BA Cabin Crew Costs
 

Just an open question, with no hidden agenda.......but why are BA's Cabin Crew paid so well when compared with comparable UK carriers?

Have a look at a table produced by the CAA

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airline...rseas_2003.pdf

The top right hand block contains the costs..........BA Cabin Crew are paid, on average, 11 grand more than Virgin.

Anyone no why, or for how much longer?

When I was younger, I was told the 3 rules of life....

NEVER DISCUSS POLITICS, RELIGION and MONEY....

(ie don`t discuss what YOU earn or ask what OTHERS earn coz you will NEVER like the answer! :{ )

And being a cabin crew type question why is it NOT in the cabin crew forum?

It's probably in this section 'cos it affects BA pilots. While the cc gorge on the money cake, they are putting our jobs on the line.

How much longer will it go on for... hopefully WW will put an end to it. Looks like BA cc are about to have some changes imposed on them. 'bout time.

Suggestion

Could a BA dirty linen laundry forum please be opened, for the exclusive use of BA pilots and cabin crew? Reding Pprune has become a rather tedious affair for those among us who are neither employed by BA, nor interested in BA staff mud-wrestling :* .

To all the BA mud-wrestlers: Ever thought of the message getting across to anyone who reads this? Tarnishing your employer's (!)image and all that? And on this particular forum (R&N)? If you washed your dirty linen in the T1 departure lounge, over the tannoy, it would hardly be less public. I understand that some of you are deeply concerned about the goings-on at BA - but why don't you address these issues in a somewhat more private way?

[edited for spelling]

Tom,

I thank you.

I am BA staff and find the internal jealousies and petty wrangling pathetic -grow up people.

We are supposed to be one company, one team NOT arch enemies.

I actually dispair at the thought of flying with some of you.

Excellent post, tom de luxe.

More nonsense about how cabin crew are bankrupting the Company and how flight crew will put on their capes and save the day.

Time for a CX FO to ask why mainline FOs make so much more money than they do...

Driver, hotel first, thank you !

And, how novel, the link fails to work (at least it did at 10:33z).

The link goes directly to a pdf file which I don't think it's possible to link to directly as it needs to be downloaded. Click on this linkcaa and then select the second link down to download the pdf file.

Your looking for this
Table 1 14 Airline Personnel Cost UK and Overseas 2003.pdf, 29kb, .pdf

I hope you all are prepared for willy walshs change of accomodation for you on over nights....his preferred option is airport hotels and I am not joking. He tried it in aer lingus but it never materialised for other reasons.

Thanks tom , i am c/c for BA and am getting sick and tired of reading about whats going on in BA on this web site , people on here talk about us more than we do at BA ,i think with this day and age you should all be concerned with your own airlines and let BA staff worry about our own .

While Willie Walsh became known as the 'slasher' at Aer Lingus I think he will have a much harder time at BA. I mean for starts, read a BA mainline Cabin Crew Contract. It clearly states that our Trade Union negotiated Collective Agreements (eg. CAT turnarounds/destination payments etc) form part of our contract. In other words, the only way they will ever be changed is with it's union members (ie US!) agreeance.

Lets look at the Aer Lingus situation. It was widely tipped to go belly up like Sabena or Swissair after Sept 11. The crew HAD to agree to whatever concessions Willie wanted or none of them would have had a job to come into the following week. It was not 'hard bargaining' with the unions. It was literally 'sink or swim'.

Now take a look at BA. We are shortly to announce profits of £525 million for the year. We will have the title of 'world most profitable airline'. Do you REALLY think that BASSA or even CC89 for that matter will be listening to Willie Walshes scare tactics? We have been told for years now about how we have to become cheaper and more efficient or in two years we will be bankrupt or we won't have jobs etc etc. Then the company comes out with an announcement of £525 million profit and proclaims itself numero uno in the profitability league!

Admittedly our debt is still high but it is still very small compared to many other airlines.

I don't get on the crew transport and ask the F.O or Captain what they earn or how many days off they have that month or how much work is in their roster. That is their business. At the end of the day, the pilots union accepted your pay deal. If the pilots are now un-happy with it let your union know, don't make us feel guilty for not going down the same road and accepting a crappy deal.

I am cabin crew myself and admit that there are many areas that can be made more efficient and costs could be cut. But i'm sorry. If BA wants me to become more efficient, work harder, longer etc etc I want more money. Plain as. Simple.

Don't forget that cc helped the Company out by agreeing to 'a temporary reduction' in crewing levels post 9/11, the temporary part of which the Company have now conveniently forgotten about.

On a 747, you therefore do 1/16th more work and on a 777 1/13th.

Simply put:

The Company have saved between 6.25 and 7.69 % on longhaul cc labour costs already, without you having to work even longer, harder, or more efficiently.

