BA cabin crew to strike
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4468, I think the point being made was that it is Unite's standard practice to considerably understate the salaries of its members in order to attempt to gain public sympathy.
I think most pilots accepted that over a decade ago! The entire reason why BA mixed fleet exists is because BASSA didn't accept that ever. They were just saying no right up until the end, which forced BA to completely halt recruitment onto the old terms and conditions; setting up mixed fleet with the step change to market rate they'd been attempting to achieve gradually for well over a decade.
Why shouldn't we just accept pilot's pay going the same way?
4468 I didn't say it was wrong I was, in fact, a recipient of those salaries. The point I was making was explained by GSA in his post it's Unite's standard gambit tell everyone that BA crew are living in almost Dickensian poverty, sleeping in their cars and living on tins of cold baked beans.
In reality BA crew are well rewarded. However from my knowledge of the Mixed Fleet agreements they work hard for it and improvements to their T&C's would be preferable to a small,increase in BA's 2% pay offer.
In reality BA crew are well rewarded. However from my knowledge of the Mixed Fleet agreements they work hard for it and improvements to their T&C's would be preferable to a small,increase in BA's 2% pay offer.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 737
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
vctenderness
I'm sure you will educate me if I've misremembered, but I don't recall CSD's salaries being mentioned by Unite, during the 2010 strikes. Though I imagine BA may well have referred to them??
In any event, there are precious few parallels between that disagreement and this. Those personnel and these.
Standard practice for Unite - plead poverty! I remember the same tosh coming out of them during the 2010 dispute
In any event, there are precious few parallels between that disagreement and this. Those personnel and these.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: EU
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lots of support being shown around LHR for the strikers from other staff and passengers, I would say BA's claims of "All planned flights will be operating as normal" are a little far fetched!
I imagine it takes quite a bit of courage to take part in a strike with this much publicity, but when you have very little to lose it probably makes the decision easier. I hear that the strike pay of £60/day the union are paying them will probably put more money in their pockets even after losing 2 days pay for stirking! (surley this can't be true?)
I imagine it takes quite a bit of courage to take part in a strike with this much publicity, but when you have very little to lose it probably makes the decision easier. I hear that the strike pay of £60/day the union are paying them will probably put more money in their pockets even after losing 2 days pay for stirking! (surley this can't be true?)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SALISBURY
Age: 76
Posts: 706
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just like the last strikes, the cc are like WW1 canon fodder being used by Unite's Red Len as a weapon against both UK industry & the government. As sure as eggs is eggs the cc will be the only losers; after all they knew what they were signing when they were recruited. 
It's such a shame because they are a smashing bunch of girls & guys who carry out their duties perfectly & in the unlikely event of an emergency will be essential to their pax' chances of survival.
Our flight to CPT next month is a mixed fleet route & as always I hope to be able to thank the cc for a pleasant, trouble free journey.
It's such a shame because they are a smashing bunch of girls & guys who carry out their duties perfectly & in the unlikely event of an emergency will be essential to their pax' chances of survival.
Our flight to CPT next month is a mixed fleet route & as always I hope to be able to thank the cc for a pleasant, trouble free journey.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: EU
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, they knew what they were signing up for, but now most of them have decided to show they have the backbone to stand up and ask for a totally justified improvment to these paltry terms and conditions. And It would appear they have the support of most BA and other airline staff groups and their own passengers! The voices against this particular dispute seem to be very few and far between.
Given the huge disparity of pay between the new and old contracts, this group of staff were always going to one day get organised and cause BA a problem. This is a dispute entirley created by greedy BA management, and I would argue it will be all of BA that suffers from the negative impact and not only the CC, who sadly, actually have very little to lose.
Given the huge disparity of pay between the new and old contracts, this group of staff were always going to one day get organised and cause BA a problem. This is a dispute entirley created by greedy BA management, and I would argue it will be all of BA that suffers from the negative impact and not only the CC, who sadly, actually have very little to lose.
Lots of support being shown around LHR for the strikers from other staff and passengers, I would say BA's claims of "All planned flights will be operating as normal" are a little far fetched!
Join Date: Jun 1996
Location: Check with Ops
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a dispute entirley created by greedy BA management
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have just seen from yesterdays Travelmole website that BA have offered an Independent Audit showing that ALL MF Cabin crew earned more than 21K in the last 12 months!
