BA cabin crew to strike
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MF earn more than £12k. That's the basic salary and then they are paid an hourly rate for the duration of their trip and receive bonuses for attendance etc.
Soundings are that a lot of the union concerns are more to do with the rostering and rest periods rather than pay itself.
It seems that calling a strike on Christmas Day and Boxing Day is more to do with putting PR pressure on BA rather than causing disruption. A very reduced schedule operates on Christmas Day in any event and BA seem pretty confident they can cover most of the schedule, including all long-haul flights.
Soundings are that a lot of the union concerns are more to do with the rostering and rest periods rather than pay itself.
It seems that calling a strike on Christmas Day and Boxing Day is more to do with putting PR pressure on BA rather than causing disruption. A very reduced schedule operates on Christmas Day in any event and BA seem pretty confident they can cover most of the schedule, including all long-haul flights.
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A very reduced schedule operates on Christmas Day in any event and BA seem pretty confident they can cover most of the schedule, including all long-haul flights.
Bear in mind the recent 'Which' survey in which BA are slipping down the customer satisfaction tables. That's BEFORE any industrial unrest!
It might be reasonable to ponder why????? Or who is responsible??
I imagine T&Cs on mixed fleet, might be a reflection of something much more significant for this particular company??
Last edited by 4468; 17th Dec 2016 at 21:25.
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Yep, I may well be one of the old 'grumps' who did the job during the best of times, but...
We were payed very well but we stayed and made a career of it. We knew the job inside out, we were fully conversant of the menu, the wine etc. in F and J. We called PAX by their titles and had great conversations with them. In those days we were sent on wine and cookery courses in order to improve the service. We went on paid language courses, I learnt both French and German. All in order to improve service in our job. We were proud of our job and, I think, gave great service. Oh, and we also saved a few lives and delivered a few baby's too. I agree, BA is pretty poor these days, Quantas and Emirates are better, but I am not surprised. Treat you staff badly and it's no surprise they are poor, it's not a career anymore it's a job to do for a year or two then leave when you are burnt out. That is the point I am trying to make. Treat your staff with respect, pay them a good wage and give them a career structure. Then, and only then, will you get CC doing a great job and bringing repeat business.
And one last point, it's not like other jobs as some are trying to point out. It's physically exhausting. You are working at altitude for hours on end, the relentless jet lag plays havoc with your body. You are away so much you have little private life, you are a barman, waiter, security guard, nurse, travel agent, nursemaid, tour guide, handyman,, translator etc. All rolled up into one. Most folk get to go home every night to their families and friends. They don't. They work longer hours than most, at constant risk of disruption and to do that whilst treated poorly? I don't think so
We were payed very well but we stayed and made a career of it. We knew the job inside out, we were fully conversant of the menu, the wine etc. in F and J. We called PAX by their titles and had great conversations with them. In those days we were sent on wine and cookery courses in order to improve the service. We went on paid language courses, I learnt both French and German. All in order to improve service in our job. We were proud of our job and, I think, gave great service. Oh, and we also saved a few lives and delivered a few baby's too. I agree, BA is pretty poor these days, Quantas and Emirates are better, but I am not surprised. Treat you staff badly and it's no surprise they are poor, it's not a career anymore it's a job to do for a year or two then leave when you are burnt out. That is the point I am trying to make. Treat your staff with respect, pay them a good wage and give them a career structure. Then, and only then, will you get CC doing a great job and bringing repeat business.
And one last point, it's not like other jobs as some are trying to point out. It's physically exhausting. You are working at altitude for hours on end, the relentless jet lag plays havoc with your body. You are away so much you have little private life, you are a barman, waiter, security guard, nurse, travel agent, nursemaid, tour guide, handyman,, translator etc. All rolled up into one. Most folk get to go home every night to their families and friends. They don't. They work longer hours than most, at constant risk of disruption and to do that whilst treated poorly? I don't think so
Last edited by expurser; 17th Dec 2016 at 12:46. Reason: Last thoughts
I am wondering about the £3 per hour flight pay. This is not something I am familiar with but it was being discussed before I hung my wings up.
It was supposed to be for the entire itinary not just the flying hours. So on a 3 day nightstop it would be from check in to debrief.
Can anyone confirm this?
It was supposed to be for the entire itinary not just the flying hours. So on a 3 day nightstop it would be from check in to debrief.
Can anyone confirm this?
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Confirmed.
MF are more expensive to send on some routes, mostly India.
Their T&Cs are poor. Santiago from LHR, night stop then back with 2 days off. Beyond tiring.
