There seem to be enough places on the inter-wily-web claiming to give good pointers about how to get free upgrades (dress smart casual, ask descretely at the gate etc). I've always been sceptical about the success rate of most - the only guarenteed option given is to use airmiles - so not a free upgrade then!
I split my trips between Economy/Business pretty equally - try not to smirk when self important travellers have the 'walk of shame' to the other side of the bulkhead after being told in no uncertain terms that they can't have that inviting seat near the front.

A long-haul Captain mate tells a story of one of his flights where a moron ran from economy to business class and installed herself during take off!! On being told, the captain instructed the crew to completely ignore the individual during the flight, and the hungry person was met at the door by the local Stasi on arrival.:p

I have seen the self upgrade done successfully twice on the BLR-CDG (AF) route. The second cabin of the A330 is almost always completely empty so I always take a seat there (as a regular C pax). More often than not an pax from whY moves up there, settles in full sleep mode in 10 seconds and pretends to be fast asleep. The FA's always try to awake them or argue with them but they (always Indian pax) just become very agressive and the (often all female) cabin crew just leave them there.

Last time when I asked "why? how? but?" they just shrugged and said "it happens so often we get tired of fighting it".

Never ever was there police waiting for them at CDG. Pretty piss poor handling I think.

The only time I have ever in my life been upgraded was on Syrian Arab airlines (many years ago!) on a lightly loaded 747SP where the stewardess asked me if I, and the couple of people I was with, would mind moving from economy to the business section near the front of the aircraft "in order to balance the plane for take off"!

I was surprised as I'm not that big a person! But as I recall I didn't object at the time.

Iberia free upgrade
 

I will confess.

I have pulled this a few times although most of my travel is domestic and therefore classless I did have a great return trip from La Corruna courtesy of Iberia.

Having literally stepped of a yacht after 10 days as sea I caught a taxi straight to the airport with no idea how I was to get back to London for meetings the following day.

I managed tp get the last economy seat on a flight to Madrid with an onward connection to LHR. On boarding I found I was to be sandwiched between Mrs Attila the hun and her toothless Husband. Pausing at the curtains that designate business/first from the cheap seats on the A320 I was ushered into the second row by a steward who didn't bother to check my lowly status. I didn't feel the need to disabuse him of this error and enjoyed a champagne fuelled trip to Madrid.

On the next leg of my journey I simply waited until I was last to board. Smiled at the stewardess parked my arse in a an empty seat at the front. Confidence is everything - I must have looked like tramp ( or an eccentric millionaire) but Igot the full treatment during the flight and ended up getting on very well with a Paris Hilton lookalike on the otherside of the aisle. I can only guess that they were expecting someone who didn't show.

Had I been challenged I would plead ignorance - in English. And apologise profusely.

I have frequently asked on board and before boarding if there are seats free but never had any success that way - understandable really.

Was this theft? No. I paid for my flight. The seat was empty, the meal was provided on the assumption it was to be consumed and would have gone into Cabin Crew if I hadn't been there and, as for the wine, if that made any difference to their bottom line I will eat my lifejacket! Oh, and another thing - it must have improved the flight experience for Mr & Mrs Attila.

Think ive posted this in a previous thread but here goes.

On way to Sharm el Sheikh me, my dad, mum brother and sister. Also my auntie, uncle, and 3 cousins were flying with monarch on i think an A300, after we;d had a 3 hour delay at manchester alot of passengers looking forward to a holiday had been drinking quite alot. We got onto the aircraft and took off, id asked one of the cabin crew members if i could get a copy of the takeoff and landing card from the captain. Part way through the flight theres was a young lad probably about 23? and he had been drinking ALOT and started to get a bit agetated when the cc quite rightly wouldnt serve him anymore alcohol as we were sat in the middle row 3-3-3 my dad asked the cabin crew lady if she would like some assistance in sorting this young man out as he was starting to get very verbal and it was distressing some of the other pax. She asked what my dad ment and he said him and my uncle would sit either side of this unruly gentleman so he would be quiet. When they did this he immediatly shutup (my uncle and dad are both 6'4 and quite built) and the cc thanked them for this at the end of the flight and i got to go onto the flight deck and speak to the captain and first officer :D