Perhaps the striking MF members should attach their pay slips to their placards to refute this - me thinks that BA statement is far more accurate than Unites!
Perhaps the striking MF members should attach their pay slips to their placards to refute this - me thinks that BA statement is far more accurate than Unites!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SALISBURY
Age: 76
Posts: 706
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, they knew what they were signing up for, but now most of them have decided to show they have the backbone to stand up and ask for a totally justified improvment to these paltry terms and conditions. And It would appear they have the support of most BA and other airline staff groups and their own passengers! The voices against this particular dispute seem to be very few and far between.
Given the huge disparity of pay between the new and old contracts, this group of staff were always going to one day get organised and cause BA a problem. This is a dispute entirley created by greedy BA management, and I would argue it will be all of BA that suffers from the negative impact and not only the CC, who sadly, actually have very little to lose.
Given the huge disparity of pay between the new and old contracts, this group of staff were always going to one day get organised and cause BA a problem. This is a dispute entirley created by greedy BA management, and I would argue it will be all of BA that suffers from the negative impact and not only the CC, who sadly, actually have very little to lose.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SALISBURY
Age: 76
Posts: 706
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have just seen from yesterdays Travelmole website that BA have offered an Independent Audit showing that ALL MF Cabin crew earned more than 21K in the last 12 months!
Perhaps the striking MF members should attach their pay slips to their placards to refute this - me thinks that BA statement is far more accurate than Unites!
Perhaps the striking MF members should attach their pay slips to their placards to refute this - me thinks that BA statement is far more accurate than Unites!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SALISBURY
Age: 76
Posts: 706
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No this dispute is a result of the lower pay of MF crew brought into being as a direct answer to BASSA's intransigence and thinking that the cabin crew, at the time, were somehow immune from producing the same cost reductions as the rest of the company. BASSA's primaddona attitude is why there exists an A and B scale and is not because of the standard 'lefty' shout of 'greedy management' or 'fat cats'. I'm no management lover but blame needs to be placed at the correct door and, in this case, BASSA is the culprit.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: EU
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is worth noting that when a Cabin Crew member, Flight Crew member or any other individual that travels for purposes of employment and receives meal allowances for the time they are away at their employers behest, goes to a bank for a mortgage, the bank will exclude any down route meal allowances from their gross salary calculation, and this typically (and correctly) means they have to reduce their declared salary by 6-8K per annum. Some airlines (in agreement with HMRC) will not even show these allowances on a payslip as it is agreed by all parties (unions, employers and HMRC) that meal allowances are not part of your salary as it is spent down route on meals etc.
So BA's claim that all MF crew received over £21K in the last year is a little disingenuous. New entrant basic salary is around £13K. They “might” qualify for a small quarterly bonus totalling another £1K. They do the job because they like it and are generally very good at it. The BA brand is attractive to customers and employees alike and they all want it protected and enhanced. You cannot denounce a group of people for wanting to improve things or simply just asking for a fair days pay, for a fair days work. Currently BA are just not paying this staff group fairly. I haven't even looked at their rostering practices yet, but I hear they are not very fair either!
I think this dispute, as always, will turn into a battle of words and wills, just like the last one. And yes, perhaps BASSA did not cover themselves in glory back then, but but neither did BA. I would also argue that BA never ever play with a straight bat, and I would believe unite over BA any day! The claims by BA that all planned flights were flown, no CSM was on strike, 70% of MF crew turned up for work and MF crew all take home over £21K, can ALL BE PROVED FALSE with a little digging. I do wonder why unite are not (to my knowledge) highlighting these untruths to the media, but perhaps they are just concentrating on making sure their members are aware of the facts and not worrying to much about public opinion, as strikers are almost always seen as wrong in the eye of the great British public.
The big question is; how long before we see Mixed Fleet Unite and BASSA "really" working together. And I don't mean onboard the aircraft.
So BA's claim that all MF crew received over £21K in the last year is a little disingenuous. New entrant basic salary is around £13K. They “might” qualify for a small quarterly bonus totalling another £1K. They do the job because they like it and are generally very good at it. The BA brand is attractive to customers and employees alike and they all want it protected and enhanced. You cannot denounce a group of people for wanting to improve things or simply just asking for a fair days pay, for a fair days work. Currently BA are just not paying this staff group fairly. I haven't even looked at their rostering practices yet, but I hear they are not very fair either!
