virgincrew99

OK I'll answer a few of your questions even though you seem to have chosen to ignore some of mine.

I have plenty idea of the value of money.

I used to work for MON and then EZY. I chose to take a £9.5k paycut when I left EZY to work for a travel agency flogging holidays. I knew what I was getting into when I made that move.

When at MON I went to 2 different places to get a mortgage - first one was Abbey National (as they then were) and another was an independent mortgage advisor at the Bradford & Bingley. Both of them took into account allowances earned in the past to work out a "rough" figure for what would be earned in future.

While @ EZY my partner did the same at the Abbey.

Only last month a friend of mine who still flies went to an independent mortgage advisor and she was offered a mortgage with her allowances taken into consideration.

I live about 90 mins from LGW and 45 odd from LHR. The housing costs here are not astronomical - they could be a darn site higher if you wanna live closer to either airport. Can easily get a 2 bed terrace in nice area of town for £110k. Or rent for around £500 per month.

Your nightstop allowance is exactly that - to cover your costs when nightstopping. Your travel costs don't really come into it, unless you're doing loads of long trips then your average cost to get to work will drop as you are having to get there less often while being covered by a greater amount of money. No matter where you work or who you work for - you are gonna have to shell out to get to where you work!

I think what you need to do is remember that you chose to accept the job offer made to you. Nobody is forcing you to stay there. However if you are choosing to stay there, then perhaps you need to get a bit more savvy in shopping around for products & services all round - and I don't just mean the cheapest way to Delsey-Dine on your next trip ;)

cheers ;)
FF

OK LETS GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS!
 

Now then Now...................................................

Ok I have been at Virgin for 3 years. I have read everyones comments and I agree with you all, and respect your views.

HOWEVER, I enjoy my job a lot and I like working for the company in general.
Yet, our economy is soaring and things are expensive. You go to work to pay the bills and put food on the table.

There for I think all we are asking our company is to move with inflation and our booming economy.

Our allowences are not allowed to be included in our mortgage proposals as they are tax free and are regulated by HM inland revenue.

I am not complaining, but as in any profession (and becoming crew is now a profession) you have the right to ask for a pay increase. Fire Fighters, Doctors, Nurses etc. I should know I was a nurse.

I only work 85 hours a month and for that I get 865 per month that works out at ten pounds and 17 pence an hour!! That not bad, but as a full time wage it is not amazing, but ok.

So I think it is ok to vote for more money and there is no right or wrong answer.

But the percentage rate offered is not moving with our economic growth. Some of you say leave?!?! Why should we?!?! It would be giving up. In any job you strive to get a pay rise. So lets work with it and see what happends!?!?

Dont loose your tempers, we all have our reasons and own opinions! So lets wait and see.

Happy landings GUYS!!! XX

cant believe the reasoning behind some people! Cabin crew is not a well paid job so we'll just keep it that way by not asking for anymore?!!

Hello???

If your union asks you to vote against a measly pay increase because you could be getting more you'll turn that down because you want to accept the poor pay you already get? Thats it roll over stick your heads in the sand and go nowhere! Thats why Cabin Crew Unions are often a joke as they know nothing will happen as we never stick together unlike the pilots! We fight for nothing.

You dont ask you dont get. Fight hard and strong and you might end up being paid the best of any airline crew, would that be such a bad thing?

Why do you think pilots are paid so much? Because they stuck together fought tooth and nail, weren't "brain washed" by the company and didnt roll over easily!

Get real the cost of living is rising all the time, get a decent pay rise and enjoy it.

My company voted to loose their loyalty bonus because they were stupid enough to roll over and be nice!! All the newbies into the union thought they were doing the company a favour and didnt want any trouble....thanks for that and our pay cut!!

Whats bad about wanting more money???....no i started on a low wage ill just keep it that way DUH!!!!!

I would just like to clarify that I am neither "immature" nor "brain washed" as a previous poster has claimed

To consider someone immature because they do not agree with you is, well for want of a better word - immature. I have not been brain washed I am simply stating that for me, I would rather have more time off and a lower salary. Virgin is a business that is out to make money, we can not expect to have 2 days rostered off after every trip if we are demanding higher salaries - that is certainly well above the CAA Cap 371 requirements. My concern is that by demanding higher salaries the company will start to erode some of our "lifestyle agreements" that are currently in place.

With regards to having consideration for my colleagues who commute - guess what ... I commute !!! However, when I was offered the position with Virgin I was told that the job was based at LGW/LHR and therefore I can not expect the company to cover my costs for travelling, accom during SEP etc. It is my choice to live where I do and the company should not be expected to take this into consideration. They could very easily turn round, like many companies do, and state in the contract that you must live within 1hr 45 mins of the airport.

