Hello ALL!!!
 

I really find it comforting that I am not alone in feeling angry and frustrated that we the cabin crew at VAA are poorly paid and really not regarded as a priority to the company!

How about not splashing out on a Clubhouse untill you can afford to pay your emplyoyees!

How about concesions we can use? FLights are constantly full and standing at the SBY desk in LHR being spoken to like a bloody retard is NOT my idea of going on holiday.

With our leave we ar robbed too... Anyone who does M-F takes 5 days leave and gets 9 from the weekends either side, We take 5 and we are lucky to get the 7.

Last month I had leave and instead of my full 9 days off I got 6 plus my leave so where are my days off??? Absorbed into my leave!

Anyone on here who actually believes that Virgin treat us in any way fairly or pay us the wage we deserve is either still on their probation or hasn't actually lived in the real world.

I thankfully am leaving soon and hope that one day either through strike or negotiation Virgin crew get a wage they can live on and some stability in their lives.

so what does everyone think of the pay increase? what we have been offered personally its still not enough and as for the monthly standby its defo a big fat no from me

I think the new pay offer is definately an improvement. Although it focuses more on a better pay increase for FSMs and CSSs, I think that it will encourage people who join to have a career with Virgin. Why should someone who stays with the company for 6 months and then leaves receive the same pay increases as someone who's been with the company for 6 years?

As I've said before on this thread, I think that the monthly standby is a good thing. It will cut down on the roster disruption that follows from being called out for a HKG-SYD or being called on your last day of standby. We can also call pre-ops ahead of time and usually get a trip anyway. I'm a commuter but I can make it to Heathrow in 2 hrs and Gatwick in 3 so it wouldn't be such a hassle for me if it was introduced. Having said that I do feel for those people that commute from further afield. I think most crew I've spoken to are split down the middle on this one...

One issue that really concerns me is the amount of crew that appear to relish the idea of going to industrial action. I really think they are taking this far too lightly. The amount of texts flying around with the helpful "JUST SAY NO" message really aren't doing anyone any favours. A strike would cripple Virgin and I have no doubt that SRB would flog Atlantic to another major airline if he had no further financial use for it.

We should think very carefully about this voting this time around.

KTP xx

Im with you KTpops on this one, i hope it doesnt end in strike action. I really think this is not a bad pay deal (though im not saying its excellent) after seeing it clearly on paper in the latest PTT. With trip pay, juniors will be on just over £1100 extra per year and seniors on an extra £1400. Yes its even better for CSS and FSM but thats what promotion is all about, better money. and i dont think monthly standby will be that bad.
Im curious to know what other crew think the pay rise should be at, because i feel that some crew have unrealistic expectations

I really think that we need to say yes... I have been with VS and I love my job.....Its the best

I think we should say yes and then next year or year after talk again.........
I just think that if we all say no... they will give up for another year... at the moment anything is great, once we got pay rise they can never take it from us....So the only way will be up!!!

I really hope it goes through...............
All those who live all over UK......... Dont worry about the monthly standby.......... it will be just fine...
will get fights etc!!!

It will be nice to have a four figure monthly salary than just 3!!

xx

Ok mate, the one slip was for both payrise and standby

ie you can not vote for pay and then vote for stand by!!

Bit cheeky I know!!

It's not over until the fat lady sings!!! Would further negotiation for the offered pay but with a 2 week standby be a prefered option??? This would give you more stability & possibly better income from trip pay/expenses depending on your standby month.

Don't sell yourselves short here, nobody wants strike action OR a months standby (with no guaranteed trips). Saying no at this stage doesn't make strike action a certainty, just shows the company how you all really feel.

Don't fall for the old fuel price rubbish, if the fuel price is hurting that bad why have they just reduced the fuel surcharge on tickets!!!!!!

2DMoon that table sounds great, are you able to display it here for us?

Thanks!

:O

2dmoon, your 60-40 split in favour is apparently fairly accurate. As i would expect, by dragging out the pay talks & by addressing individual groups they've managed to get a less than perfect pay deal & a stand by period (that will induce more sick notes than an Xmas day Lagos) through!!!!!!!!!

I know of a few people (especially part time) who are just fed up with it all taking so long & want to see the money in their pocket, they don't intend to do the stand by month (how do you work stand by for a month if you have children????).