I think this dispute, as always, will turn into a battle of words and wills, just like the last one. And yes, perhaps BASSA did not cover themselves in glory back then, but but neither did BA. I would also argue that BA never ever play with a straight bat, and I would believe unite over BA any day! The claims by BA that all planned flights were flown, no CSM was on strike, 70% of MF crew turned up for work and MF crew all take home over £21K, can ALL BE PROVED FALSE with a little digging. I do wonder why unite are not (to my knowledge) highlighting these untruths to the media, but perhaps they are just concentrating on making sure their members are aware of the facts and not worrying to much about public opinion, as strikers are almost always seen as wrong in the eye of the great British public.
The big question is; how long before we see Mixed Fleet Unite and BASSA "really" working together. And I don't mean onboard the aircraft.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm....sounds like we have 'son (or daughter) of Holley' with us.
I feel for the boys and girls of MF, but, imho, they are being led up the garden path (once again) by Unite for Unite's and the TUC's political struggles against the Tory government - just look at the strikes going on right now - they are all being coordinated imo.
The boys and girls of MF are inexperienced in the ways of IA and have no understanding of Cruz/Walsh and their mentality. The second set of strike days are most likely going to fizzle out and Cruz will likely look to recoup the cost of the strike from MF, just like after Holley's last self-aggrandizement scheme.
In the meantime, MF will have lost staff travel for holidays and their quarterly bonus while the fat cats at Unite will feather their nests and gain kudos with the TUC for being able to deliver lambs to the slaughter for political gain.
I feel for the boys and girls of MF, but, imho, they are being led up the garden path (once again) by Unite for Unite's and the TUC's political struggles against the Tory government - just look at the strikes going on right now - they are all being coordinated imo.
The boys and girls of MF are inexperienced in the ways of IA and have no understanding of Cruz/Walsh and their mentality. The second set of strike days are most likely going to fizzle out and Cruz will likely look to recoup the cost of the strike from MF, just like after Holley's last self-aggrandizement scheme.
In the meantime, MF will have lost staff travel for holidays and their quarterly bonus while the fat cats at Unite will feather their nests and gain kudos with the TUC for being able to deliver lambs to the slaughter for political gain.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by virgin mary:
I disagree. As a very regular and loyal BA customer with two trips (one business, one leisure) booked during the 19-21st I am currently in the process of cancelling and rebooking with another operator. Along with the Southern Rail and Tube strike this week, the disruption the Unions have caused to fellow commuters over the past month or so in London has been unacceptable - at least I'm fortunate that there is competition on my routes from LHR. The BA brand is only attractive as long as the cost is acceptable and service is reliable and despite the Christmas disruption not happening, I made changes to travel plans then as well. Although I fully appreciate that my custom means almost nothing to BA and that should the flights operate, the seats I had booked will be occupied by someone who will have undoubtable paid more than I have, industrial action damages a brand and unlike the railways in the UK, air travel often provides alternative choices (as often reminded during the on board PA's). BA short haul out has already undergone some brand adjustments this month which are not in my favour and I question the wisdom of Unison electing to call action now, other than to contribute to the other industrial action mentioned thus generating additional publicity and adding to the impression of a union activity bringing transport infrastructure to it's knees at a time when the economy needs to strengthen in anticipation of invoking article 50.
I see one of the picket boards in EGLD's image quotes Richard Branson:
Can someone remind me what Cabin Crew at VS are making these days?
And It would appear they have the support of most BA and other airline staff groups and their own passengers!
I see one of the picket boards in EGLD's image quotes Richard Branson:
Clients do not come first. Employees come first. If you take care of your employees, they will take care of the clients
Last edited by Reverserbucket; 13th Jan 2017 at 13:18.
Opinions.
Aren't Opinions great? We can all have quite a lot, and normally they are free!!
I think that things have moved on since the BASSA strike. Firstly, the megalomaniacs who ran BASSA thought they also ran BA. They also thought that everyone owed them a living. That's why so many other Unite Branches voted to work on, cross picket lines, and be trained up to replace the CC, some of whom took a day or two's holiday.