On the way back we walked upto checkin and were just expecting a routine flight back to manchester, when we checked in and gave our passports over the lady on the desk told us there was a note on the system and we would be given the 7 seats in the middle with extra leg room (2 people had paid i think as they were sat next to the window on left hand side of the aircraft) and 3 seats in row 1 so needless to say we were very happy people all the way home :D and we just thought that my dad and uncle had helped out the cabin crew deal with an unruly pax.

A story doing the VS rounds, but I was not on the flight.

At check in, a woman of about 50 odd and her husband arrived- her on crutches, covered in neoprene supports (she was, not the crutches).

Spent ages arguing with check in about emergency rows- (sorry you're disabled- you need to be able bodied) then came the upgrade blag and sob stories and then angry confrontation.

The guys said they'd not promise, but SFU'd her on the system anyway.

Her condition obviously vaccilates wildly as said woman was then clearly spotted in the terminal enjoying a miraculous recovery worthy of Lazarus, sprinting around World Duty Free like a spring chicken on ephidrene sans neoprene supports.

Unfortunate and major relapse when boarding time came and out came the supports and sob story again.

Crew pointed out that it's amazing how these illnesses manifest then go away.

Needless to say not upgraded.

I am sure she'd have then written a 3 page complaint letter of rightous indignation claiming callous treatment

Slightly off topic...

When I am flying in business class or am near the front of economy and am not in the mood to read when I board, I watch the boarding passengers to pass the time.

I sometimes try and guess which will be the economy passengers who will get to the curtain/divider and then stop to recheck their ticket in the hope that despite everything they ARE in business class (presumably because they got an upgrade that no-one bothered to mention). There is a quite clear thought process that goes on. With some there is a subsequent bit of body language along the lines of "well I should be in business class but someone made a mistake and now I have to sit in economy with the proles but just be clear I really belong up the front"

I doubt CC have the time to observe this little ritual as much as I do though

On my last flight with 'extra' legroom it was pleasing to note that those pax who could not fit in the minimal pitch seats had indeed bought the extra space.

One thing we had been dreading was having Mr or Mrs Atilla in the 3rd seat in our row. I guess one strategy would be to book the left and right seats in the hope that no one would book the middle. Then offer them a window or aisle if they had booked that seat.

I was once travelling with EY in business, and was quietly enjoying the pre take off orange juice, when a really big woman (the kind that dont sit down, but rather get to a certain point and then let gravity take over) and she really smelled.

I thought "christ on a stick - I cant put up with this", and started a scan of the cabin to try and locate an empty bolt hole to move to. The lady looked at my juice, and this must have made her thirsty, because she opened up one of her "Tesco" carrier bags and produced a litre of pinapple juice, and started to swig from the carton (most went into the mouth, but some dribbled down the chins).

Cabin was filling up - so I was starting to get a sweat on, when a cc asked to see the ladies boarding card, and escorted her to her correct seat (42B) - Obviously I was relieved (took about an hour for the smell to dissapate though) but did feel sorry for anybody sitting in 42A or C

Sometimes they pay for it
 

Was on a flight LAX to Frankfurt and not long after T/O two middle aged german guys waltzed up to First Class, sat down in 2 empty seats and refused to move. The cabin crew spoke nicely with them and they clearly stated "we are not second class citizens and we demand that we stay here and be served". The crew spoke with F/D who sent a msg via ACARS to airport manager who said give them everything they ask for. He then arranged to meet the aircraft with the police. On arrival these two smugg b'stards left thinking they had pulled it off and when the got to the door there was the local manager with authorities. He asked if they would like to pay by cash or credit card and their jaws dropped. Dropped even further when he stated the diff in fare was in region of $5000 each. They blustered they wouldnt pay at which point the Police advised they WOULD be arrested and charged with fraud. Great outcome.

