Routes you dread doing?
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Routes you dread doing?
Hi,I am not THAT frequent a flyer but on a couple of recent LGW-MBJ and returns I have seen more disruptive passengers than in the rest of my travelling life! I am amazed we got off the ground last week as there was a major shouting/swearing match over seats and security came on to help the Cabin Crew (no one was off loaded). Just got me thinking, are there any routes you dread?
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Routes we dread.
This list can be very varied as crew dislike routes for lots of different reasons.
1. Poor onboard sales or poor allowances for overnight stays.
2. Staffing levels of a particular aircraft type.
3. Pax profile.
4. Safety and security of destination.
5. Timing of particular duty.
6. Repeated aircraft changes as destination is airline main hangar.
7. Poor airport handling resulting in delays on a regular basis.
Amongst others!
1. Poor onboard sales or poor allowances for overnight stays.
2. Staffing levels of a particular aircraft type.
3. Pax profile.
4. Safety and security of destination.
5. Timing of particular duty.
6. Repeated aircraft changes as destination is airline main hangar.
7. Poor airport handling resulting in delays on a regular basis.
Amongst others!
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If "Security" did get on your plane and you flew with the same passengers who had been disruptive, then you flew with a bunch complete bunch of amateurs. Here's the reason. In the the air, the only people who are able to keep any sort of order are the cabin crew. If they are unable to manage these people on the ground, they have absolutely no chance in the air. It's not that the cabin crew were deficient, it's just that they are neither night club bouncers nor police officers. Their only weapons are charm, persuasion and reason. If they prove ineffective with certain people on the ground then to fly with the same people is quite stupid. Unfortunately, there are some people are unsuitable for air travel and it should be up to them to find another form of transport. Furthermore, "Security" despite their implied remit have no real powers on an aircraft. Also, their lack of training (especially in the UK) means that they will be more if a hindrance than help. And how do you determine who they are? These are the only people in who don't display their IDs. Therefore, if any external muscle is required, it has to be the police or their local equivalent.
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When I say "security" I am using a generalisation,there are a lot of badged staff at MBJ, from the guy with the sniffer dog to the last pat down just before you board and it was one of these who came on,all told the incident took about 20mins to resolve,with as you say persuasion and reason.There just seems to be a lot of rude passengers on this route and for a 9hr stretch it must be stressfull for the CC.
Last edited by W P Butcher; 4th Aug 2014 at 15:53.
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I would have asked the Captain immediately to offload offending passengers if things kicked off on the ground, as Piltdown Man says the crew have very few weapons at their disposal, usually charm and politeness are the most effective. I always found that joining in with the drunken banter go you 'on their side' so to speak and generally they would then comply quickly if asked to do something.
dantheflyboy sums it up very well, what can be a very pleasant route one day can be hell the day after.
A few of my favourites (London based):
- Inverness (mostly older customers who loved a nice chat! tea and G&Ts all round)
- Edinburgh and Glasgow (like a business bus service, very easy flights)
- Gibraltar (generally had nice punters on that route and is a cool approach
)
- Innsbruck in the winter (loved the view and skiing pax are generally a nice bunch). Although that route could turn nasty quickly if a diversion occurred...
Not so keen on:
- Long holiday flights, Sharm, Tenerife, Larnaca etc.. (good money but a long day and very busy flights)
- Anywhere in Italy (flights are chaotic with luggage and ground services are awful)
My least favourite was Moscow. I found most of the passengers to be very rude and very demanding. Locking the toilet didn't seem to happen frequently either.
dantheflyboy sums it up very well, what can be a very pleasant route one day can be hell the day after.
A few of my favourites (London based):
- Inverness (mostly older customers who loved a nice chat! tea and G&Ts all round)
- Edinburgh and Glasgow (like a business bus service, very easy flights)
- Gibraltar (generally had nice punters on that route and is a cool approach
) - Innsbruck in the winter (loved the view and skiing pax are generally a nice bunch). Although that route could turn nasty quickly if a diversion occurred...
Not so keen on:
- Long holiday flights, Sharm, Tenerife, Larnaca etc.. (good money but a long day and very busy flights)
- Anywhere in Italy (flights are chaotic with luggage and ground services are awful)
My least favourite was Moscow. I found most of the passengers to be very rude and very demanding. Locking the toilet didn't seem to happen frequently either.
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The ones that come up most frequently amongst my friends who are, or have been, CC, are Lagos and Tel Aviv, with Montego Bay and Kingston close behind. Also Nice during the Cannes festivals when the aircraft are full of DYKWIAs.
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Tel Aviv
Collectively the Tel Aviv passengers are the most rude, inconsiderate, selfish, demanding and generally charmless bunch of people I have ever met.
I thank my luck I have a bullet proof door between them and me.
I thank my luck I have a bullet proof door between them and me.
