected we have nothing to lose as we are currently getting NOTHING. but as wed webbing says if you dont like it leave. Not likely wed, try this, if we dont like it a challenge to seniority in court might occur and we'll all be equal, and then if you dont like the system then wed as you said " you can leave".
Maybe its long overdue that the FAAA and the company get their heads together to see what flight attendants think about the system then maybe make some changes that will be equal for ALL.
Who knows the Company may create a system that has no D days and improves productivity and ALL of us may get something instead of NOTHING. Its long overdue. This system came into being in 1988, and the changes that have taken place since 1988 with flying as we know it today has created a system that penalises 80% of the workers for the benefit of 20% (maybe less). Its an embarrassment that any workforce has such a discriminatory system in this day and age. As stated earlier it was forced upon us. Back in 1988 the majority of Long Haul crew DID NOT vote for it.

So let me get this straight. I should bid for only one SFO and leave the other three for "someone else " further down the food chain.
What mental disabilty are you knuckleheads suffering ?
I'm like the dog who can lick his balls , I do it because I can.
It is not an unintended consequence of being a dog , it comes with the territory.
Bleat all you like , it's the same old song and we've heard it all before.

Dishing up stuff like Hawkeye's suggestion of relying on the company to create something new that " may create a system that has no D days and improves productivity and ALL of us may get something instead of NOTHING"
only reinforces the great Pogo's wisdom.

Be careful what you wish for Hawky because you might just get it . Or are you a QF stooge ? If so save the crap for the Cabin Spew News.

Ok first off I don't fully know how the QF bid system works, however I have seen enough here to have a general idea. Just wondering then, as 'seniority' doesn't seem to be working, which other type of system would you prefer?

Someone suggested a cap which as mentioned would spread the flying around more; however the more junior crew still probably wouldn't get a look in at the more 'desirable' trips...

What about using a rotating seniority system like EK and others do? (Yes I know this would also have it's problems but surely it's better than the same people doing the same trips over and over and over)... maybe if they gave junior crew some of the 'better' trips once in a while, people wouldn't become some bored/disillusioned with the flying???

Just my 2x....

Bid System
 

................I'm with you FOXY FRANK !!!
The " management goons" on QCC will do their usual Monday morning trawl thru Pprune to see whats biting. The conversation may go like this:
GOON #1: "oh Great there are rumblings about the bidding system".
GOON #2: Hey ., lets keep it quiet, then next time Kylie suggest ideas for ways we can reduce costs-AGAIN ...........then we'll come up with the idea-LETS SCRAP THE BID SYSTEM AND GO TO A SYSTEM LIKE SAY-QANTAS UK!!.
KYLIE: "Great idea team. Think of the cost saving. No bid books, no running the ARMS bidding computer, no bid rooms, less operations staff, more flexibility.......its a winner AND another whopping big bonus for my KPI's come June 30 -the Black Widow will be pleased with me."
Be careful what you wish for.
Remember:
PATIENCE is the art of hoping.

Whats the system in Qantas UK then???

The general manager of Qantas cabin crew was recently in Auckland in discussions with NZ based crew about receiving better conditons. The NZ based crew asked for their senority to combined in with Australian based crew. His response was and I quote ‘don’t concern yourself with senority, there will be no senority in this company beyond 2007’

P.S Don’t shoot the messanger!

speed bird and Hawk eye, You have read my mind.
Its about time something is done about this unfair system where only 20% or less benefit from it.
frankfox you comment
"So let me get this straight. I should bid for only one SFO and leave the other three for "someone else " further down the food chain.
What mental disabilty are you knuckleheads suffering ?
I'm like the dog who can lick his balls , I do it because I can."

this is exactly what is wrong with the system and its people like you that need to be weeded out!, what an incredible attitude. and to answer your question; YES you should only get one and share it around.
Looks like your parents never thought you to share! its a common courtesy.

Like I said before I don't believe we should get rid of the seniority bidding system but some changes need to be made, and a capping is the go, 80% of crew would support this.

And yes it would be great if Kylie read this.

Frank fox and WEB see you soon on a BOMBAY and we will have fun in JNB, and oh my god you may even encounter passengers that don't speak English.

I need to be weeded out . Heee hee . That's a good one .
You would plant yourself very quickly in my place Cartx. but you aren't prepared to wait are you ?