On another nmore recent flight a very large but immaculately dressed and lovely man boarded and sat down in front of econ by boarding door. On come Mrs Nose-in-the-air and her long suffering husband to sit beside him. The fun started immediately with her huffing and puffing and stating when are the crew going to do something about this. She couldnt contain herself and then demanded the crew move the man or upgrade them. The crew stated the a/c was full in econ and were very sorry. Poor large man was acutely embarrassed. She then almost started screaming saying "well arent there any seats in first class". The CC went away and came back stating "yes madam there are actually several spare seats in first class today so we can accommodate your request" At that she stood up with a very smug look on her face and the CC looked at the poor large gentleman and with a huge grin on his face said "... so Sir if you dont mind coming with me please...". Was priceless. God I hate when they reward bad behaviour. :D :D :D

You may well have paid for a tkt but not in the class you travelled. So it was theft no matter how you try to rationalize it.

Very similar to a couple of the stories that have been posted already, and very similar to DIA74's, is one I was told while doing my flying training for my ATPL's. One of my fellow students was an ex CC and told us this story;

Shortly after boarding, one very racist passenger kept complaining that he 'couldn't sit so close to this type of person for the duration of the flight'. My friend then said he would look into a solution immediately. A few minutes later he returned, and said to the racist passenger 'would a free upgrade to First Class with all the extras we can offer for free be suitable sir?'. Said racist man with a very smug grin, 'that would be perfect'. No prizes I'm affraid for guessing who got the upgrade!

Racist man got dirty looks for the whole of the flight, but never looked up or said a thing!

Just like to take this opportunity to thank all the cabin staff who go the 'extra mile' when I travel with them when I'm in uniform, the free coffe and water really do make a difference, especially after a few long days at work, nice to see the camaraderie works between airlines. :ok:

I Was Upgraded
 

I flew as a passenger from LHR to Cairo. I boarded quite late. The previous day I had an osteopath's appointment, so I needed a seat with a little room. Check-in staff were a great help and placed me in an economy aisle seat in the middle run. When I went to the seat number I discovered a business man was sat in it and his partner in crime, another business man was sat in the other aisle seat, with a spare seat in between. Would that bitch business man move his behind? No he would not. A pretty cabin crew observed my observation and I mentioned my back. There were no other aisle seats vacant. The cabin crew asked if I had any proof of my back complaint. I pulled out my appointment card from my wallet. She took this to the CSD who returned and in front of the business men asked the cabin crew if they had sufficient catering in club class. She confirmed that she had. Then the CSD asked me to collect my hand luggage and follow him to club class. The business mens' faces were a sight to behold!:D

Normally when upgraded I am given a new boarding pass with the new seat number printed on it. On one occasion, though, when I was upgraded from Club World to First, staff at the gate simply wrote my new seat number in ink on my existing boarding card. I did wonder whether the cabin crew might think that I'd done this myself in order to obtain an upgrade but figured that the crew would doubtless have a list of all the passengers in First that day and their seat numbers.
P.S. The gate staff did not tell me that I'd been upgraded, simply that my seat had been changed. I could tell instantly, however, from the seat number that I was not travelling in Club World that day!

I am just a non-regular SLF, but rather tall (approx. 2 m), and accepting the very limited space in economy. I will try to get a seat with some extra space, eg emergency exit, but usually this is impossible, even when trying to check in through internet 30 hrs prior to departure. Flying in an airliner is an inconvenience to me, which I will try to avoid if possible. Nevertheless, sometimes it is unavoidable and I accept the consequences of an affordable (to me) fare. As the Dutch are amongst the tallest people in the world, it strikes me as odd that even KLM offers very, very little space. I do have little faith in walking away unharmed in case the a/c would crash.
Still, obviously, I would not sneak into business class or try to talk myself into it with excuses. I will ask the crew if it is ok to switch seats within economy class, if there is a more spacious seat available.

