Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Other Aircrew Forums > Cabin Crew
Reload this Page >

The BA Union Thread I

Cabin Crew Where professional flight attendants discuss matters that affect our jobs & lives.

The BA Union Thread I

Old 17th Apr 2012, 09:56
  #61 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 178
Very much doubt that anyone will give a flying fig about introducing some competition and that's all that's happened. Unite still has the overwhelming majority of unionised legacy crew on its books. Furthermore, no attempt has been made to approach or recruit members from other unions. As has been stated above and on other forums, there appear to be many CC who would never join Unite for their own reasons but who are embracing the GMB's open-armed welcome.
mrpony is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2012, 22:15
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 33
Dongbaticus

No, you're wrong about the rumour thing. GMB has been granted sole rights to represent two new MF branches by BA. You can see the agreement here:

GMB Cabin Crew - BA Heathrow - A fresh look at industrial relations

You might be wrong to assume that 51% GMB membership was achieved since it is in BA's gift to negotiate and agree with whoever it likes.

Mr Pony, following yesterdays BASSA Branch meeting which I attended, it appears some folk have embarrassingly overstepped their remit.

Len McCluskey himself informed us that our CEO Keith Williams and Paul Kenny of the GMB had no knowledge of the GMB representing Mixed Fleet and that it would indeed contravene TUC rules, which they certainly are ‘arsed’ about.

Len went on to assure us there was no animosity arising from this, as he and Paul Kenny are the best friends and would be having a chat over tea and biscuits.

I suspect those responsible for the embarrassing faux pas will also be having chats, without tea and biscuits.

Following the meeting we were all drinking something a little stronger, as the unfinished business of our dispute was finally resolved. Confidentiality prevents me from going into details but ALL outstanding cases are settled.

Hugs all round, as we can now focus fully on delivering outstanding service to our customers.

The postings made by Dingbaticus are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions.
Dingbaticus is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2012, 09:58
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 880
Well if you heard it at the BASSA meeting it must be true!!

The Bridlington agreement which stops unions poaching each others members is not enforceable and would not be relevant in this instance.


Bridlington forbids a union from actively recruiting existing members of another union. Mixed fleet crew are not members of Unite/BASSA and the GMB are quite entitled to recruit them.


As I have stated before the GMB has had recognition rights for cabin crew in the past but just didn't bother to utilise it.


I will consider eating my old BOAC cap if it turns out not to be true that GMB have recognition rights for MF.
vctenderness is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2012, 11:17
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942
Angel

I don't think the GMB have been campaigning for Unite members to join.

This has been set up for non union members and thoes that feel unable to join Unite/BASSA.

Individual cabin crew have been suggesting people join the GMB but the GMB website clearly is directed towards people not already in Unite/BASSA.

I don't think it would be very democratic for Unite to say that people can't be in another union. Quite frankly many who are joining the GMB would be quite happy, being members of Unite, they just don't want to be in BASSA.

So there lies the problem!
Betty girl is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2012, 12:17
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Sounds like the BASSA faithful getting their knickers in a twist because they've been outwitted yet again. Play book rule 1 in the situation is to threaten action at the TUC because BASSAnistas think it's some sort of union police which dispenses summary justice to those who offend Unite. It would seem from the complete and utter failure of their letter writing campaign to get BALPA expelled from the TUC that Brendan Barber doesn't fancy himself as Len McClunkeys poodle.

Anyway, when's the Dear Leader leaving BASSA? I'd heard it was May. Can't wait to read the valedictory address by 'admin', I've cleared a couple of days in my diary.
Hand Solo is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2012, 13:06
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 880
What I find quite incredible is that the BASSA membership fall for the same old con trick time and time again!

There is no GMB agreement it was some rogue manager just cooking it up on his own - when there is a clear agreement signed by GMB and BA IR manager plain for all to see.


There is a secret deal done with BASSA but we can't tell anyone anything about it - the same old same old.


Cabin crew WAKE UP you are being treated like fools by this bunch of idiots.
vctenderness is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2012, 13:11
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: south east
Posts: 20
i thought that under the terms of the agreement that ended the last dispute that Unite had sole negotiating rights for Mixed Fleet.
has something changed in that regard?
jimd-f is offline  
Old 18th Apr 2012, 13:13
  #68 (permalink)  

CC Top
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wild blue yonder
Posts: 31
Not even 5 pages in, and the first idiot posts "misspelling" an opponent's username have already appeared.

A lot of familiar usernames here from previous BA threads; you people know the rules and to stick to them. This message is not for you.

For "new" users; read PPRuNe rules and forum rules, clearly posted, before you stick your oar in.

Zero tolerance if you don´t stick to the rules.

This is not and never has been, anything like the BASSA forum, or any of the other monkey-cage forums out there.

