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How to handle...........?
Had the pleasure of flying a whole week with the same bunch of happy, hard-working FAs. Every flight a breeze despite long delays due the winter wx chaos and despite wake-up between 0300 and 0400 6 mornings in a row.
Day 5, early out of Lissbon. First thing they serve in the back is hot olive cheese rolls. Might not sound like much but they are scrumptious! :ok: With over half the pax asleep I know they will have more than enough rolls. So I walk to the back and ask one of the FAs to please give me 2 rolls for the pilots. (Jan is diet month at 40Towers so I bravely didn't ask for roll no3 :ouch: ) So this really pretty, generally friendly and dedicated FA more or less refuses to give me 2 rolls. What the !!!!, thinks I??? :confused: Not wanting a discussion in a cabin full of sleeping pax, I insist a bit but no joy. I then politely order her to hand me 2 rolls. And get them handed to me with a look of disgust. Not the way I like to deal with my crew at all. Had enough time to ponder this as my pax stayed in dreamland for the next few hours and as the FAs in the back were as good as gold, they didn't need my help either. Brooched the subject with the girl when the 2 of us were the first ones at brekkers next day. Turns out she thought pilots were uppity sods who behaved as if the sun shone out of their backsides and therefore feeding them anything extra on top of their 'Happy Meal' (their sarnies come in a cardboard box reminiscent of the McD thing) was unnecessary. She's only been with the comp for 7 months, and truthfully the assholes in the cockpit are very very few and far between on the 737. So how she can have come to that conclusion is a mystery. Tried my very best to have some sort of constructive talk with her and to make her see that her own attitude wasn't exactly helping matters. This girl is a wonderful FA in all other respects, she didn't mind being overruled by me on the issue, she just wasn't going to be nice to pilots! She was polite and pleasant about it all because that's what you are when your Purser pulls you up on something, but I'm pretty sure I totally failed to make her see that working together gets better with small kindnesses and courtesies extended both ways. Anyone here on the forum who could help me to get a handle on this for next time? :hmm: |
I then politely order her to hand me 2 rolls. And get them handed to me with a look of disgust. ORDER???? Is this boot camp? Where was your CRM? Shame on you! Remember those scrumptious olive and cheese rolls are for the pax, so ordering the crew to give one to you is a bit rich, don't you think? You could have handled that situation a bit better IMHO. Safe Flying SG :} |
pilots were uppity sods who behaved as if the sun shone out of their backsides and therefore feeding them anything extra on top of their 'Happy Meal' (their sarnies come in a cardboard box reminiscent of the McD thing) was unnecessary. Shall i change career while i can :ooh: I actually need top ups of food once in awhile, i burn alot of energy very quick... :O |
Flaps,
I thought you handled the situation very well. You didn't berate her infront of the rest of the crew, you also tried to offer her some constructive feedback. Did she tell you that she had had a problem with pilots before- had she encounted one of the few 'assholes' in the company and was scared for life. Or was she easily impressionable and therefore had taken to heart the bitching of another crew members feelings towards pilots. At seven months in a company I am suprised that she fought you so hard on this issue- however you had obviously developed such a raport with your crew that they felt comfortable enough to stand up if they felt strongly about something (however misguided ). Great for CRM. At my airline the cabin crew are encouraged to interact with the flight crew as much as possible to break down any barriers. We are constantly reminded that they are also part of the team especially when dealing with emergency situations. Does your airline have this type of culture? I also encourage my crew to visit the flight deck as much as possible- even going out of my way to get them to feed and water the pilots and collect their rubbish. Even 30 seconds worth of communication is better than none. Perhaps 'forcing' her to spend a small amount of time in the flight deck on quiet sectors could show her that pilots are people too.;) Maybe send her into the flight deck with a purpose such as learning how to use their radio to contact the ground, or get their perspective in an emergency situation. Hope this helps. love SMILE |
SydGirl
The person to whom Mz. Flaps was refering and yourself are an example of why I am glad to be retired. "Touchy Feely " management does not always work with the Generation Exer's. A verball boot in the B&* to you both.:} |
SydGirl like you, I think I should have handled that situation better. But because I don't know how I could have done it better, I posted it here in the hope of getting some feedback from colleagues.
Perhaps, if you re-read my first post, you have some suggestions for me, because honestly, I am a bit stumped with this one. 3 small pointers though. Firstly, I didn't require the rolls for myself. (cheese rolls and weight loss don't go together ;) ) Secondly, half the pax were asleep and from doing that flight at least twice a month, I know that they stay asleep until we wake them up for landing. So no pax would suffer cheese deprivation from 2 rolls going to the cockpit. :) Thirdly, if a polite question and a more insistent but still pleasant question do not work, I do think I am within my rights to order something if that avoids a discussion in front of the pax. In 3 years of being 737 Purser, this was only the second time I have had to resort to an outright order, so it is not something I do lightly. I greatly dislike ordering peole around in fact, but sometimes giving an order just goes with being the boss. Anyway, please give me your honest thoughts on what and how I should have done differently. Smile she is a pleasant, pretty, self assured girl with a lot of different work experiences outside aviation. Not a lot of formal education I believe, but hard working and bright. She said she had no individual bad experiences with pilots but "their arrogance just gets up my t!ts" We used to fly with the door open the whole flight berfore sept 11th and had a very communicative culture between FAs and Pilotson the 737. Since the the closed and locked door policy, this is rapidly changing for the worse. The company doesn't pay much attention to this. Due to cost saving, the joint half-day CRM sessions between cockpit and cabin have been axed, and I can see the whole thing deteriorate. Like you, I encourage the FAs to go to the cockpit and 'feed and water' ;) and also to just bring a cuppa for themselves and go in for a few minutes rest and a chat. In this instance, I told the Captain on the next stretch that I needed him to do some 'cockpit PR' and could he please pay the girl some extra attention and show her around the different bits and buttons in the cockpit if she came in for a chat. After our 4 AM talk the girl herself somewhat grudgingly but with a small grin, offered to take the boys their coffee, and stayed in the cockpit for quite a while. But if that was just to please me or because she really did want to change her attitude I do not know........ Thank you all for taking the time to read and respond. Being able to share stuff like this with people who know what it's like once you're 'up there', is what makes me like this forum! :ok: |
Errr thank you capt cynical, I now consider my B&* to be verbally booted. :{
flapsforty having reread your query, it seems that all was resolved quite nicely thank you very much. I admire the fact that you had the umm.. "balls" (am I allowed to say that?) to speak with her privately and assertively address the issue. Small courtesies such as offering the tech crew scrumptious snackies is indeed a courtesy. Tis not kosher to order colleagues about, no matter how famished one may be. Anyway that's just my opinion. SG :} Edited to fix my terrible spelling. |
Comment from an industry outsider..