In my opinion, this strike is very different. It is not lead by Unite, but by the staff. Further, when BA spoke during the last strike, I was inclined to believe them rather than BASSA and the Socialist Worker clowns that performed with them. Now, however, the culture in BA is very, very different. They appear to lie whenever it suits them. Lots of evidence over on the BAEC thread on another website. The whole BA customer service ethos has gone from many of their staff- taken from them by daft management. The last letter BA sent me was a lie. I no longer believe what they say to me or to the press unless it has completely independent verification. They know that no-one trusts them - that's why they know they need verification of their own numbers. However, when those "numbers" allegedly relating to income include stuff that you and I would call expenses, we all know it is no more than spin.
Aren't Opinions great? We can all have quite a lot, and normally they are free!!
I think that things have moved on since the BASSA strike. Firstly, the megalomaniacs who ran BASSA thought they also ran BA. They also thought that everyone owed them a living. That's why so many other Unite Branches voted to work on, cross picket lines, and be trained up to replace the CC, some of whom took a day or two's holiday.
In my opinion, this strike is very different. It is not lead by Unite, but by the staff. Further, when BA spoke during the last strike, I was inclined to believe them rather than BASSA and the Socialist Worker clowns that performed with them. Now, however, the culture in BA is very, very different. They appear to lie whenever it suits them. Lots of evidence over on the BAEC thread on another website. The whole BA customer service ethos has gone from many of their staff- taken from them by daft management. The last letter BA sent me was a lie. I no longer believe what they say to me or to the press unless it has completely independent verification. They know that no-one trusts them - that's why they know they need verification of their own numbers. However, when those "numbers" allegedly relating to income include stuff that you and I would call expenses, we all know it is no more than spin.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
However, when those "numbers" allegedly relating to income include stuff that you and I would call expenses, we all know it is no more than spin.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't really care who is right over the figures, what really counts is can the strike actually achieve anything. BA seemed to cope last time reasonably well. Yes, there were cancellations and sub charters, and yes, to achieve what they did BA had to go to some abnormal measures to achieve it, but they did. What does anyone think will be different about the next strike? Why will that succeed rather than make BA even more entrenched in their position? Why will the unions efforts be more successful in forcing BA's hand this time?
I support MF in their attempts to get better T&C's as the original promise was industry standard plus 10%, which they are nowhere near achieving. I'm just not convinced that they will achieve anything better than the inflation busting offer of 4.6% that they have on the table. Whatever they achieve will be the baseline minimum ask for ALL the other workgroups that exist within BA for their next pay round, so you cannot view this one dispute in isolation wrt cost.
BA will be factoring in the cost of the additional salary to ALL work groups that will inevitably follow any bigger settlement with MF. This additional cost will be BA's war chest to cover the extreme measures they need to put in place to beat this current strike.
Even with 2900 UNITE members who all strike, (an unlikely situation), given the c150000 cabin crew in BA, how truly effective can this strike really be?
It is good news though for EF and WW, as MF have just clearly demonstrated that having 3 distinct work groups as CC can effectively blunt any IA from a single group. Has anyone else wondered why the mutterings and rumours of the demise of EF have declined in parallel with the increasing severity of the MF dispute? Coincidence or a realisation from BA that perhaps EF and WW are valuable as a foil for MF?
I support MF in their attempts to get better T&C's as the original promise was industry standard plus 10%, which they are nowhere near achieving. I'm just not convinced that they will achieve anything better than the inflation busting offer of 4.6% that they have on the table. Whatever they achieve will be the baseline minimum ask for ALL the other workgroups that exist within BA for their next pay round, so you cannot view this one dispute in isolation wrt cost.
BA will be factoring in the cost of the additional salary to ALL work groups that will inevitably follow any bigger settlement with MF. This additional cost will be BA's war chest to cover the extreme measures they need to put in place to beat this current strike.
Even with 2900 UNITE members who all strike, (an unlikely situation), given the c150000 cabin crew in BA, how truly effective can this strike really be?
It is good news though for EF and WW, as MF have just clearly demonstrated that having 3 distinct work groups as CC can effectively blunt any IA from a single group. Has anyone else wondered why the mutterings and rumours of the demise of EF have declined in parallel with the increasing severity of the MF dispute? Coincidence or a realisation from BA that perhaps EF and WW are valuable as a foil for MF?
Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 15th Jan 2017 at 12:50.