You want it all NOW!

Bad don't let it worry you , he will be gone before the seniority system.

Anyway I was just thinking that a forum such as this as the biggest public saloon in the world .With the longest bar.

It is only a matter of time before the sorry ,the knuckleheaded ,the weird and a few assorted others come stumbling in thru it's doors.
The best that cyberspace has to offer.
Hiding behind the cover of anonymity they stride up to the bar , corner the barman and push their wacko ideas and personal agenda's to the audience at large .
Quite often they claim they are altruisticaly working for the greater good .

The idea is not to take them too seriously.


Look into some of their broad statements such as " flying as we know it today has created a system that penalises 80% of the workers for the benefit of 20% (maybe less)"
This is not spin but a downright lie.
The percentage's are correct but the other way around.

The simple truth is that the system works (albeitly imperfectly) for 80% of F/a's .
What's more I glady welcome a vote on it, it would be no contest.

The "unrepresented swill" drinking at the bar today are the disgruntled 20% who just walked in the door of the airline.
Now if people declared themselves as to who they actually represented they would at least have credibility.

Or if they sought to become represented by standing for FAAA election even greater cred.
But who needs cred today right ?
Spin is King.


Another hilarious claim is that QF ,in the current climate will help them create a better system !
Too many whiskies !

Anyway part of the fun of these forums is to look down the length of the bar ,read between the lines and identify the players and where they are from.

They really don't need to declare themselves.

It isn't hard to work out.:p.
is it Skysista ?:p:p

Frank,
The problem you are facing, is with the lack of destinations these days, the vast majority of crew are not happy that the destinations aren't shared around.
You might be able to "do it cos you can" but, as soon as someone challenges it (legally), the company and faaa will be forced to take it to vote, and the 20% who currently hog all the good trips, will shortly thereafter be duty free seller on a mumbai trip, just like the rest of the crew.:rolleyes:
I am a flight attendant, you are a flight attendant.
Why should you get;
more days off
better money
better work-life style ( destinations)
better choice of holidays
more general choice
than me? We are employed under the same contract, trained to the same level and do exactly the same job !!
Try fighting that argument in a court of law! It's called discrimination
:p
Oh and I dont think arguements like
"But your honor, we have to go to warm places like Honolulu all the time cos of our arthritis"
will work :}

CartE
My BKK based friend has some questions for u :


I am a flight attendant, you are a flight attendant.
Why should you get;
more days off
better money
better work-life style ( destinations)
better choice of holidays
more general choice
than me? trained to the same level and do exactly the same job !

Answer ????????

Answer is simple, your friend should get the same as every other crew member in the base/ country they are employed in (which they do).


We are talking about a senior vs a junior Australian based crew member, working under the same EBA ( ie work contract)
one gets disadvantaged for no other reason than seniority (a disadvantage that those who were employed long enough ago to be in the top 20% never had to put up with - so even "tradition" or "rights of passage" could not be argued).

frank
what you don't understand is that your greed will be the end of you, if the trips were shared around you may get to keep some of your seniority system, but you want it all don't you!
with this attitude all you are doing is alienating other crew.
Cart elevator your post about the arthritis made me laugh, but poor old frank cant see the funny side of this as he was going to use this in his next argument.
Frank by the sounds of it you are the type that used to get your crew meal on seniority with no intentions of eating it , you did it because you could.(farrk the poor junior that never got his/her choice)
well we know what happened to that kind of selfishness, it went out the window didn't it, people simply got fed up! that is why you cannot choose your meal on seniority! greed and selfishness ensured that.

Selective opposition to discrimination CarteE .
If you want cred argue the case for global equality for all flight attendants.

global equality ....... now that would be ideal........:)

Frank

Global equality would be nice, but I can only work on one mission at once :ok:

It is interesting though, you're askin me to argue for global equality, when it was you who brought the Thai base into the discussion.

Also interesting that you brought that into the discussion as a way to avoid answering my simple question.

So do tell, why is it you should have such a huge lifestyle/work choice/pay advantage over someone else doing the exact same job as yourself, just because you have been doing it longer? I can fully understand incremental pay rises on years of service, but all the rest?

I might be able to understand inequalities if people are on different work contracts etc but the only reason you get all this is because of how long you have been doin it, not because a junior Australian based crew is employed under different conditions etc. Just because you have been doing it longer.