Unless you can post as a civilised and intelligent adult, don´t bother posting here at all.


NB: It takes us a lot less time to delete a username, than it takes you to register a new one.
CC Forum Moderators is offline  
Old 19th Apr 2012, 09:02
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: M3 usually!
Posts: 492
Hi Dingbaticus
Len McCluskey himself informed us that our CEO Keith Williams and Paul Kenny of the GMB had no knowledge of the GMB representing Mixed Fleet and that it would indeed contravene TUC rules, which they certainly are ‘arsed’ about.
I have no idea who Paul Kenny is but the agreement has clearly been signed by Mick Rix, a National Officer of the GMB (google him and you will find a whole page of Wikipaedia devoted to his union credentials) and BA's employee relations officer. Sounds to me as if the agreement will stand so we are back to having two unions around the table for crew NSP meetings. Just as before the dispute!
ottergirl is offline  
Old 19th Apr 2012, 11:38
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Out and About
Posts: 267
So, am I correct that:

EF LHR & WW LHR Crew have a choice between:
1) unite/bassa - with currently incumbent chair, bs and reps.
or
2) GMB - with an "appointed" rep previously from cc89.

MF LHR Crew have a choice between:
1) GMB - with a newly signed agreement - no current reps.
or
2) unite - no agreement - no current reps - bassa yet to decide whether to accept MF into the fold?

LGW Crew - I really do not know what their choices are.
TorC is offline  
Old 19th Apr 2012, 14:00
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942
Angel

TorC,

I don't think you are right.

WW,E/F and LGW have a choice of

BASSA. Reps as before minus some.
GMB. Ex CC89 reps and exBASSA reps

Mixed Fleet

UNITE. Unite Mixed Fleet rep (from a previous airline already in Unite)
GMB Don't personally know if Mixed Fleet rep appointed yet but probably.
Betty girl is offline  
Old 19th Apr 2012, 19:22
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 880
I think you need to consider the 'appointed reps' scenario.

When a new organisation gets a recognition agreement it has to get some reps to further it's cause and recruit.


This is perfectly acceptable and even the Certification Officer gives a period of grace before elections are held.


You, obviously, can't elect reps before you have members.


Once the GMB branch is established and membership has been recruited they will offer themselves for election.


BASSA ignores all of the rules and continues with a Branch Secretary who no longer works for the company it's members work for.
vctenderness is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2012, 10:48
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 103
Is democracy a new concept?!

Before any union can represent CC properly, it needs to foster a spirit of democracy. It seems to me CC believe they have to settle for choosing who's view they are going to sign up to, rather than who will listen to and represent them.

Until this changes, whichever union one signs up to it will be ineffective IMHO.
BlueUpGood is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2012, 09:18
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hants
Posts: 2,294
More Unite 'mistakes'

Taken from a report on the BBC website today, regarding the fuel tanker drivers dispute...

One company, Hoyer, will be involved in the talks despite an error which forced Unite to re-ballot its members at the firm after it discovered a number of its members had not received ballot papers last month.
Is Unite really the union that a profession that has safety accountabilities (Cabin Crew) deserves?

I'd have thought any professional body would want to be represented by an equally professional outfit...
anotherthing is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2012, 17:26
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Langley, Heathrow, UK
Posts: 32
Hi Dingbaticus

I have no idea who Paul Kenny is but the agreement has clearly been signed by Mick Rix, a National Officer of the GMB (google him and you will find a whole page of Wikipaedia devoted to his union credentials) and BA's employee relations officer. Sounds to me as if the agreement will stand so we are back to having two unions around the table for crew NSP meetings. Just as before the dispute!
So you have joined a union and you dont know who your General Secretary is ?

Ottergirl I would have expected more of you but then your hate for BASSA is so greater that you dont see anything else.

Anyway, what will you do now that GMB will not represent cabin crew ?
triple x is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2012, 18:24
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: M3 usually!
Posts: 492
I was more interested in who the reps were when I joined since it is them who will directly impact on my life! As far as I know the GMB are still representing several hundred cabin crew and therefore me but if that changes I will have to go back to before and manage without a union.

You are mistaken if you think I hate BASSA, not at all. BASSA is the collective name for a union of many thousands of my colleagues and over the years I have found that I like almost all of them! It would be truer to say that I don't agree with the way a couple of the current elected representatives do business which is simply why I have not been a member for the past 15 years. Additionally, I also have immense respect for most of the Fleet reps, I think they do their best in a difficult job and walk a thin line trying to please everyone - not a job I would want!
ottergirl is offline  
Old 1st May 2012, 02:18
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 33
Dingdong over GMB? Who are the idiots?

What I find quite incredible is that the BASSA membership fall for the same old con trick time and time again!

