Delta crew refused to believe black woman was a doctor during emergency
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Right, so I'm sure if there had been an article about a young white doctor helping out a sick pax, you would have all taken to PPRuNe to yell "Well they better have checked she was qualified"? Or maybe you wouldn't have?
If you needed any more proof that it's still damn hard to be a black professional in 2016, it's right here for all to see. The immediate assumption that "it must have been a mistake and "bigotry and racism sell newspapers" is as good an explanation as any as to why the likes of Trump can potentially become heads of state. Depressing.
If you needed any more proof that it's still damn hard to be a black professional in 2016, it's right here for all to see. The immediate assumption that "it must have been a mistake and "bigotry and racism sell newspapers" is as good an explanation as any as to why the likes of Trump can potentially become heads of state. Depressing.
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Delta has posted this update on Facebook:
Is it possible that maybe the 'victim' copped an attitude when asked to produce her credentials?
As one of the Facebook commenters said:
Delta continues to investigate a story surfaced by Dr. Tamika Cross in a recent post on Facebook.
We are troubled by any accusations of discrimination and take them very seriously. The experience Dr. Cross has described is not reflective of Delta’s culture or of the values our employees live out every day. We are in the process of conducting a full investigation. We’ve reached out to Dr. Cross to speak with her directly, talked with our crew members and we’re reaching out to customers who were on board to gather as much information as we can.
While there is much we can’t share because our investigation involves confidential personnel matters, we do want to share what we can.
Three medical professionals identified themselves on the flight in question. Only one was able to produce documentation of medical training and that is the doctor who was asked to assist the customer onboard. In addition, paramedics met the flight to assist the customer further.
Flight attendants are trained to collect information from medical volunteers offering to assist with an onboard medical emergency. When an individual’s medical identification isn’t available, they’re instructed to ask questions such as where medical training was received or whether an individual has a business card or other documentation and ultimately to use their best judgment.
We are troubled by any accusations of discrimination and take them very seriously. The experience Dr. Cross has described is not reflective of Delta’s culture or of the values our employees live out every day. We are in the process of conducting a full investigation. We’ve reached out to Dr. Cross to speak with her directly, talked with our crew members and we’re reaching out to customers who were on board to gather as much information as we can.
While there is much we can’t share because our investigation involves confidential personnel matters, we do want to share what we can.
Three medical professionals identified themselves on the flight in question. Only one was able to produce documentation of medical training and that is the doctor who was asked to assist the customer onboard. In addition, paramedics met the flight to assist the customer further.
Flight attendants are trained to collect information from medical volunteers offering to assist with an onboard medical emergency. When an individual’s medical identification isn’t available, they’re instructed to ask questions such as where medical training was received or whether an individual has a business card or other documentation and ultimately to use their best judgment.
As one of the Facebook commenters said:
FWIW, I'm a physician and have been on no fewer than 4 flights with medical emergencies, on 3 different airlines including Delta. Every time I was asked for credentials before being allowed to help.
Medical credentials
While flying in the ME for a large national carrier, if a doctor was needed, crew had to sight an ID showing that he/she was a medical doctor.
Not a physicist or the like.
Also if they needed to access the onboard medical kit, the procedure was to hold his ID until he had signed off the paperwork. :/
Not a physicist or the like.
Also if they needed to access the onboard medical kit, the procedure was to hold his ID until he had signed off the paperwork. :/
In our current litigious society, I can't imagine a major airline letting someone "play doctor" without first checking credentials - to do otherwise would be inviting a 7 figure lawsuit.
I suspect the young doctor was unfamiliar with the SOP of checking credentials, perhaps got a little lippy about it - when another doctor showed their credentials they were asked to assist the patient - a doctor who just happened to be white and male.
In normal society - a miss-understand solved with a clarification and apology for any perceived disrespect of the young doctor and advice to have her credentials available in the future.
In today's society, where any possible grievance takes on world-shaking significance, add in the aggrieved doctor was young, female, and black and you have the perfect trifecta of ageism, racism, and sexism. Hence it's front page news world wide...
We
Are
So
I suspect the young doctor was unfamiliar with the SOP of checking credentials, perhaps got a little lippy about it - when another doctor showed their credentials they were asked to assist the patient - a doctor who just happened to be white and male.
In normal society - a miss-understand solved with a clarification and apology for any perceived disrespect of the young doctor and advice to have her credentials available in the future.
