BA8113 Wednesday 17th October MAN - LHR. Thank you!

[Wirbelsturm]

Sorry folks but a single passenger being moved from row 14 to row one on an A320 putting it out of trim

From a performance point of view the numbers moving are irrelevant. The problem comes when operating close to the trim limits (most commercial aircraft are balanced toward a medium passenger load). So a light passenger load can put you close to the trim limits as much as a heavy one.

The real kicker plays if you lose an engine on take-off, that's where you really feel an aircraft that's out of trim.

Move where you want for the flight just be in your seat for take off and landing please. I really don't care how much you moan.

[Espada III]

I suspect that the passenger who was required to stay in his seat would have moaned less, if the cabin service was better than non existent.

[bannercounty]

Spot on Espada. All I wanted was to pay for a coffee.

[TightSlot]

Originally Posted by Espada III

I suspect that the passenger who was required to stay in his seat would have moaned less, if the cabin service was better than non existent.

Originally Posted by bannercounty

Spot on Espada. All I wanted was to pay for a coffee.

That's a shift in the argument though. The conversation so far has been about the effect of seating restrictions on aircraft trim - a conversation that began when bannercounty suggested that the rules were in place purely to assist with corpse identification. People who are knowledgeable about aircraft trim and deal with it on a daily basis have taken the time to post on this thread about why that is not the case.

You might consider thanking them bannercounty, or even, God help us, a small degree of humility.

[bannercounty]

It turned into an interesting post alright and the answers were informative so thanks to one and all.

[SLF3]

Once got a jump seat ride on a 737 (those were the days) and watched the trim wheel moving as the cabin crew pushed a drinks cart from one end of the plane to the other. So 80 kg moving about the cabin does make a difference.

Have also been re-assigned seats at the gate (shock, horror: from business class to economy) for take off on a lightly loaded 767. There were very few of us, so even large planes have the same issue.

Question - if the weight sheet is done based on people sitting in assigned seats, how do airlines with free boarding cope? (I guess the slightly cynical answer would be 'they don't fly unless they are full, so the problem doesn't arise'.)

[Rwy in Sight]

SLF3,

I think, that in the case of very light loads they block the few front and last rows so they maintain the trim settings within limits.

Rwy in Sight

[Wirbelsturm]

Normally, light loads can be trim adjusted using the bags. Shifting bags from one hold to the other (fwd to aft and vice versa) will help.

Alot of the LoCo's don't carry much cargo thus giving them the oppotunity to do just that.

Also it depends upon whether or not the airline used containerised cargo systems. Hoofing a few bags from front to back isn't going to delay your flight too much, having to off load cargo containers and shift bags between takes a fair bit more time.

Light loads, short flights are generally the worse!

A badly trimmed 737 with an engine failure on takeoff and a drift back below V2 toward Vmca is a dangerous place to be!

[nicolai]

Originally Posted by Rwy in Sight

SLF3,

I think, that in the case of very light loads they block the few front and last rows so they maintain the trim settings within limits.

Yes. On EasyJet (A319) it happens at below 80 passengers or so (i.e., about half full) - I forget the actual number but I've been on a few flights where this happened.

[easyflyer83]

Yes. On EasyJet (A319) it happens at below 80 passengers or so (i.e., about half full) - I forget the actual number but I've been on a few flights where this happened.

Easyjet doesn't block rows off. Individual crew members may block certain rows off to achieve an even spread through out and below a certain pax figure (considerably higher than 80 pax) a zonal headcount is completed.

[Dawdler]

If you really want some fun look at the effect of a single pax moving from row 1 to the toilet in a shorts 330

Is that before or after they've had a dump?

[HiflierEK]

Can i ask , Were you in the over wing emergency exit row at row 14 ? Normally if passengers onboard at least 1 person must be sitting in these rows to operate the exit if needed. It sounds strange they wouldn't let you sit at row 1 though if you were the only passenger next to the two main crewed exits !

[bannercounty]

I wasn't seated in an emergency exit now.

[Mr Optimistic]

Well, I for one have learnt something ! Thanks for an informative thread.

[fa2fi]

Corpse ifentification? Really? So do airlines without assigned seating provide dog tags? Or maybe you need to provide dental records when you book online, just incase the worst should happen. You'll be telling me the brace position is designed to kill passengers instantly so the airlines can pay less compensation!

[Doors to Automatic]

1 passenger on the plane? And Virgin think they can make money on this route???

[TURIN]

This flight took place during the run down of BMI. That flight number was a BMI flight that had been taken over by BA.

Since 1st Nov, 8 flts/day have been cut. So yes you are absolutely right. There are enough flights to LHR from MAN, but no competition.