There is no GMB agreement it was some rogue manager just cooking it up on his own - when there is a clear agreement signed by GMB and BA IR manager plain for all to see.


There is a secret deal done with BASSA but we can't tell anyone anything about it - the same old same old.


Cabin crew WAKE UP you are being treated like fools by this bunch of idiots.
Actually I agree with Ottergirl, I don’t think either they or Betty Girl ‘hate’ BASSA. I believe they are victims of an aggressive smear campaign during our dispute, which saw not only our Union but our Cabin Crew community turned into objects of ‘hate’. At times, I wondered if being a member of a Trade Union had been criminalised.

As TightSlot points out, this is not ‘The BASSA Forum’, neither is it ‘The Anti-BASSA Forum’!

Post settlement, it has been an uphill struggle to rebuild pride in our profession and our Brand but commitment and hard work by both our Leadership Team and BASSA has taken us into new territory and opened the door to an exciting new era, as the Business Experience Programme unleashes the passion and creativity that carried Cabin Crew through the dispute.

Some of the most passionate strikers are the most ardent advocates in building bridges and putting our business back where it belongs, at the forefront on the global stage. So why do some who crusaded against BASSA under the ‘Backing BA’ banner now undermine our positive efforts with continued sneers and innuendoes?

You cut sad figures, not unlike the Japanese soldiers post WWII who roamed the jungles unable to accept the war was over.

So successful has our honourable negotiated settlement been, IFCE management have celebrated by recognising our right to belong to a Trade Union and permitted us to use BASSA luggage labels on our hand luggage.

The unfinished business of our dispute has finally been satisfactorily resolved and I can confirm the minutes from the last BASSA Branch meeting are an accurate reflection of what took place. Our detractors accused us of being ‘serial fantasists’ during the dispute but it is THEY who can not handle the truth.

Curioser and curioser, the BA Cabin Crew section on the GMB website has made like the Cheshire Cat and disappeared, leaving the 500 Mixed Fleet in Unite grinning from ear to ear as, quiet as the dormouse, they prepare to launch their own branch – our new baby is growing up!

Meanwhile, Paul Kenny is probably mad as a hatter and unlikely to be throwing any tea parties for those responsible for the embarrassing faux pas.

Do I hear the chilling sound of an axe being sharpened carried on the refreshing winds of change that are sweeping through the corridors of power, accompanied by the cry ‘Off with their heads’?

I suggest the Bassbashers stop behaving like Tweedledee and Tweedledum, synergy will impact on us all and it is time to concentrate on the challenges facing your own community. Fortunately with synergy comes opportunity too but obsessing over a non existent war with BASSA will side line you, while others seize the moment.

I end this post in the spirit of the personal message that Len McCluskey sent to the members of BASSA that suggest that far from ‘not being flavour of the month’ with the TUC, we are tastier than unami as a Central Fund of £25million has been set up to support branches in dispute, following feedback from our dispute.

To Fly. To Serve.
With Dignity and Respect.


The postings made by Dingbaticus, proud Bassanista are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions.

Last edited by Dingbaticus; 1st May 2012 at 02:33. Reason: To add a figure even more amazing than mine.
Dingbaticus is offline  
Old 1st May 2012, 09:25
  #78 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 178
Curioser and curioser, the BA Cabin Crew section on the GMB website has made like the Cheshire Cat and disappeared
I don't think that's right it's here:

Home

And here:

gmbinba.org – For GMB members in British Airways – Your Trade Union Voice
mrpony is offline  
Old 1st May 2012, 14:33
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 33
Remember, Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall!


What a mad party this is becoming, with the storms brewing in tea cups likely to cause a few heads to roll.

I stand corrected Mr Pony and thank you for it, as I decided to turn ‘Dingdetective’ and do a little digging.

I called the number on the GMB Cabin Crew website and spoke to one of the Reps involved. Their branch was started in good faith but even he was surprised at the haste, worthy of the White Rabbit, in which they were awarded sole representation of Mixed Fleet.

It appears that haste caused rules to be broken; the BASSA branch has sturdy roots and those clutching their invitations to the GMB tripped and fell down a legal loop hole!

The Rep stated they are currently in limbo, unsure if they can step through the looking glass to a brave new world or come back to earth in ours with a bump - their intentions are potentially as dead as the Dodo. I wonder who the Knave of Hearts is in this story, for they will surely lose their position if not their head.

Meanwhile Red King Len is delighted with the enthusiasm shown towards giving Mixed Fleet collective representation and Legacy Fleet are planning more than a tea party to welcome them, although Vintage Krug is a bit fanciful for our tastes. Pimms at Bedfont always seems to go down well!

The postings made by Dingbaticus, proud Bassanista are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions.
Dingbaticus is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.