It's in the hands of the voters now, but please don't complain afterwards if other departments hold out & negotiate a better deal!!!!!

thank you 2damoon finally someone has worked out the difference in the the pay deals and i have to agree anyone that excepts the offer by the company is mad!!

once again we will be screwed over and to be honest after we recieve the short term windfall of money lol in allowances and back dated pay in jan crew will realise how screwed over we were!!

and i bet the company will announce its new updated y&w product after they realised how much money they have saved again on the crew just like they did last time with the upper class suite!!!

the vote is in your hands!!

vote no

I don't object to the company spending more money on marketing strategies like the UCS, new and improved clubhouse and (finally) an improved Y and W service. Surely even the most jaded employees can see that we NEED to have a polished and competitive product in order to stay ahead of the game.

It's a bit stupid to whinge "why did they spend all those millions on the UCS when they could've spent it on us??"

More business will equal better pay for us, I think we should vote yes to this paydeal as it will be reviewed next year anyway.

KTP xx

:suspect:

I think the backpay before xmas is what sealed the deal unfortunately

Well folks, I hope your looking forward to a months standby!!!!! If only you got as big a bonus in your pay as LM will for pushing this through???

On the plus side there will be money left in the bank for the flightdeck!!!!!!

Ask your CC89 rep for all the answers????

The choice WAS yours!! Short term financial gain for long term future of a month of stand by, SR, LS & ML must love LM (nearly as much as the CC89 reps who advised you all so well)!!!!

So much for roster stability, I hope you realise that during the month of standby you have NO guarantees of any income or trips!!! Basic (basic being the operative word) pay is obviously enough to live on. Also seniority won't be taken into account, so look forward to Xmas & New Year standby too!!!!!

Still better luck next year, you've really shown the management what your made of (but don't think that the standby will be up for negotiation, you've said yes for good).

well i would like to personally congratulate everyone who voted yes to the pay deal !! once again you all have been taken for a ride by the company you excepted monthly standby and take the most stupid increase in wages !! its highly unlikely the back dated money will be in decembers pay and to be honest none of you have considered the long term aspect of this paydeal!! god help us all once again virgin cabin crew have truly shown that they are the brains of the industry... and when you all start complaining about how our allowances are getting worse and moaning about pay i dont want to hear it at !you have dug ur graves now u can lie in them!

All this talk over pay is putting me off joining Virgin! Im coming over from bmi where pay isn't that bad (as much as ?0„51400 on a good month) however moral at bmi is low everyone is leaving to BA ,qanats or getting out of flying completley. I just hope that this is not the case at Virgin? I knew the pay was low but its the trips i want it for and it seems like they treat the staff well??
Does anyone one have a list of allowances for the destinations much like the pay table on a previous post would be a great help.

Well folks this pay has part of the backpay in it - I hope the one off payment of something like GBP300 less tax makes the monthly standby's worthwhile!

I know a crew member from Virgin has just joined BA Eurofleet on the New contract as things have got so bad at VS.

It's a shame such good people I meet down route are treated like this.I've flown with VS and always found the crew great.

If they can't look after them and p them off they're welcome to work with us.

Good luck to you all,don't worry SRB will be having a great Christmas.

WTDWL.

i know there are loads of people leaving virgin to go to ba and i dont blame them personally i have had enough nobody is willing to stand up to the companyand fight for a decent pay ...i hope all of you that voted yes to the pay deal were sick when you saw your taxed back payment that will teach you all !!! and nothing is going to impove either as for your extra pay for doing your xmas trip its going to be taxed that will teach you all a lesson!! all i can do is pray that they will bring back the maths test in the new year for new entrants to virgin so that they could actually calulate how much of a bad pay deal we were offered#!!!! merry christmas and to all at virgin atlantic if you have any sence go sick for christmas spend time with your families and friends just remember the company doesnt do you any favours so dont do them any!!!

What a ray of sunshine you must be to fly with virgincrew99. What exactly is it that virgin have done to you other than offer you a job? whatever it is it must have been close to blue murder because its made you so nasty, bitter and twisted, or perhaps you have always been that way. Either way I hope you have handed your notice in because you sound like a very unpleasant crew member to fly with.
Oh and by the way you would realy hate me as i voted for the pay deal as it was a good deal for css, and im sorry to inform you virgin99 that it didnt make me sick like you so charmingly hoped for!