Was SLF on a flight from JFK to MAN some years ago, taxying out a person of religious persuasion would not sit next to a Gentile, was told either sit down strap in and shut or they would taxi back, this being rush hour and he'd be thrown off and arrested. We departed on time.
The problem with TLV is that no one remains in their seat for more than two minutes. It's to do with the size of the country and everyone is looking to see if they know someone else on board nightmare! Add to that the number of special meals and the inevitable missing ones or the punter who didn't order a KSML and then insists they did.
Have had the problem of orthodox man refusing to sit next to a women on full flight many times. This can lead to a lot of grief as the woman is usually very insulted by this.
The customer on these flights is extremely demanding and definitely wants to get maximum value from their ticket price
Have had the problem of orthodox man refusing to sit next to a women on full flight many times. This can lead to a lot of grief as the woman is usually very insulted by this.
The customer on these flights is extremely demanding and definitely wants to get maximum value from their ticket price
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There is a knack to doing TLV. When a previous employer started the route, I wrote the crew brief and then operated nothing but TLV for a couple of months. Initially, there is considerable pain, but then scar tissue forms and you can't feel it anymore. I ended up quite liking the route.
TLV is an in-you-face and loud pax profile: If you attempt to get by with a quiet and discrete English Rose approach, you will simply be flattened and they probably won't notice the bump. You need to give as good as you get, but stay calm and firm and know your stuff.
Depending upon the time of day, some pax may wish to organise prayers. It's usually easier to work with them and offer galley space rather than huff and puff. Ask your passengers once airborne and find out who might lead the prayers (pilots should be able to get local time of sunset for you) and then work with them. People are usually very grateful for any efforts you can make.
If your airline is operating the TLV without 100% KSML catering then somebody in your cabin services management team is a moron: If you're not certain who it is, look to see who is regularly being promoted. Kill them, and their family, and then get the catering sorted out. KSML catering is a big deal on these flights, and airlines really should be addressing the genuine needs of their customers, rather than trying to shave costs and allowing the crew to bear the brunt.
Don't get involved in stowing hand baggage and hatboxes: The pax will squabble and fight for a while, but at least they will be squabbling with each other. If you are present it will be your fault, so be somewhere else. Eventually, everything will be stowed except for 3 hatboxes the size of small house which their owners will tell you cannot be stowed in the hold. Make a PA announcement advising that the flight will miss its' ATC slot in 5 minutes and incur a 3 hour delay as a result of excessively large hatboxes. Everything will be stowed away within 3 minutes leaving 2 minutes for everybody to shout at the hatbox owners.
The PA approach also works well for male/female seating issues, and many others. Let the other passengers do your work for you. Everybody seems to quite enjoy a good slanging match, so in a way, you're making life better for your customers.
Above all (and this may seem difficult initially) relax and enjoy. Don't get bogged down in excessive services, or be overly officious about rules. TLV pax are by and large, witty, keen intelligent, communicative and friendly: If you're the same, you'll be alright.
Usually.
TLV is an in-you-face and loud pax profile: If you attempt to get by with a quiet and discrete English Rose approach, you will simply be flattened and they probably won't notice the bump. You need to give as good as you get, but stay calm and firm and know your stuff.
Depending upon the time of day, some pax may wish to organise prayers. It's usually easier to work with them and offer galley space rather than huff and puff. Ask your passengers once airborne and find out who might lead the prayers (pilots should be able to get local time of sunset for you) and then work with them. People are usually very grateful for any efforts you can make.
If your airline is operating the TLV without 100% KSML catering then somebody in your cabin services management team is a moron: If you're not certain who it is, look to see who is regularly being promoted. Kill them, and their family, and then get the catering sorted out. KSML catering is a big deal on these flights, and airlines really should be addressing the genuine needs of their customers, rather than trying to shave costs and allowing the crew to bear the brunt.
Don't get involved in stowing hand baggage and hatboxes: The pax will squabble and fight for a while, but at least they will be squabbling with each other. If you are present it will be your fault, so be somewhere else. Eventually, everything will be stowed except for 3 hatboxes the size of small house which their owners will tell you cannot be stowed in the hold. Make a PA announcement advising that the flight will miss its' ATC slot in 5 minutes and incur a 3 hour delay as a result of excessively large hatboxes. Everything will be stowed away within 3 minutes leaving 2 minutes for everybody to shout at the hatbox owners.
The PA approach also works well for male/female seating issues, and many others. Let the other passengers do your work for you. Everybody seems to quite enjoy a good slanging match, so in a way, you're making life better for your customers.
Above all (and this may seem difficult initially) relax and enjoy. Don't get bogged down in excessive services, or be overly officious about rules. TLV pax are by and large, witty, keen intelligent, communicative and friendly: If you're the same, you'll be alright.
Usually.
