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A Very British Airline?

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A Very British Airline?

Old 22nd Jun 2014, 10:04
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I watched all three episodes: I disliked BA before and have not been influenced to change my position.
Ditto, if anything I dislike BA more now than before.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 10:12
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Tightslot - never have truer words been said. I completely agree with your sentiments.

If BA adopt these training standards to new recruits, then they should adopt them across the whole training network and not just for the BBC. I'm sure BA have thousands of applications a year, but more needs to be done to screen the 'Jodies' of the world who look very glamorous but are not competent enough for the job of Cabin Crew. Sadly many of today's youngsters do not have the ability to strike up a conversation or other social skills because of social media and the world of computers. The art of conversation face to face seems to be dying art along with reading and writing skills.

I look back on my flying career with BOAC and recall that the Cabin Crew Manager at the time did not like effeminate or camp men. He thought the best way to single them out was to get the recruitment team to ask if they like ballet. If they did, no job. I can't recall any crew at the time liking ballet!
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 16:19
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Some Jodie's have and still do slip through the net. There are some exceptional CC at BA but some bad ones too. I was on a UK domestic last week, asked a polite simple question (as ex crew I know exactly how to ask the questions without annoying crew) but I was met with "I'm too busy to talk to you" in a very rude way. Not only was it rude, it was pretty embarrassing for me too - she did later apologise but still, there was no need for it.

If she wants to see what busy is, she should try doing a double GB to BFS on a Friday night on full 180 seat A320s with flight times of 35 minutes! It would have put this half empty A319 flight to LBA into perspective!

But for every awful one there are plenty of good ones. I flew into LHR back in February, left my ipad in the seat pocket and the crew took it and looked out for me in arrivals which they didn't have to do and they saved me a lot of hassle.

You will always get idiots who some how make it through recruitment. I remember day one of my training one candidate turned up with Barbie pink hair, made it through training but thankfully failed the line check. All the stages, checks, exams, snapshots/points, check flights and assessments are all there to try and minimise the amount if idiots who make it through and I felt the show was pretty balanced.

It is a responsible job but there's something very wrong when I see classrooms full of 18 year olds who are training for their very first job. With unemployment recently at record high levels, I struggle to believe that some of the candidates were honestly the strongest performers on their assessment days.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 19:27
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Angry

Fine words from Tightslot! A lot of issues in today's airlines can be solved with "Can we please just be adults about this..." I echo the 'exhausting' sentiment towards it all!

On the whole, bit of a PR Flop for BA then!

Have a watch of "Airline:Inside British Airways" on YouTube, fascinating difference in PR!
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 04:59
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Looks like 'Mixed Fleet' are looking to strike over pay conditions according to "The Guardian'

British Airways cabin crew 'ready to strike' over pay claim | Business | The Guardian

I like the bit about recruitment -

A BA spokesman told the Guardian: "Our cabin crew positions attract a high level of applicants due to the competitive package offered, our extensive route network and promotional opportunities. We are currently conducting pay talks with all parts of the airline and any talk of industrial action by one of four cabin crew groups is completely speculative."
From what we've seen on TV there are one or two 'Jodi's' around who don't make it!
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 05:51
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A very British airline...comment

I saw two of the programmes but missed the third. I wasn't impressed by BA and thought they treated their trainees pretty poorly. However, my mind went back 50 years or so to the days when I was in the Customs at Heathrow and dealt a lot with BEA and BOAC. OK, air travel was different in those days but I get the impression that flight crew and cabin staff in those days appeared to be much more professional, efficient, smart and generally competent. No disrespect to modern youngsters, but many of them just don't seem to have the necessary basic life skills or levels of common sense. I remember we used to snigger a bit at how stuck-up some of the senior BOAC Captains were - special cars at the aircraft steps and no crew busses for them, unlike most of the other airlines!
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 12:19
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Originally Posted by crewmeal
Looks like 'Mixed Fleet' are looking to strike over pay conditions according to "The Guardian'
Or the one-third who bothered to take part in the ballot.......
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 20:29
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Did they perhaps somewhat cynically keep her on as in their view it made good television and allowed them to show how rigourously they work to achieve standards (in their view) ?
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Old 25th Jun 2014, 23:44
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I remember we used to snigger a bit at how stuck-up some of the senior BOAC Captains were - special cars at the aircraft steps and no crew busses for them, unlike most of the other airlines!
Snigger you might, but they kept the standards up, and now you rightly remark how they are slipping.