Okay, I've made my point. Probably better not look at this thread again so I don't get embroiled in a heated debate

;)

I used to work for Virgin. Given, I knew full well what the money was like when I joined but maybe I was a lil naieve. I just thought thats what all airlines paid. In fact I thought that Virgin, with SRB as a boss probably paid the best of all! I got such a shock when I found out that cabin crew at other airlines were earning twice or three times what I was. But money isn't everything.

What sickened me most was the lack of recognition we got. We were constantly winning awards for best airline this and that, best cabin crew. SRB would make press statements about how he couldn't do it without the loyal support of his 'family' (ie. workers). The public had the perception that he was a fantastic boss, paid and treated his employees really well. All the same time, while SRB was climbing up the list of 'Forbes Richest Men' our conditions and pay were left languishing at the bottom of the pile. All the 'family' stuff was just for the cameras. He never gave anything back to his employees in terms of better pay or conditions.

The straw that broke the camels back was CC89. We were desperate to get a union in, any union. But SRB was TOTALLY against it. For obvious reasons. We had to fight tooth and nail to get the representation we wanted and without the law on our side, SRB would have kept the union out all together.

It seems all that fighting wasn't even worth it now though, if CC89 still dont have any strength in Virgin. A shame.

Virgincrew99 - that's the idea - advocate a strike and bring your Company completely to its knees! I'm sure your colleagues will be delighted when none of you have a job because you've crippled the Company financially.

Do you really think that by rejecting the pay offer the pot of money available magically increases?! If you want the pot of money to increase, you need to do something to bring more into the Company in the first place.

If the crew made more of an effort with duty free sales (and I know they don't), their commission would increase as would the Company coffers. Maybe then you'd have a better case for a larger % increase.

I worked for VAA for MANY years and my partner still does. The salary has always been reasonable in my opinion.

In terms of commuters being on a month standby – have you heard yourself!? THIS IS A BUSINESS – NOT SOMETHING RUN FOR THE CONVENIENCE OF CREW WHO CHOOSE TO LIVE MILES AWAY FROM THEIR PLACE OF WORK. Get a grip!!

You’re saying that you spend on $146 on travelling to and from work and on meals whilst in NY (or wherever else)! Where do you live Mars?! You can eat very well in NY (and healthily to boot) on next to nothing. I think it’s more likely you bring home the $146 and spend $30.

It’s interesting to see that you are only capable of dismissing and belittling people who don’t agree with your viewpoint and have the nerve to call them immature – now that’s rich!

People working for other airlines would kill to have the kind of concessions you have at VAA. £66 for a staff ticket to the states is cheap as chips – with a space available upgrade to either premium or upper thrown in. You can’t afford to use you concessions you say? A quarter of your pay??! Talk about dramatise.

Morale – I have never heard crew in ANY airline say that morale is good. Morale is as much the responsibility of the individual as anyone else. Stop moaning, do something constructive and maybe, just maybe, you’ll feel better. How about getting involved with your union as a rep and see if you can help make a difference – or is this a bit too much effort?

Ultimately you have a choice. If Virgin is not the Company for you, for whatever reason, do your colleagues a favour and leave. Everyone will be happier as a result I am sure, if your moaning on here is anything to go by.

first of all monkeyhead thank you for your comments
all are taken into account like everyone else on this forums comments all are gratifully appreciated

your comments sound like they come from someone within virgin atlantic management as for your duty free idea that is complete rubbish our prices on board cannot and will never compete with the price of duty free in out destinations...if tourvest had a better variety of products not the tact available at the moment crew might be interested... oh and split the commission between 15 crew at 10% commission come on the most commission i have had is £35 since i started virgin atlantic so that is not even an option...

i do not wish to bring a company down (strike) i love working for virgin but would like to feel more valued and better paid in my job...funny how virign wants to improve the economy and premiun economy service by the end of the year bit has no money to improve the condtions for its workers

funny how they are in neogiations for a new designer for virgins new uniform how much is that costing and the reissue of a new uniform and they cant improve moral amongst its employees with a descent pay increase..

if anyone can honestly think virgin atlantic is a well paid airline please speak now...

personally i think our staff concessions are great ! sadly like many other due to the circumstances of our pay i cannot enjoy the privilages of our concessions to the full

as for our night stop stop pay down route that is another issue our night stop allowance is set on a medium priced menu in the hotels in which we stay all it takes is the company to move us to a third rate hotel and our allowance go down...

morale has been low in virgin since 9/11 and before that.. its a real shame that mangement dont want to listen.. how many times have myself and many of my colleagues seen cabin management asking how we feel about pay our actually get to know our names asking how we feel rather then negative monthly news letters....

leave virgin that would be giving up i dont consider myself a moan i listen to more crew moan about pay then i moan about it myself sadly i am one of the few that actually would like to voice my opinion..


and for the virgin altantic crew on this forum the few that have voiced their opinions for better working condtions better pay and better lifestyle the people who would like to see virgin into the future thank you



hopefully virgin will not be the next pan am or branniff


thank you

virgincrew99

Firstly if you read my post again, you'll see that when I talk about working I use the PAST tense. I am certainly not management at VAA. I am just able to see the bigger picture - something you do not appear to be able to do.