Well it looks as if there will be plenty of career opportunities coming up at VS as I cannot believe that these disgusted and abused people like VC99 and striker will allow themselves to be so unappreciated. I am sure their letters of resignation are already in the post..................................................... not


You know sometimes the people who moan about low or poor morale are the very people who actually cause it by their morose attitude and constant whining. The pay deal was accepted by a majority of 10%, though it was closer than many expected, so either accept it and get on with enjoying the good bits of the job, or leave. By staying and going sick you are mainly letting yourself, your colleagues and the passengers down, I doubt the management will notice as there are so many crew.

Re: Virgin Crew Pay Ballot Have You Had Enough
 

Striker they have been saying that every year, is this galley fm or have the company issued a notice to say that?

Re: Virgin Crew Pay Ballot Have You Had Enough
 

I voted no for the pay deal but, shock-horror, worked both Christmas and New year! Yes, I was annoyed that the deal went through and not entirely convinced it was all above board as I've yet to find anyone who admitted to voting yes, but the bottom line is I have a choice to stay at Virgin and accept that the pay is not great or I can leave! To everyone who phoned in sick at Christmas, you weren't getting revenge on Virgin, you were just screwing over your colleagues who had to work crew down or who got called out! Linda Moir still got her big bonus and I bet she was at home Christmas day!!!!!!

Re: Virgin Crew Pay Ballot Have You Had Enough
 

Varga girl has a point. By not working xmas and NY you were only showing the company what a shoddy workforce some of us (ie vc99 and striker) are and causing your colleagues grief. I personally think its a rather childish and selfish way of making a point and it gives the company even more reason not to reward us with a decent pay rise. Instead they might make life even harder for us all next year by putting even more of us on standby to cover all these sickies, so thanks for that.

Re: Virgin Crew Pay Ballot Have You Had Enough
 

Hello!
Please forgive me if I anger anyone here, but would I be correct in suggesting that alot of VS cabin crew are upset with their pay and conditions and are thus demoralised? I have been on the Skytrax website and when reading the airline reviews given by passengers for Virgin Atlantic, alot if not all of them comment on the declining levels of service. The ones published now are not that bad compared to the others published before Aug'05! I am sure most of you are very professional and are excellent at your jobs (that is certainly I how felt about VS on a flight I was on last year), but when you compare the comments with the comments given to BA and other airlines, it saddens me that such a great airline is being considered in such a way.
I would just like to ask, would you consider the comments on the Skytrax website a minority OR are there certain memebers of cabin crew who are demoralised and have had enough?
Check it out for yourself:
http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/seats.htm
and then scroll down to Virgin Atlantic.
I really did not meant to cause offence, and if I have I am sorry.

Re: Virgin Crew Pay Ballot Have You Had Enough
 

Hi Concorde001
Just been on that web site and it makes quite depressing reading!!
I think it's true that some crew are demoralised and some are just clearly in the wrong job! One thing struck me about a lot of the pax comments though, a lot of it seems to be down to the service flows that Virgin provide for us to work to. I think it's awful that we only do one drinks service on a 10 hour flight. Yes, pax can ask for more but a lot of them aren't aware of this, or, if they do ask, they get snarled at by one of the "demoralised" crew!! I also hate combining the service-six hours is still a long time for pax, no matter how quick it seems for us!! Anyway, as you can probably guess, I'm ex charter so used to doing lots on short flight-be interesting to see whether other VAA crew agree with me!!

Re: Virgin Crew Pay Ballot Have You Had Enough
 

I agree with you varga, i to found it a depressing read as i never realised things seemed that bad to the pax. There are to many CSS's out there trying to change the service and it causes inconsistencies. Also the disaster of the upper class goodnight service hasnt helped. I dont understand why people in the office are trying to make services shorter and fewer, i wonder if they would ever look on that website. When i first joined the company only 5 years ago pax used to get so much more, especially premium. Now i feel embarrassed serving premium especially on the lower deck of the 400. I dont blame pax for being annoyed when they see they have been seated there.
I dont think its unreasonable to go out and do another proper drinks service (not just oj and water) on the longer flights, because a lot of pax are not made to feel as if they can ask for another drink. But the problem is this has to be implemented in from the office so everybody does the same, otherwise it causes more inconsistency.