As a new co-pilot I was "weaned" on the North Atlantic Barons - as we called them - i.e. those who stayed on the North Atlantic Routes to get their $10 a day subsistence allowance in New York ( covered Breakast, lunch and dinner,that did !)rather then spend their own money down the Eastern Routes, where hotel Full Board was paid for, and no cash allowance e.g. no "beer money".

We DON'T use Christian names on the flight deck, I was once admonished - I had to call him Sir! and he called me Mr. and I was his co-pilot !

Good Old Days.
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Old 26th Jun 2014, 05:37
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Oh yes and a certain BOAC Capt would only speak to the cabin crew via the FO. 'Would you ask the Capt what he'd like beef or chicken' 'Ask the Capt if he'd like tea or coffee' Sugar lumps only allowed on the flight deck. Napkins always had to be used.
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Old 26th Jun 2014, 09:18
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The most infamous of all old school Captains required the full Monty when speaking to him so it was Captain Gillette Sir and nothing else!

Each crew member was required to present themselves to him give name, rank and working position and use the words as above.

He used to carry his suitcase on the flight deck as it had a tendency of going missing or being run over by baggage trucks or being left out on apron in rain.

That said he did once buy me a beer but didn't want to share my company to enjoy it
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Old 26th Jun 2014, 09:26
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A rather crusty old ex-RAF type I knew who flew for Air Rhodesia always used to tell people, even in a social or non-flying context : "My name is Captain Peter Smith...." (name changed of course.). I saw him almost go apoplectic with rage when someone said : "Is Captain part of your name, or just a title?"
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Old 26th Jun 2014, 09:30
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And another....

Picture this....A hot summers day at 'Idlewild'. BOAC crew walking from their Stratocruiser to the terminal - led by Capt. O P Jones. Shirt sleeve order, caps to be worn.

He asks his Flight Engineer - 'Tell me Mr Simpson, is my shirt 'blousing' at the back?'

Simpson, looking. 'Er... no sir, it's well tucked in'.

'Good, then you won't mind my telling you that yours is!'

Those were the days.


S
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Old 27th Jun 2014, 21:27
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.............a certain BOAC Capt would only speak to the cabin crew via the FO.
You mean he SPOKE to the cabin crew ?

As S.O./ Nav. in the jump seat for take off, I witnessed one ask his F/O to - quote- "Tell Mr. XXX ( the Flt. Eng.) that I require take off power"

A friend, flying as co-pilot, once had to remind the Capt. that he - the Capt. - was getting a bit slow on approach to landing, and after a couple of totally ignored reminders grabbed a handful of throttles and pushed them forward. After landing the Capt. said " If you ever touch MY throttles again, they will be the last throttles you touch in BOAC "

Happy Days ? Maybe. Then we had the Trident Papa India crash on to Staines, with suggestions that the Capt. Queeg attitude of the Commander had some bearing on events ?
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Old 27th Jun 2014, 21:42
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He used to carry his suitcase on the flight deck...........
Reminds me .... crew used to buy baskets of fruit from the Nairobi market, but due to their weight they were advised to liase with the Captain as to the likelihood of the aircraft being able to flight plan direct to London, or make a refuelling stop in Rome before making their purchases that day? It was assumed that the Capt. might have some idea of the need for every litre of fuel for that days' departure, unlikely as that seems today.