Only once I made a mistake, not aware of the fact that the first row in economy actually was an upgraded class. It was only a small aircraft and the first row of economy was empty, me - somewhere in the back - having no leg space whatsoever. So I asked the cc and got a very annoyed answer that it was an upgrade and that I was not allowed to sit there unless I paid for it - I assume I was not the first to pop that question. It left me a bit uncomfortable, since it was impossible for the passengers to see they were upgraded seats.

Premium Pax rip off
 

Look,

let's be clear on this. Premium classes , except on long haul services, are seldom effectively differentiated between economy, other than by the flimsy addition of a curtain - whoop de do! Seat pitch is often the same given that many the A/C operate on a mix of single class domestic and international short haul!

So the premium paid is for what? Better food - What's that worth? Better service - there shouldn't be any difference! anything else? Front row seats - so what is the actual cost difference between providing a seat in row 5 to a seat in row 6? If that happens to be where the curtain comes to rest! Come on - pray tell. Premium class on short haul is an artificial veneer!

The only thing that is genuinely worth paying for on any airline is flexibility (which may also assist in earning frequent flyer rewards).

Who suffered any loss as a result on my actions? Theft is definied as misappropriation with the intent to permanently deprive - I think you actually mean trespass, for which the remedy is quite simple - ask the perpetrator to remove! If this is not done then no complaint of trespass can be upheld.

Without any challenge it could be argued that CC gave tacit approval to my occupancy of the wrong seat.

Keep your wits about you!

If there is so little difference - why did you go to the trouble of fraudulently changing classes?

Munneyspinner - no matter how you try and justify it, you were wrong.

What you seem to be implying is that unless somebody points it out to you, and asks you to move your backside back to the seat that you paid for, its alright?

I take it you also think its ok to pay for the cheap seats at a concert and then go and sit in the front row if there is a spare seat?

Each class of seat comes at a price - fact.

You are obviously well aware of this, and choose to pay the lower price - fact.

You then dont see anything wrong in sitting in a seat which is sold at a higher price - theft/trespass - whatever, it is still wrong!

prat

Theft ... fraud ... all the same thing. Goods or services obtained dishonestly.

Two sides to every coin.
 

Great analogy.

Empty seat at concert.

OK is it empty because

1.) it hasn't been sold?
2.) it has been sold but nobody has turned up?

In case 1. it has failed to attract revenue and that fact that someone else is occupying is it opportunistic but ( and remember it has failed to sell) this hasn't cost the organiser anything. Neither the bloke from the cheapseats nor anyone esle was going to pay to sit there but the seat exists and the concert goes on. So someone makes use of it.

In case 2. The seat is bought and paid for but no-one shows for whatever reason. The seat is has generated revenue for the organiser - he has suffered no loss. The concert goes on. The bloke that decides to occupy it has, presumably also paid for a seat. If the rightful owner shows up he will get his seat and the interloper goes back to the cheapseats.

For any commercial flight the second the door closes ( gate closes or 35 minutes pre departure at T5 ) then an empty seat on an aircraft is worthless. It is a drag on revenue, a cost to the airline. It has failed to sell , yield has not been maximised. The cost of that seat whether it be in row 1 or row 21 is exactly the same. Their respective revenue generating potential is significantly different only until the ticket desk closes. On board, they are indistinguishable - every empty seat costs the same. Arguably, the cost of an empty premium seat is higher as the middle row seats are usually not sold. It would therefore always make sense to upgrade pax if there is a better opportunity to sell an economy seat where there is no prospect of selling premium.

If the seats had anything other than perceived value it would be easy to auction the seats after boarding! Clearly, this is a. not practical and b. would only serve to alienate those willing to pay premium prices for ordinary seats.