In my commercial experience (outside aviation) the best way to break down barriers is to avoid at all costs an 'us and them' situation. Unfortunatly this can be created from nothing ie - FA thinks there is a problem with FD crew because culture or gossip instils this into her. I think it is probably a larger issue outside your control flappy.. it really should be down to the company to positively encourage a 'teamwork' ethos and give the time and facility for this to happen - without either party feeling that they are being forced into anything.
What happens on stopovers - do crew mix freely, socialise together etc? It would appear not. Is there generally arrogance shown to cabin crew from the people at the front - or is it assumed by cabin crew as casual communication on the job is not as easy as in most professions? Tim |
Dear Sydgirl,
Thank you for your PM and your encouragement for my retirement. The point of my post was to highlight the differances generationally speaking, between cabin crew age & expierance. Like the delightful Mz. Flaps I rarely had to order any fellow crew member to do anything that they did not like or agree with. I could count on one hand the number of times this was necessary in my 29 years flying 20 in supervisory roles. By all means if you are asked to do something ask the reason why but please do not point blank refuse. This places the person doing the asking in a awkward position. I hope this clarify's my position on this. Cynical but mellowing.:) |
capt cynical us old fogeys don't need a lot of words to understand eachother, do we? ;)
timmcat right on the money with the dangers of the 'Us and Them' culture. Happily it is not something oft spotted in our company. The fact that it existed at all came as a big surprise to me when I started ppruning in fact. Only place it exists is at the extreme ends of the spectrum. The salary difference between FAs and pilots is rather larger with us than with for example SAS or BA. This leads some FAs to feeling jealous and to stating stupid stuff as mentioned earlier. In my country, unlike for example France and Italy, there is no licence for cabin crew. This leads some pilots to think that all FAs must be dumb and boorish. To answer your other question, we tend to socialise freely and frequently after landing. :) Our culture is very wary of formality, so the informal way a young FA might speak to an old captain would most likely surprise a Brit, a Frenchman or a German. At the same time, problems with people who fail to understand the realities of the chain of command are blessedly rare. Our pilots are as a rule not arrogant, and our FAs are not stupid. But of course there's always the exeption. Hope this answers your questions. SydGirlI answered your PM but apparently your mail box is full......... :ugh: Anyway, to answer your questions. I'm a woman and a flight attendant. No1/Purser/CSD or whatever you wanna call it on the 4 types of 737 our company runs. I guess we will have to agree to differ on the 'chain of command' issue, but we can both live with that I'm sure. :cool: As for talking to the FA concerned, thanks for recognising that it does take 'balls' to do that stuff because in our FA culture we don't like confrontational stuff do we? Don't know if it's the same where you work, but with us it's normal to bend over backwards to avoid even the smallest unpleasantness and that attitude is not always productive..... Anyway, thanks again all for thoughts written....... |
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You handled it a dam site better than I would have. I would have slapped the bitch.
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Oops sorry didn't realise my inbox was full, thanks for getting back to me flapsforty.
As I don't know you very well, I incorrectly assumed you were a pilot! You know what they say about assuming (makes an @ss out of U and ME) - so I'll just go to the other side of the room and take my foot from my mouth. Here I was thinking it was a pilot coming out of the flight deck ordering the FA down the back to give them an olive and cheese roll!!! Slightly different scenario to one if you are the Purser! So please accept my humblest apologies. I shall now go and write "I will not assume" one hundred times in my notebook. Safe Flying. SG :} |
flaps - If you served "McD" up to me, in a cardboard box or not, I would be deliriously happy ....... :p
Safe flying there nice Lady ....... :cool: * I just could NOT resist the above comment - need to work on me discipline - eh? * |
Hmm, there is a chain of command within all flight crew, but on my flights there is a slighty varied chain of 'priority' when it comes to pax food! :-
Pax get what they want (even if they want second meals); no crew eats any pax meals before the pax are all offered ( you never know when a whole rack of something will accidently fall on the floor and then you struggle to feed the pax !) If there is anything left, all cabin crew are offered what they want If there is anything left after that, then the techies are offered what is left..... this isnt 'anti-techie' but they generally get better meals/ more substantial meals than us..... and after all, the cabin crew have had to prepare and serve all the meals, so it is only fair that they get first choice! It may be wrong, or may be right ..... but no crew never eat any pax meals before the pax are all offered .... you never know when you need some spares for the pax ! Thats just the way I run things ! :p |
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