'They knew what they were getting into when they applied for the job.' Perhaps like everything else these days it was all fluff and no substance. Much like BA flights, the reality rarely matches the promise.
MF are more expensive to send on some routes, mostly India.
Their T&Cs are poor. Santiago from LHR, night stop then back with 2 days off. Beyond tiring.
'They knew what they were getting into when they applied for the job.' Perhaps like everything else these days it was all fluff and no substance. Much like BA flights, the reality rarely matches the promise.
Most carriers who pay flight pay use block times and not reporting times. So if you have a 2 hour delay for what ever reason with pax on board you don't get a penny for it, even though you might be selling scratch cards or whatever.
With BA short haul charging for food starting next month, will the crews be getting commission of those delectable M&S filled sandwiches?
With BA short haul charging for food starting next month, will the crews be getting commission of those delectable M&S filled sandwiches?
But to alarge degree it comes back in all these situations to a general feeling of unhappiness. And most of them have a point to some degree .I don't for example notice anyone on here saying why are VS pilots talking about striking after all planes fly themselves these days and therefore the job is very easy and doesnt deserve better pay and conditions and as for this fatigue bit well you try doing a ten hour day with 2 hours on the M25 at each end blah blah blah...
No the problem is that close on ten years of dishonesty and unethical and often useless managements (and the Union management are included in that) focussed only on increasing their salary , bonuses and stock options has gradually begun to catch up with UK Plc with far too many people earning inadequate salaries for any sort of life especially if you live near or commute to LHR. People have learned that in todays world you get paid not what you are worth but what you can screw out of employer-hence TFL drivers get big money because no tube no London. Also people in these age groups have seen city folk bring the country to its knees and yet still earn big bucks because in their case as has been demonstrated for the most part they lose our money not their own.
Its like the invisible Surrey and Sussex Tory MPs who never said a word about the Southern Trains fiasco but as soon as the Union really do put the screws on its ban strikes and curb union power.
And as I have said before I think it is sad and pretty hypocritical for many on here to lambast people on very low wages who mostly doa decent job and most certainly are not part of that section of BA CC who we have all experienced at times who may by some measures may have been overpaid
No the problem is that close on ten years of dishonesty and unethical and often useless managements (and the Union management are included in that) focussed only on increasing their salary , bonuses and stock options has gradually begun to catch up with UK Plc with far too many people earning inadequate salaries for any sort of life especially if you live near or commute to LHR. People have learned that in todays world you get paid not what you are worth but what you can screw out of employer-hence TFL drivers get big money because no tube no London. Also people in these age groups have seen city folk bring the country to its knees and yet still earn big bucks because in their case as has been demonstrated for the most part they lose our money not their own.
Its like the invisible Surrey and Sussex Tory MPs who never said a word about the Southern Trains fiasco but as soon as the Union really do put the screws on its ban strikes and curb union power.
And as I have said before I think it is sad and pretty hypocritical for many on here to lambast people on very low wages who mostly doa decent job and most certainly are not part of that section of BA CC who we have all experienced at times who may by some measures may have been overpaid
i dont see any difference between my comment on being over paid and yours, I just didnt know where they were potentially being over paid and by what measures . All you did was essentially explain where so I am not sure whay i lost youat that point.
And if we look at the last 70 years it is a failure of British management -as I pointed out I include union management (leaders) in that by mixing politics with member issues in the same way that instead of building sustainable and positive relations with employees owners have taken every opportunity to make their life worse .Its a sorry tale on both sides
And if we look at the last 70 years it is a failure of British management -as I pointed out I include union management (leaders) in that by mixing politics with member issues in the same way that instead of building sustainable and positive relations with employees owners have taken every opportunity to make their life worse .Its a sorry tale on both sides
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If that nasty McClunky had meaningfully negotiated with BA during the last dispute there may not have been a mixed fleet or one that looks very different. Because of their intransigence and poor leadership from BASSA it just got imposed by WW. So imho he and BASSA are partly the architects of this.
I do think these poor b*ggers from MF are being used in Unites and McClunkys bigger political game and could be left high and dry.
I can't see Willy backing down he can still operate a big chunk of the network and knows the MF crew can't afford to stay out long as they are not on the inflated salaries of the 'old' crew.
My only fear is the other crew who are part of BASSA could be encouraged for a 'sickout' (they have form in this area) to save Unites face.
Does McClunky learn nothing about public support when you plan industrial action at Christmas (all the negative headlines last time).
If only they had negotiated meaningfully last time - Unite you reap what you sow.
See they are going to ACAS tomorrow now.
I feel for these crew represented by these muppets.
I do think these poor b*ggers from MF are being used in Unites and McClunkys bigger political game and could be left high and dry.