One of our noteable martinets was walking around the aircraft prior to departure and noticed a clutch of fruit baskets with the suitcases awaiting loading into the rear hold, and said to the loaders " nobody asked my permission to carry fruit, that one is mine, put it on and leave all the others behind"

On arrival at London, the crew bus driver went up the rear steps and told the crew that there was only 1 basket of fruit to put on the bus, where were all the others ? Eventually the Captain was told of the lack of fruit, and he explained that nobody had asked his permission, so he had given orders to leave them all behind, except his. When the crew left the aircraft they found a basket of fruit squashed under the wheels of the bus. "Terribly sorry Sir, said the driver, 'fraid I backed up and never saw it, I did"
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Old 28th Jun 2014, 06:30
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Back on track apart from technology how has training in Cranebank changed since the 70's? Going back even further I've seen clips on youtube where crew practise serving bottle tops to passengers using a spoon and fork. That seems the perfect way to learn the art of service.

From what I've heard there is very little silver service onboard these days as everything is plated up. From watching the chefs in action on that series it seems everything evolves around the oven to perfect some of the food that is presented.
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Old 30th Jun 2014, 21:49
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Have just had chance to catch up on this series as I have been away and not noticed it. I am not a regular BA flyer anymore, so will not comment on the attitude, or eloquence of cabin crew, as I have observed similar issues with UK born EK crew on a flight 6 months ago, so not just BA issue I would suggest, maybe UK personnel attitude issue. We are not what we once were perhaps ?, I do not know. Did make me smile about the unaccompanied children though, as I was one of those with BCAL in the late 60/70s up from Santiago to school, and the farewells were always a little fraught (Sorry Auntie Julie but I was only 8 on that first trip - and I nearly gave you the slip in Rio so I could go home !). Also found the attitude of the Gold Card hunter difficult to take, also all the corporate responsibility stuff re their Cargo arm(dedicated freighters ) which has now been canned with their jobs gone.


Regards
Mr Mac

Last edited by Mr Mac; 1st Jul 2014 at 06:45.
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Old 1st Jul 2014, 15:05
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Mr Mac,

Yes, BA's face has changed over the years but the company's traditional values haven't. The ultimate objective is customer satisfaction and so repeat business from customer retention. Has BA done that? I would like to say yes, to a good enough extent. You had very fine words there.
I will praise BA for taking the courage over the years in being flexible with competition and adapting with it. BA has had options for example of choosing to move down levels (low cost, et la) in it's service but this would have highly impacted the quality of the product/service and so customer satisfaction would have suffered. So changing the face of the Airline in line with competition and of course the market place I think has been such a courage.

Customer feedback and survey take their place in the way BA is run for high impact areas of the business. It has to be that Recruitment and training too adapt to demand. One powerful thing BA has remained in the top half of the competition is it's ability to predict the future. There MUST be a thing or two the company chooses to "select certain candidates" for a role and not the other.

My question is would BA thrive in the current competition with that BOAC/BEA product?
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Old 1st Jul 2014, 16:58
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Kirungi 1
I think I would have to disagree with you on the traditional values, as I believe they have changed, and not for the better. You site BOAC / BEA both of which I flew with, and yes I would like to go back to that era of service, along with the more modern technology which is now available on Airbus and Boeing products. Unfortunately due to the age of some of the BA fleet the tech does not always work, and the service is not what it was IMHO.
As for customer satisfaction I would suggest that some one comes to Manchester after the shuttle has been cancelled again, and if not then go with "Fred the baggage drop man" when he is off on tour dropping missed connection bags all over northern England !. But I would suggest the best place to ask for Feedback would be in the bar on the Manchester EK 380, and ask why these high yield customers are there, and not on BA. It maybe that although the program was called a "Very British Airline" we in the north who used to use them, were left high and dry when they cut and ran from the regions, and have found more than suitable replacement's on long and short haul, be them LOCO or full service. So in the end I would not be tempted to return to fly with them on a regular basis on the back of this program. I think we will have to agree to differ but thank you for your post.


Regards
Mr Mac
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Old 1st Jul 2014, 17:29
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The general slack pronunciation you hear today on the OZ domestics is a pain in the arse. 'Eggs-its' for exits. 'Depart-cha' for departure.

Don't want to hear a toffee accent .. . . just good clear annunciation

ps - thank you tightslot for that spot on post..... bewdy!
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