I take on board your point about the duty free, but this was just meant to illustrate that you need to fight your corner with some proper ammunition or bargaining tools. You are much more likely to achieve you aims if you offer a win - win situation.

With regards to the Company wanting to improve the service in economy & premium and being able to find the money to do this - duh!! Of course they do - if you want to stay as market leader & win new pax you need to have the best product otherwise you will become just another airline (a bit like some of your competitors) or even worse PanAm or Braniff as you say. If the Company does not invest in this area you simply will not survive.

As far as a new uniform is concerned, again this is an integral part of the Virgin brand and needs to be protected. The cost of re-issuing uniform is there regardless of whether it's a new uniform or not - as is the cost of manufacture, distribution etc... I would also not be surprised if cost savings are achieved through sourcing a new uniform.

As far as you and your colleagues not being able to afford to use your concessions - that'll explain why staff travel are constantly rushed off their feet (I have a very good friend working there!)

What your allowances are based on is not the point in this discussion. You said that you spend the vast majority of the allowance on meals and getting to work. I dispute this and believe that actually you bring the majority of it home. Where you live is your choice and the Company is not responsible for ensuring that downroute allowances cover the cost of your petrol / travel to work (a cost everyone has regardless of job).

Unfortunately the reality of having a cabin crew community of 3500 is that the managers will not necessarily know your name. Can you name all theirs? Why is this relevant? As long as the dealings you have with them are professional and they treat you with respect it doesn't really matter whether they know you name before you have to tell them - does it?

So, what about getting more involved with your union - after all if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem! Are you prepared to invest your time and energy positively or will you just continue moaning?

Clearly we are never going to agree on this issue and I respect your opinions, however as much as you might feel you DESERVE a pay rise, this will only be achieve if you approach the issue in a sensible and measured way. Does advocating strike action when the airline is facing massive additional costs through the rise in the cost of fuel sound sensible or measured?

Sorry Globe but you do sound a bit like a VS manager or somebody who has been brain washed over years of "no money in the pot" answers from VS. Not a personal attack, just the way VS life makes you think.

The bottom line is that the pay is very poor, not just as a starting pay, but all the way up to FSM (all in of 26k!!!!). Other departments have managed to get decent pay rewards, this may have included increased working hours etc, but they got more money. Look at the pilots as an example, even then VS used this in the wrong way (sorry guys the pay revue pot empty as the pilots took the lot, top CRM!!!).

I assume the majority don't moan due to the fact that they knew this was the case when they joined. Out of interest what are the figures for CC who only do a few years then leave & what are their reasons? Recruitment is important, but so is retaining good, experienced CC.

AS for strike action, nobody wants that, we all know from the recent BA incident how damaging that can be both financially & for the company image.

Interesting figures, if they are true!!!!!

http://www.v-flyer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7535

Hey guys! i'm crew for an airline in LGW (pretty obvious from the username!) and yes pay is not great in any airline however if you are not happy with the pay you could always leave! nobody is forcing you to stay - personally if i was that unhappy with my terms and conditions or couldn't afford to live on the wage then i would find a better paid job. Heard dust bin men get £11 an hour! fancy it ? NO YOU DON'T! what we lack in our pay cheques we make up for in lifestyle - one little sacrifice we all make.

I do apologize for my little rant but hate people complaining when they can quit if they're not happy!

BYCREWLGW

bycrewlgw -

Sorry...but why should we quit if we're not happy? What a pathetic bunch we would be if we didn't try to make our working conditions better for ourselves and our colleages! Yes I knew what the package was when I joined but it doesn't mean I can't try to work with my union to make it better.

I feel nothing but pity for those individuals who would rather roll over and accept any problems or challenges that come their way. Whether in life or in the workplace, we have to fight to make our lives that little bit better.

virgin crew pay ballott have you had enough
 

Hi there i just have something i would like to say to people who think we should just lump it or leave because other people would like our job, its a great lifestyle etc.. While i agree with some of it and i think its great to think positively and look at the brighter side, i think i speak for most of us when i say all we want is to be treated fairly.
Its wrong for a company to say that we are lucky to be here, plenty of other people want our job so much so they will pay us a low salary for the privilege. The company will eventually suffer for this though im sure as an influx of new inexperienced crew and the dissaperance of loyal crew will gradually affect customer service, as im sure we have all seen.
Now my real beef with virgin is how do they justify paying £26,000 per annum to service trainers when they pay an Flight service manager who is in charge of up to 18 crew and 380 pax on each flight £4,000 less? Service trainers dont work weekends, bank holidays, nights, christmas or new year, we as crew work all of these. As a junior or senior our salary is less than HALF of a service trainers salary and we are the ones out there in the job role. I am not saying i have a problem with trainers being payed more than a senior or junior but i have a problem with them being paid £14,000 - £16,000 more than us per annum. So next time they say there is no money in the company but they do value cabin crew, i think we should remember that there are job roles in this company which virgin seem to think are more deserving of better pay. i wouldnt normally agree with crippling a company by striking but it may be the only way to make them see it will be hard to run an airline without crew therefore we are important.