I can't see Willy backing down he can still operate a big chunk of the network and knows the MF crew can't afford to stay out long as they are not on the inflated salaries of the 'old' crew.
My only fear is the other crew who are part of BASSA could be encouraged for a 'sickout' (they have form in this area) to save Unites face.
Does McClunky learn nothing about public support when you plan industrial action at Christmas (all the negative headlines last time).
If only they had negotiated meaningfully last time - Unite you reap what you sow.
See they are going to ACAS tomorrow now.
I feel for these crew represented by these muppets.
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The other side of the coin:
1.Work harder at school;
2. Choose a different career; and
3. If you must strike don't choose the Christmas period.
Striking at Christmas does nothing to further your cause and gives management the opportunity to gain the high ground ...
i presume there'll be no BA advert running showing lots of happy families meeting and greeting over the Christmas period.
How times have changed - I always thought the ambitions of cabin crew were to travel the World and marry a pilot ... now they want a decent wage as well ... there's no pleasing some folk
1.Work harder at school;
2. Choose a different career; and
3. If you must strike don't choose the Christmas period.
Striking at Christmas does nothing to further your cause and gives management the opportunity to gain the high ground ...
i presume there'll be no BA advert running showing lots of happy families meeting and greeting over the Christmas period.
How times have changed - I always thought the ambitions of cabin crew were to travel the World and marry a pilot ... now they want a decent wage as well ... there's no pleasing some folk
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Tongue in cheek ... I know more cabin crew with master's degrees than in any other profession ...
However, the travelling public must be your first concern over (selfish) self-interest ... ways and means, but I don't think Christmas is it ...
There's enough trouble already with small boys playing with big trains ...
However, the travelling public must be your first concern over (selfish) self-interest ... ways and means, but I don't think Christmas is it ...
There's enough trouble already with small boys playing with big trains ...
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Just to clarify that Willie Walsh (as CEO of IAG) will not be involved in this. Industrial relations are the responsibility of the operating airline CEOs.
Alex Cruz is now CEO of BA (who is an unknown quantity as far as response to industrial action at BA is concerned) will be leading this.
BA's response to the strike announcement on Friday (making it absolutely clear the strike would fail) actually sounded far more combative than when BASSA was intent on driving the airline off a cliff.
MF do have legitimate concerns around some of the rostering (witness the very different response to other workgroups in the airline to the BASSA dispute of 2009) and hopefully this is resolved without industrial action.
Alex Cruz is now CEO of BA (who is an unknown quantity as far as response to industrial action at BA is concerned) will be leading this.
BA's response to the strike announcement on Friday (making it absolutely clear the strike would fail) actually sounded far more combative than when BASSA was intent on driving the airline off a cliff.
MF do have legitimate concerns around some of the rostering (witness the very different response to other workgroups in the airline to the BASSA dispute of 2009) and hopefully this is resolved without industrial action.
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BA has said today that they do not plan to cancel any flights during the strike period.
In the meantime, BA can't be certain which of it's crew will turn up for work/call in sick etc. Contingency plans will have to be put in place, which will undoubtedly cost money, even if they are not used.
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"We reject Unite's claims about Mixed Fleet's earnings and have offered an independent audit of our pay data over the last 12 months to support our statement that Mixed Fleet cabin crew working full-time earn more than £21,000 a year.
"The pay data shows that the range of earnings paid out to full-time Mixed Fleet crew between September 1 2015 and August 31 2016 was £21,151.35 - £27,356.30."
British Airways 'to deliver full Christmas service despite strikes' | London Evening Standard
"The pay data shows that the range of earnings paid out to full-time Mixed Fleet crew between September 1 2015 and August 31 2016 was £21,151.35 - £27,356.30."
British Airways 'to deliver full Christmas service despite strikes' | London Evening Standard
Standard practice for Unite - plead poverty! I remember the same tosh coming out of them during the 2010 dispute and I know 100% fact that back then a CSD on WW would earn around £65k all up. If you took married rosters in to account that would produce a joint income well in excess of £100k pa.
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CSD on WW would earn around £65k all up
However, that's just like saying, co-pilots in BA earn in excess of £100k. Or a household income in excess of £200k should they, (like your CSD) be married to a similarly qualified spouse!
That's not because it's 'market rate', (it isn't!) but just because that's what's agreed between the employer and the employee. (via their unions)
So what's your point???
Of course new SCCMs now earn half your CSD's figure, and have more onerous office duties/responsibilities! Why shouldn't we just accept pilot's pay going the same way?
After all, 'market rate' should apply to all employees shouldn't it?