My original post regarding this issue suggested a compromise ( capping destinations so they can be more evenly shared). Those with the senority to work however/whenever/wherever they want will not compromise. The problem for you is, as the seniors wont contemplate changes, someone will take it to court, will most probably be able to prove discrimination, and the bid system will completely disappear. So for not wanting to give a little to make things a somewhat fairer, people like you will lose the whole lot. :p

What's that supposed to mean? C'mon then. if you're such a know-it-all, tell me who I work for. :E

I can assure you it isn't QF. (thank god, actually! - no offense CE and CT;))I was just asking a simple question of QF F/A's, as to which system they would prefer, if not the seniority one, as an interested observer.

Keep me out of your little political agenda, thanks mate.

The short answer is that it is vastly preferrable to any alternative.
For more information see my previous posts .

Read em again carties.
I am not going to repeat myself ad nauseum like others here . We have been hearing it elsewhere from this vocal minority for the past 18 years .
It is tedious .

The simple fact is that the majority of people are getting on with it and making the SBS work for them .

SS you sure have a lot to say for someone who is an "interested observer' Perhaps pushing an agenda for someone close ?

Anyway unlike some I have no agenda, hidden or otherwise.

Just trying to correct the many factual errors and misrepresentations by the bleating blow ins.
Perhaps adding some balance to the debate if you like.

FF, Wed
your views represent the embarrassing side of what many of the public think of flight attendants today.
Be that as it may your spin about who is the effected 80% is hilarious. Cart ex and cart el have no fear, Frank and Wed are right now shaking in their boots. All this bravado by them is nice but they realise they are on very shaky ground here.
Those who are senior and have "some" smarts who are regulars on here are sitting back reading these posts in absolute terror. Hoping it will all go away as quickly as it started. They are asking themselves what idiot started this discussion on the seniority bid system.
They know they have a tenuous hold on it at best. They know what would happen in a commission or a court of law. They know this system only works for 20% if that. Whats worse they know sometimes cabin crew management read this and are not amused at silly Weds sarcastic stab at cabin crew mgmt. Baiting them with calling them goons. You really are an idiot Wed. Yes the senior crew who regularly post and are reading it are now breaking out in a sweat wondering what our cabin crew mgmt will think of this little discussion.
Those from the FAAA who read and regularly post are now reading this with great interest. They know the many effected, they too understand the realities of the legal system today. As they represent All LH cabin crew it would be crazy for them to criticise a survey. As eleced officials it is their resposibility to represent THE Majority. Perhaps some of our elected officials may even agree or hope that the company puts out a survey. Many of our officials are also junior and realise the frustration that the majority of those flight attendants who elected them suffer every time the bidding results come out.

We want it Now, yes we do. Why? Because for the past 12 years this seniority system has been in operation it has not worked due to the reduction of destinations, increase in crew, category changes i.e Senior to CSS, Air chef to First class f/a etc, foreign base crew and new LH Aust bases etc, the list of the many new factors which now affect the SBS goes on and on.
We wanted it 12 years ago when these changing factors had a serious impact on the system but weve been patient. Our patience has finally run out.
If Cabin Crew Mgmt are reading this could you please create and send out a survey on the seniority bid system as soon as possibe please. As stated earlier, I believe approx 80% are terribly effected, I believe morale would improve by about 80% and those who dont like the changes will slink off out of the Company - Now theres an incentive. Imagine getting rid of 10% of the selfish , lazy and negative senior crew! At least 10% are positive and hard working( i think).
Cart Ex and cart El im glad to see there are some who post on here who believe in equality and fairness. Good on you.Those senior and selfish who post on here are terribly quiet right now. In fact they are mortified.

On behalf of those (through no fault of their own) who are junior or effected lets NOT let this issue die. This system will be 20 years old in 2 years time.Its out dated, expensive to run, DISCRIMINATORY and a cost to crew morale when bids come out. Lets get rid of it this year.Lets have a happy workplace full of positive people who all get to talk about having some quality in their flying life. Whether its a new destination or being home with their family for Christmas or just to get to know them as they always get the min days off . Some of us haven't had Christmas at home in 10 years.
Frank and Wed all i say to you two buffoons and the silent senior and selfish who are having apoplexy reading this..........BRING IT ON !!!!!!!!