Next time flight crew have a whinge, ask them when they last helped the Company out in this way...

:}

Perhaps they'll point out the 50% increase in annual flying hours per man on short haul over the last 4 years. Or the significant percentage of long haul pilots working to the legal maximum. Or the daily extension of industrial limits to scheme to keep the operation going. Or the absence of flight cancellations due to shortage of flight crew compared to cabin crew. Incidentally, what has happened to the total number of pax on bored since all the aircraft were dusked. It wouldn't be the case that the total number has decreased by a greater proportion than the number of crew would it?

Carnage I agree with you whole heartedly. The pilots made a lot of concessions in terms of working practices.

However, in return most pilots received a hefty increase in their basic pay, something that has never been offered to the cabin crew community as a carrot to increase efficiency. Perhaps if Willie thinks about that one...??....

Also, can you honestly say you are happy with the deal BALPA carved out for you and the other pilots? I don't know what fleet you are on but the pilots I worked with when I was on short-haul (especially the Airbus) seemed to think their pay deal was 'rushed' and that they had been 'shafted'. Most of the 777 fleet pilots on long-haul echo this.

To be honest, if my union signed up to the same deal as yours did, and then I was working much harder in return for no more money (cabin crew are being offered no more in their basic) and then we announced profits of £525million i'd be angry.

I want to see BA be a successful airline, but I don't come to the work just for the fun of it or to be a martyr in the announcement of yet even more 'making history profits'.

TIGER

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this the Cabin Crew Forum we are in now???

Its been moved to the cabin crew forum NOW!

It was in the pilots forum and was a new topic added to the pilots forum after the BA cabin crew strike topic was moved to the cabin crew section.

Aaahh, Carnage Matey,

Working to your maximum isn't exactly an 'extra' you've thrown in, now is it ?

Choosing to work to Scheme rather than Industrial isn't a luxury cabin crew have, even if they should wish to do so. It is expressly forbidden by the Company - and no one else.

'CC shortage', the reason conveniently and often quoted to pzzzz off cc, and pax with cc, means exactly that; we ain't got enough of them. Ask yourself why last night's 59 and 247 were delayed overnight.

Strangely, in BA speak it also means a shortage of aircraft, as on the NBO where a shortage of 767s merited a 'cc shortage' entrance in DCS. How convenient.

As for the crew complements and dusked aircraft, you may be interested to learn that the crew member taken off wasn't taken from the dusked cabins, cause that's where the Company make the majority of the dosh and they wouldn't dream of upsetting our premium pax even more... However, just to make sure you sleep tonight, there are plans to remove a senior crew member from the upper deck, which should save the Company a bundle.

Innit great to see the Company have us all exactly where they want us ?

See you on the shuttle ! :ok:

Well that depends which way you look at it. Our contract allows us to work the maximum legal flying hours as long as the company can roster the hours reasonably efficiently. Your contract is based on working hours, not flying hours. Our contract requires us to work to certain minimum turnaround times, which we regularly ignore in order to achieve the unrealistic schedules BA plan to keep us up to maximum hours. Call that goodwill or stupidity if you prefer, but it does make the difference between the shorthaul operation succeeding or falling apart on the day. Your contract also requires you to have minimum turnaround times. However you never reduce below these as BASSA won't allow it, hence flights get delayed or cancelled on a daily basis. So you see, pilots actually give rather a lot to the company on a daily basis, including reducing rest downroute after a delay (when the cabin crew demand their 18 hours and position home instead). Just because it doesn't get trumpeted on a union newsletter by security doesn't mean it isn't happening. BA gets a lot of flying out of us per duty hour. BA gets far less flying out of you per duty hour. I do 50% more sectors per month on shorthaul than a typical EF cabin crew roster. I think we give the company plenty. And before you say it, no I didnt get a massive pay rise to accompany that increase in workload.

Carnage Matey,

I wasn't going to say that ! Honest ! :D

In fact, I wouldn't dispute the fact that you're working your nuts off on shorthaul for one second.

I have the pleasure of seeing it in operation at least twice a week.

I frowned when the Company reduced A319 turnrounds to 35 minutes and now do so again when I hear that this is to become the norm for all shorthaul aircraft.

As I'm not on shorthaul, I wouldn't know or dare comment on reducing minimum turnround times. What did surprise me though, is that the NSP are about to suggest that an extra 20 minutes are to be added to longhaul duty days away from base, as they have come to realise that we don't exactly start our day only an hour before take off. Free money ? Surely not...

:=

Keeperboy, I totall agreewith you. It's about time people realised (including pilots) that we have faught hard and dry for our agreements and that is why people don't leave (this has surely saves BA on training costs in the past!!!). We are not about to give them up lightly. I've had it up to here with pilots telling me we can have an hourly rate IMPOSED on us and we will have to get used to it. You CHOSE to accept your pay deal and we have rejected ours. Our unions have researched into this and we would lose out. Do you really think we are going to accept a deal that leaves us worse off at the end of the month? Exactly!!! Now please, anybody who has any further rubbish to say about how much we get paid, keep it to yourself. We are not interested. You get paid your salary and we will get paid ours.