So let's just put things in perspective. If I or anyone else gets away with sitting in a 'better' seat it is opportunistic and subject to fair challenge. In the absence of any challenge from CC, with the benefit of pax manifest, seat allocation and loyalty card staus etc. is that down solely to theft/trespass on their part or ineptitude or complacency on the part of CC - or both? Knock for knock.

Finally, I would seriously challenge the assertion that one seat is 'better' than another simply by the placement of a moveable curtain - which more often than not is what differentiates premium from cattle class on short haul flights - I know you will tell me if I'm wrong!

For the avoidance of doubt, whilst the economics of long haul are essentially the same I do regard premium seats as offering more than 'perceived' value on longhaul services.

Like I said you can give as many reasons that make you feel OK about stealing or opportunistically sitting in an empty seat as you like but YOU know that it's the wrong thing to do. :ugh:

Munnyspinner, whilst I applaud you for trying to state your case in this debate, that is where my admiration for your behaviour ends.

I am the quiet, law-abiding (larger) customer that pays for my ticket, boards the aircraft when called, avoids asking for extra service as the CC have enough work to do, never put my seat back unless the seat behind is empty, takes whatever seat is assigned to me, and send compliments to the airline should the service warrant it. I'm not a martyr, just getting from point A to point B as quickly and efficiently as possible. Petty things like an extra degree of seat pitch just aren't worth the effect on my conscience.

If there are other people on the flight like you, then the CC have to spend precious pre-takeoff time dealing with the issue of who gets which seat, delaying me and my fellow pax. It's not about revenue, theft, or misappropriation, just 'doing what is right'.

I believe that given that the anti-terror 'air police' presence and/or requirements, that there should be an additional crew member on all 100+ pax flights dressed as a security guard (without a firearm). For selfish idiots that try jumping classes or Y class louts drinking everyone elses share of beverage, their name is taken, they are escorted back to their assigned seat, and a note made in the airlines loyalty system so that next time they fly, check-in crew can be on the lookout for them.

If I had paid US$5k for a business class seat, and Joe Economy slides in next to me on his US$1k Y class fare, I'd sure be upset with the airline that he be allowed to get away with it...

My 2c.

Taking something, whether it be goods or service, without paying for it is theft pure and simple. If your moral compass will allow you to do that then no argument on here will persuade you that you are wrong. However, be prepared to accept that a judge may not see things in the same light as you. Also be prepared that the place where you may be arguing your case may be a country where theft is viewed a little more harshly than the in the western world. Remember the law of the land you are in applies with the doors open - so if you fly into Saudi Arabia, then you will be charged with theft in Saudi Arabia.

The old maxim of if you can't do the time don't do the crime is very apt here. Also gaining a criminal record can directly affect your career prospects - many employers take a dim view of their employees engaging in criminal activity. But hey if you are happy to be a thief, please do carry on.

In my current line of work I deal with theft every day. The definition is (basically) when someone dishonestly appropriates from another with the intent to permanently deprive them.

Munneyspinner

may I ask what your business is?

I suppose thats an argument munnyspinner, I wouldnt like to rely on it though.
Surely any passenger who 'self upgrades' will only take the seat space. I'm sure the Cabin Crew know who their class passengers are, and the upgrader is unlikely to get fed or watered in addition to nicking the seat space. (Id hope!) But if its not theft per se, it's what we used to call 'improper possession'. :=

May I suggest that any CC working out of T5 on short-haul watch out our good friend moneyspinner.

If you catch him, please let us know what you do to him. And moneyspinner, if they catch you and get you arrested, let us know what the foreign judge thinks of your explanation that it is not fraud or theft.

You can argue the legalities as much as you like. Speaking as SLF myself, what really grates is the arrogant presumption of some of my "fellow" passengers in this regard.

Rest assured all you FAs out there, a polite but firm hand with all these self important idiots generates considerable admiration from those of us who appear to be sitting quietly reading our newspaper.

just a curtain that separates 'cattle 'from premium,so why on the last overnight flight i did were all the passengers in prem.economy all fast asleep,while all in 'cattle' class wide awake !!!