I thought it was the Captain who is in charge of the crew & pax? Captain then delegates the service to the "Flight service Manager"

:hmm:
Yes....I think we are all aware that the Commander is at the top of the food chain and carries overall responsibility for the aircraft, it's crew and passengers, but thank you for pointing that one out!

I hate to go back to "that old chestnut" but in comparison to other airlines such as Emirates or British Airways, our FSM's are paid appallingly. Yes, the Captain is in charge of the cabin but the FSM is ultimately the one that will make 95% of the decisions regarding pax and crew. The wages should reflect this responsibility, unfortunately they do not!

I didn't think we needed to make that any clearer!

Overstress there is no need to overstress! No one is questioning the authority of the a/c commander...

Anyway back to the real issue here, what amazes alot of crew online is that "blah blah blah there is not enough money, in current climate after fuel prices and london terrorist attacks we are less likely to give you a pay increase, just because you voted no to the last one you are not guarenteed to get a better deal" yet there is still money for a uniform redesign (is this really necessary? was only redesigned a few years ago!), there is money to paint the side of an aircraft with a lady with a huge pair of boobs to celebrate the 21st birthday, there is money to send out little canvases to god knows how many staff to do a little painting on, the list goes on.........

Not in any way denying the requisite for advertising etc, but where does one draw the line between creating public awareness and giving your cabin crew a fair pay deal? As has been already mentioned, everyone knew the pay when they signed up, however as has also been mentioned the cost of living has gone up, the cost of fuel has gone up, everything has gone up in price but cabin crew pay has not gone up in relativity...

The majority of us love what we do (god knows I do) however we also love to be able to afford to eat, drive our car, be able to pay our bills, and preferably not live month to month as most of us seem to!

:hmm: No my point was a bit more subtle, KT, you have perhaps answered it by stating that compared to BA, Emirates etc, VS FSM's are underpaid. I was countering sukigirl's argument - as the Capt has the ultimate responsibility, then the FSM cannot claim it as well, surely?

Unfortunately the reality is that BA CSD's are paid way over the odds (for distributing Visa forms and operating the IFE), streets ahead of everyone else, and that distorts the market.

In the interests of a fair and amicable discussion, can the mods please either edit or delete Overstress' last post, or at least this portion:

Because if Overstress really believes that is all FSM's do on a flight, (even though his/her profile states that they work on 'a rather large boeing variant' and thus I would presume has been flying for a very long long time and should know better) then its probably best to for him/her to not partake in this discussion.

Sinala
I think this is aimed at some of the BA CSDs rather than VS FSMs. There is also a suggestion of light hearted banter or a case of "little man syndrome" to his comments. Anyway Overstress how often does a Captain deal with pax problems, rather difficult when locked in the flight deck. Also seen on many occasion the way the Captain can't decide on anything once off the aircraft as regard to crew issues, instead leaving it up to the FSM.

Lets not take away the experience and knowledge of the cabin crew, especially when dealing with difficult or dangerous situations. You are, after all members of a crew, that means working together not bitching about who is in charge.

A couple of years ago the VS pilots had a good pay reward, subsequently the cabin crew got next to nothing, may be it's the cabin crews turn for a bite of the cherry.

I dont mean to be rude overstress but i dont think you have a clear understanding of the role of the FSM.

It may be that it is different in your airline but our FSMs have a lot of responsibility that the captain doesnt get involved in. such as dealing with aggressive pax, medical emergency, on board fire etc.. if there are only 2 flight deck on board which there often is then one pilot can not come out of the flight deck to get involved so this is why we have FSMs. They are also held accountable for everything from procedures being dealt with right to a crew member not ensuring that they have 2 I/ESBs at there door station when the FSM has to many other duties to take care of at the end of the flight than to walk around to inspect 12 door stations etc.. I have spoken to many FSMs who have faced disciplinary action or been hauled into the office about all these things, they can even be demoted or Taking to court if a pax takes legal action. They are also held accountable for the crews wellbeing and behaviour down route. They need to be given far more credit for what they do. And this is not coming from an FSM, I am a mere senior crew member with not much responsibility.