Re: Virgin Crew Pay Ballot Have You Had Enough
 

Thanks for your replies Varga and Sukigirl.
I was wondering, what would be the reaction of your managers if one of you presented these comments to them? Do you think VS head office look at the comments on Skytrax?
If they saw the way in which Virgin's great reputation is being run down, they might act! I remember reading airline reviews in the late 90s and if you ever compared VS with BA, VS always got the most praise - the airline was regarded as innovative with great customer service. Now, it seems the tide had turned - BA are getting rave reviews (have a look on the Skytrax website) and VS sadly are not!
Once again, I am a VS fan - think its a great airline. It just saddens me that the an increasing number don't think so.
Will any of you consider showing these comments to your colleagues / managers?

Re: Virgin Crew Pay Ballot Have You Had Enough
 

LOL OH MY GOD YES!!!!!

I used to fly, now on the ground, and i HATE putting pax in those seats. I was SO embarrassed when my mum and i sat in those seats - we were practically in the galley and unfortunately on that flight we had a couple of crew who did nothing but slag the company off - clearly they thought a flimsy bit of curtain is enough to muffle their voices, but i could hear them, so could my mum, and most certainly all the rev pax around me!!

Those seats should not be W!

Re: Virgin Crew Pay Ballot Have You Had Enough
 

Who the hell are these people who don't work for VS and have the nerves to tell you guys that your are WELL PAID???
Fact is none of us in the aviation world are WELL PAID for the amount of time we spend at work in an ENJOYABLE but UNHEALTHY environement (eg communicable disease, poor oxygen quality cabins, jet lag ect...).
So to these people 850-1000£/month is a LOT? Maybe in Latvia! Certainly not in London.
There are some airlines who pay more than others but none of them pay WELL.Including BA who I work for.If crew at major airlines like VS and BA don't fight for salary and benefits, crew at smaller airlines would get even less money that they do now simply because we benchmark other UK airline workers' wages.

Re: Virgin Crew Pay Ballot Have You Had Enough
 

I agree with crew74. I can't understand those of u that don't even work for virgin, or even as crew yet still try and give lectures on why vs crew don't shut up and smile at getting less than £1000 per month. Yes, they all knew it wasn't well paid when they signed up but that doesn't mean they're not entitled 2 fight 4 better pay. There r 2 many people on this sight who think they know everythin about everythin. I say good luck 2 all u vs crew, its hard enough bein crew n tryin to have relationships and good work/life balances without the stress of debts aswell, cause i've tried livin near heathrow on that wage and believe me, its barely possible.

happy flyin vs crews

Cabin crew complaining about less services???
 

Varga Girl is complaining about combining the drinks and meals on shorter flights, however, bear in mind that these services are combined only on night flights when passengers want to get some sleep. If you were to do drinks and meals separately, it could take up to 2 hours or more and then that gives them only an hour of sleep before waking them up again for breakfast. I think we would have more complaints from the passengers then.... surely? What does everyone else think?
:confused:

Cant believe you guys earn less the charter!
 

Its hard to believe you guys get less money than us charter lot. We do, do alot more work than you guys and there is no room for argument there i am very sure of that, but the basic wage and comission break down that was up above WOW.

I dont know why you guys stay there! I work for the 2nd largest charter airline at lgw and i dont bring home less than a grand after tax, and that doesnt incude my trip money which next month will be over 600 pounds. I know you guys get awesome consessions but as someone said you guys cant afford to use them. I dont know why you guys stay there, you must get stick off the pax just like us, maybe not as much. It cant be just coz u like the uniform, can it?

I do have to leave this note with a bit a a stab at VA. I know the money isnt great but I have positioned out with you guys, the amount of services (lack of) ,the amount of rest you guys get oh and not forgetting the rest area, what do you expect. If you want more money come and work in the charter zone but you will have to work for it and your crew rest area will turn into a bar box in a cramped galley.:ok:

p.s keep fighting though guys, in every airline, the job is hard the money is well earned and never enough but life is hard. good luck with your pay talks!