In today's society, where any possible grievance takes on world-shaking significance, add in the aggrieved doctor was young, female, and black and you have the perfect trifecta of ageism, racism, and sexism. Hence it's front page news world wide...
We
Are
So
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Tdracer's post is not without merit. Airlines and corporate entities that deal with the public are under constant threat of lawsuits - many frivolous.
The problem with this case aboard that Delta flight was the slight was just one in likely far too many that this female doctor of color faces day in and day out. When given a publicly witnessed moment where these racist slights were on display, she pushed back. Can anyone blame her?
The fact is, racism is systemic and alive and well in America. You might not notice, however, if you happen to live in that insular world otherwise known as "white society". On the other side of that, Tdracer is correct in pointing out how the media and the public can overreact beyond the apparent 'small offence' against a person of color - likely due to the fact that racism for a black person is like death by a thousand little cuts. There needs to be a happy medium.
The problem with this case aboard that Delta flight was the slight was just one in likely far too many that this female doctor of color faces day in and day out. When given a publicly witnessed moment where these racist slights were on display, she pushed back. Can anyone blame her?
The fact is, racism is systemic and alive and well in America. You might not notice, however, if you happen to live in that insular world otherwise known as "white society". On the other side of that, Tdracer is correct in pointing out how the media and the public can overreact beyond the apparent 'small offence' against a person of color - likely due to the fact that racism for a black person is like death by a thousand little cuts. There needs to be a happy medium.
Right, so I'm sure if there had been an article about a young white doctor helping out a sick pax, you would have all taken to PPRuNe to yell "Well they better have checked she was qualified"? Or maybe you wouldn't have?
If you needed any more proof that it's still damn hard to be a black professional in 2016, it's right here for all to see. The immediate assumption that "it must have been a mistake and "bigotry and racism sell newspapers" is as good an explanation as any as to why the likes of Trump can potentially become heads of state. Depressing.
If you needed any more proof that it's still damn hard to be a black professional in 2016, it's right here for all to see. The immediate assumption that "it must have been a mistake and "bigotry and racism sell newspapers" is as good an explanation as any as to why the likes of Trump can potentially become heads of state. Depressing.
You're talking to someone who flew as FO with a top rate black captain over thirty years ago and subsequently had a black head of training in a sister company.
Don't try to stifle comment by playing the race card; that's so passé.
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If you say so
You're talking to someone who flew as FO with a top rate black captain over thirty years ago and subsequently had a black head of training in a sister company.
Don't try to stifle comment by playing the race card; that's so passé.
You're talking to someone who flew as FO with a top rate black captain over thirty years ago and subsequently had a black head of training in a sister company.
Don't try to stifle comment by playing the race card; that's so passé.
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Identify as a doctor
I've been involved in 3-4 events over the years. Typically crew asks for identification. I give them my license, my business card, and in Texas we get a pocket size copy of our license. i carry that and share it.
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I contacted a friend of mine and as expected, they've been instructed to not discuss the case. However, I was able to get him to tell me that during training, they (and probably most other airlines), require FAs to ask for credentials of medically trained pax when a medical emergency is involved. He added that he felt sure, based on the practices of Delta FA & SOPs, that the facts would reveal themselves as appropriate.
I came away from the conversation thinking that it's become easy to use the term racism. And it's a two-way street. It sure has been one sided under the BLM doctrine. Maybe said OB-GYN didn't know protocols and misunderstood the FAs implication that they had a credentialed doctor ready to assess the unconscious pax. Quite possibly no reflection on her skin tone, but on what was required by SOPs, in a timely manner. Am I extrapolating? Yes, you could say that, based on the professionalism I know is required by FAs in major carriers both domestic & int'l. This doctors's description didn't match what I understand the training to be and my friend substantiated that vehemently.
There's my 2 cents. Time will tell. If it happened as described by the doctor, then shame on this Delta FA. And her peers will not support her.
I came away from the conversation thinking that it's become easy to use the term racism. And it's a two-way street. It sure has been one sided under the BLM doctrine. Maybe said OB-GYN didn't know protocols and misunderstood the FAs implication that they had a credentialed doctor ready to assess the unconscious pax. Quite possibly no reflection on her skin tone, but on what was required by SOPs, in a timely manner. Am I extrapolating? Yes, you could say that, based on the professionalism I know is required by FAs in major carriers both domestic & int'l. This doctors's description didn't match what I understand the training to be and my friend substantiated that vehemently.