I don't mean to come accross angry but this topic continuously appears on this forum. More often that not, it's negative towards BA crew and our salary. Not all mind you but most. We all do the same job at the end of the day. Can't we be happy for each other. I don't moan about my job as I consider myself to be very luck working for BA. Friends of mine feel the same at their airlines. We don't bitch about each other's slalry and conditions. We are happy for one another. Lets try and make this a positive post.

With regards Polly:ok: :*

Quidnunc,

You are as nasty to your OWN cabin crew on here as you are on Avcom.Why must you try to show us in a bad light on such a public forum.

I cannot understand why you openly hate us so much.We like you have taken hits to make OUR company profitable and hopefully more successful in the future.

You do not do too much for CRM do you?!!.

Maybe you would like to tell the general public how much you get paid 'on draft'!!,or maybe you don't want to tarnish your higher than high image.;) .

One question,were you dumped by a stewardess by any chance?.:O

Doors2Automatic

Once again , another pathetic BA cabin crew bashing exercise :zzz:

Give it a break - most - in fact 65% of BA cabin crew are on the new contract, that means they start on £8,500 and are capped at £13,000 for the rest of their career .

Does that level of salary sound appealing to you - or is it worth getting so het up about - i don't think so.

Yes,there are a few older crew around who worked their way up the ranks or payscales - we've all signed a contract at some point in our lives. :rolleyes:
In case you are unaware ,BA has been around for a very long time.
We were once offered a 'career' and so we've worked damned hard to make it what it is today.
84% customers v satisfied is not a bad rating,and is consistent.

I think you'll find that 90% of all the porsches,bmw's and jaguars that litter the crew car park are owned by pilots... the battered old fiestas and mondeos belong to the cabin crew...

Why don't you just give it up , or if you really want to justify your point , write down here what a B744 captains final salary is ,and we can all make an informed decision...

This continual bashing on a 'professionals' website is tiresome and disturbing to say the least.


In fact there is a current thread on the BASSA website about how much hate is directed towards BA cabin crew on PPrune, and how disconcerting/alarming we collectively find it ........

Ironically ,nothing negative has been written about pilots on the BASSA site for months ,and months - so really , where do we all stand when it comes to digninfied remarks etc... there is a whole lot of very bad feeling on here....

Some good points there Anti-ice but what we should remember is that there are only a very few very nasty,bitter people who want to dish out the dirt.

99% of both pilots and cabin crew are fair and sensible people who are working hard to make BA a success in the future.

I am in the lucky position of being on the old contract but those on the new contract are finding it very difficult to live near Heathrow and many are leaving for careers that pay the bills.

Maybe that combined with stupid one day courses (90 crew per day!!!)are the reason for crew shortages and NOT sickness which for the good of all is lower now that for a long time.

It has also been pointed out previously that with the reduction in crew levels on ALL aircraft BA cabin crew have already saved around 8% in crewing costs.

I am not daft enough to think that's the end of it,we must reduce costs again but BA be aware the passengers will only put up with so much,there is very good competition out there!!.


Doors2Automatic.

:8 hello all, am new to this forum. Am cc for BA and came onto this forum to escape the small minded, sanctimonious flight crew posting over at BA...........................seems I can't even get away here.
As for Mr Walsh, well let's sit back and give the boy a chance. I recall that RE had a reputation as a hard man when he came to BA, he has done a fantastic job and it's a shame to see him go.
If Mr Walsh tries the hard man bully boy tactics that he used at EI, I suggest that he will rapidly go the way of Mr Ayling

I am BA cc too and I am aware i do not work as hard anymore as on shorthaul, but longhaul is taking it out on your too and being on the new contract does not help always.

BA got an enormus turnover at the moment 'cause of the new entrants salary. I believe 80 NE leave every month and there are not enough to take their place!

Also my "better" half is one of our SFOs and i do have a good "internal" view of things from "the other" side. It has been said before...99% of both communities pulling on the same side of the string and that makes it worth working for BA!

Stop shouting at each other! It has been tried before on the internal forum! Only together it will work in the end. You may fly the metal tube without us but ....

So, lets be nice to each other and work with and not against each other :p

Exactly guyz ' n galz - i would hope that this hatred is only stirred up by a few, as by and large , the vast majority of cabin crew and flight crew i work with every day are great.

It's very disturbing to see those on here that hol dsuch deep resentment and make up stories/salaries which are blatantly untrue.

It would be interesting to know why they feel like this , as the picture they paint and what really goes on at BA are worlds apart........