Setting the record straight
 

I'm not surprised at the self righteous prognostication on this subject but decided to do some proper research.

The offence would not be theft but fraud, in terms of the Fraud act of 2006, this of course depends on which airline the 'offence' occured and in which country. Obtaining services by fraudelent representation . i.e. presenting oneself as a premium class passenger when knowingly not. The test applied here in the UK would that established in R vs Ghosh. That a reasonable person ( the one of the clapham omnibus) would know what he was doing was wrong.

However, looking for examples of cases and prosecutions of individuals in such cases I can find none. Surely, there will be some but they are certainly not as well recorded as prosecutions for other offences on board or against airline employees for theft and fraud.

I wondered why this might be.

First, that it would be reasonable for CC to check that passengers are sitting where they should be and challenge them if not. If CC knows that someone is sitting in the worng seat and then serves them a premium meal as a premium passenger knowing that they are cattle class then the CC is also committing an offence. Two wrongs don't make a right and if the airline wanted to make a complaint of fraud then both may be liable to prosecution.

Second. Even where offences have been perpetrated and the airline may wish to prosecute it is probably not cost effective to do so given that their loss is nominal. It is not something that happens very often, the cost is insignificant and the time and resource to follow it up isn't worth it ( CC appearing in court etc. )

Third, and this is speculation on my part. Were a prosecution to arise the ailine would be called upon the state their loss. Now many will argue that this is simply the difference between the price of a premium class ticket and economy class but it is not. The actual loss is negligible as the seat which was occupied fraudulently was only done so after the opportunity to sell that seat at the full price had passed. The prosecutors would also need to demonstrate that the fraudster had boarded the flight with the specific intention of sitting in Premium class without the appropriate ticket - very difficult to do.

Yes it is wrong. Yes it may be a criminal matter although there are civil remedies available. But, based on the evidence in the UK at least, it doesn't appear to be a problem that the airlines complain about or , if they do, that the authorities successfully prosecute.

Let's see which airline wants to draw attention the sparse difference between the basic service and premium service on short haul flights but the huge price differential!

Good fishing trip munneyspinner, well done! :hmm:

Theft or Deception? It all comes down to Standards
 

As very frequent flyer I'll use points to upgrade if there's availability - often my flights are at short notice so I'll ask at check-in. There've been a couple of occasions I've been asked by the Crew if "I'd mind moving up forward?", and I don't mind at all - I like to think it's recognition of the "get what you give" attitude.

Obnoxious, anything "challenged" SLF don't deserve the time of day! More often than not they've deliberately tried the bluff/bluster so give it back to them "in the nicest possible way" of course.

If you didn't pay for it, it's not yours to take! If the crew offer, be grateful, but to take advantage of busy crew is deceitful - :mad:!

Figures - hes a lawyer...

More wine!

If he is a lawyer, then Munnyspinner will have also noted my comment about the offence being relevant to the country the aircraft landed in. UK law applies in the air on G registered aircraft, but not when the doors are open, on the ground in another country. Then the local laws apply and these are the laws you would be charged with. The points made by Munnyspinner are valid in the UK but are subject to the law of other lands when elsewhere. If you are happy to argue legal niceties when the loss of a hand may be at stake keep moving seat.:}

And sometimes that's the best part. I seem to recall some Australian businessmen who were unpleasant on a flight into Dubai and spent six months eating fermented camel meat in some local jail. I expect lawyers don't get treated so well.

Getting back on topic. You can argue that some things are hard to prove and you can weasel out of criminal prosecutions but we all know you are wrong. Especially the idiotic part about it being the responsability of CC to make sure you are not committing fraud. So if I rob a bank and the staff don't stop me then it is legal? If you ever pass your old law school go and ask for your money back.

Quite apart from being thoroughly astonished at his attitude, I've finally clicked about the derivation of Munnyspinner's choice of monniker - quite simply, someone who spins money is by definition a "tosser"!:ok:

Jack