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My experience with TLV bound pax was at ticketing counters, resolving disputes over ticket reissue prices, baggage charges, missed connections and similar.
I wouldn't have expressed it quite so generously!
Collectively the Tel Aviv passengers are the most rude, inconsiderate, selfish, demanding and generally charmless bunch of people I have ever met.
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Interesting that there is, allegedly, one airline that does not truck any such nonsense on the TLV route and that is El Al
Last edited by beerdrinker; 7th Aug 2014 at 12:00.
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In the old days it was anything on a Friday Night (IBZ/CFU/PMI/GRO) but these days god only knows. In Company X,X,X,X,X,X a whole crew went sick / got off leading up to a Xmas day TLV. Don't sound much except to say the aircraft was a DC10................
Needless to say the crew for the week Bridgetown all managed to slumber in.
Needless to say the crew for the week Bridgetown all managed to slumber in.
Been a while already, but NCE is definitely seconded.
It already started when the passengers left the bus to see a Dash 8 waiting to take them on board. The looks in many faces ranged from disbelief ("...this thing has propellers!?") to disgust and the occasional mentioned DYKWIA attempt (usually sorted out by reminding them that it would be definitely this aircraft that was going to NCE that night and the next flight would leave the next evening, should they prefer. Operated by a Dash.).
Interestingly, Business class passengers were reported to be typically way more modest and low-maintenance than those further in the back. The cabin crew was usually most happy to open the door for disembarkation after the flight.
It already started when the passengers left the bus to see a Dash 8 waiting to take them on board. The looks in many faces ranged from disbelief ("...this thing has propellers!?") to disgust and the occasional mentioned DYKWIA attempt (usually sorted out by reminding them that it would be definitely this aircraft that was going to NCE that night and the next flight would leave the next evening, should they prefer. Operated by a Dash.).
Interestingly, Business class passengers were reported to be typically way more modest and low-maintenance than those further in the back. The cabin crew was usually most happy to open the door for disembarkation after the flight.
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Top 10 unfriendliest cities in the world:
1. Johannesburg, South Africa
2. Cannes, France
3. Moscow, Russia
4. Paris, France
5. Marseille, France
6. Beijing, China
7. Frankfurt, Germany
8. Milan, Italy
9. Monte Carlo, Monaco
10. Nassau, Bahamas
No surprise that 4 out of 10 are in France (I am counting Monaco as France).
1. Johannesburg, South Africa
2. Cannes, France
3. Moscow, Russia
4. Paris, France
5. Marseille, France
6. Beijing, China
7. Frankfurt, Germany
8. Milan, Italy
9. Monte Carlo, Monaco
10. Nassau, Bahamas
No surprise that 4 out of 10 are in France (I am counting Monaco as France).
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Agree on the NCE comment above, too much linen.
Along with NCE, a similar flight for the DYKWIA crowd is BRU, or even AMS. BRU especially at peak times on Mondays and Fridays.
Anything like PMI, IBZ, ALC, CFU etc can be messy, and rough and not nice at all.
I quite like flights like ARN, ZRH, CPH, MUC, etc. where it's all commuters, but not the pious kind, which makes for a nice relaxed service. Never been much for Long-Haul, but out of all of them I'd say BOS is by far my favourite. Usually a nice crowd on it, especially on the expensive side of the curtain!
Along with NCE, a similar flight for the DYKWIA crowd is BRU, or even AMS. BRU especially at peak times on Mondays and Fridays.
Anything like PMI, IBZ, ALC, CFU etc can be messy, and rough and not nice at all.
I quite like flights like ARN, ZRH, CPH, MUC, etc. where it's all commuters, but not the pious kind, which makes for a nice relaxed service. Never been much for Long-Haul, but out of all of them I'd say BOS is by far my favourite. Usually a nice crowd on it, especially on the expensive side of the curtain!
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Re: TLV
heh... I've only done the TLV route once, but it was memorable...
There was I, happily settled into my seat down the back before departure.
Man turns up and initiates discussion in hebrew with woman sitting next to me.
Not being a speaker, I was thinking they were arguing over double-allocation of seats or something as there was quite a lot of arm gesturing going on, but next thing I know, the man politely asks me if I'd mind awfully swapping seats with him so he could sit next to his friend whilst at the same time holding out a ticket for 1A in his hand plain for me to see.
Easiest decision in my life...
It's to do with the size of the country and everyone is looking to see if they know someone else on board nightmare!
There was I, happily settled into my seat down the back before departure.
Man turns up and initiates discussion in hebrew with woman sitting next to me.
Not being a speaker, I was thinking they were arguing over double-allocation of seats or something as there was quite a lot of arm gesturing going on, but next thing I know, the man politely asks me if I'd mind awfully swapping seats with him so he could sit next to his friend whilst at the same time holding out a ticket for 1A in his hand plain for me to see.
Easiest decision in my life...