There's my 2 cents. Time will tell. If it happened as described by the doctor, then shame on this Delta FA. And her peers will not support her.
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This is just another media beatup.
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Re: credentials check.
Here's a couple quotations from the young doctor's original post of what allegedly happened:
That doesn't seem like proper SOP for "establishing credentials"?
Later in the flight:
Again, doesn't seem to fit the "checking for credentials" excuse.
Here's a couple quotations from the young doctor's original post of what allegedly happened:
A couple mins later he is unresponsive again and the flight attendant yells "call overhead for a physician on board". I raised my hand to grab her attention. She said to me "oh no sweetie put ur hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you" I tried to inform her that I was a physician but I was continually cut off by condescending remarks.
Later in the flight:
Another "seasoned" white male approaches the row and says he is a physician as well. She says to me "thanks for your help but he can help us, and he has his credentials". (Mind you he hasn't shown anything to her. Just showed up and fit the "description of a doctor")
I have a friend who is currently in his 4th 1st year med school. Yes, he is in this fourth University, attempting to pass his 1st year meds. His facebook is full of selfies of himself in scrubs, stethoscope always visible, taken from some of his hospital visits. This guys loves talking medical terms, and no doubt would volunteer and identify himself as a 'doctor'.
People like this are the reason why FAs should always ask for credentials.
People like this are the reason why FAs should always ask for credentials.
You made it very eloquently for me.
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Hey smiling monkey, your comment is kinda troll-like, and ageist. Many captains, and a lot of co-pilots are also probably grandparents..
I am pretty sure that all the cabin crew involved have worked with black colleagues and have served black customers for years. It is quite possible some of the cabin crew have had (or do have) black supervisors and/or managers. To accuse the personnel involved in the incident with overt racism is quite possibly an over-reaction. To be involved in front line customer service for an international airline and simultaneously hold deep racist positions must be extremely counterproductive.
I am pretty sure that all the cabin crew involved have worked with black colleagues and have served black customers for years. It is quite possible some of the cabin crew have had (or do have) black supervisors and/or managers. To accuse the personnel involved in the incident with overt racism is quite possibly an over-reaction. To be involved in front line customer service for an international airline and simultaneously hold deep racist positions must be extremely counterproductive.
Last edited by evansb; 15th Oct 2016 at 07:22.
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Reality check:
In the US, the whining neurotics get press, the person treating the patient does not.
Film at 11.
peekay.. is this all 'according to the person claiming discrimination', or the actual reality of the situation? How does this person know if anyone showed credentials, and I dont see anywhere that the 'victim' said she showed hers.
Medical liability in the US, and for the airline, and for that matter, being a 'doctor' in the US could mean anything. Cred rules, bs drools.
Tamika Cross FB page.
why ask for credentials?
In the US, the whining neurotics get press, the person treating the patient does not.
Film at 11.
peekay.. is this all 'according to the person claiming discrimination', or the actual reality of the situation? How does this person know if anyone showed credentials, and I dont see anywhere that the 'victim' said she showed hers.
While asking for a physician onboard the plane, the flight attendant refuses to believe that Ms. Cross, a black woman, is a doctor.
"I raised my hand to grab her attention," Cross wrote. "She said to me, 'Oh no sweetie put your hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you.' I tried to inform her that I was a physician but I was continually cut off by condescending remarks."
Cross had to explain again that she was a physician — and even then, she said, the flight attendant asked "to see her credentials" — all while the sick passenger was still in need of help.
"I raised my hand to grab her attention," Cross wrote. "She said to me, 'Oh no sweetie put your hand down, we are looking for actual physicians or nurses or some type of medical personnel, we don't have time to talk to you.' I tried to inform her that I was a physician but I was continually cut off by condescending remarks."
Cross had to explain again that she was a physician — and even then, she said, the flight attendant asked "to see her credentials" — all while the sick passenger was still in need of help.
Tamika Cross FB page.
why ask for credentials?
Last edited by underfire; 15th Oct 2016 at 08:38.
Not sure about the US but dare I ask what exactly are people expecting a doc to present when asked for their "credentials"? A business card with "Doctor" on it proves nothing.( and as mentioned in the other thread in some circumstances a para medic may be more use than a doc)....
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In UK a Doctor's letter can often be used as authentication of your ID. It can also be used to skip school or work. Who authenticates the anonymous doctor?