Hug a pilot...BA
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Hug a pilot...BA
"It transpires at SEP on the first day, BA have now introduced how to interact and socialise with the "Pilot community".
The session includes pre, during and post flight interaction, you will now be advised it's inappropriate and bad mannered not to include everyone on the crew and pilots whilst socialising in the bar or dinner down route."
The session includes pre, during and post flight interaction, you will now be advised it's inappropriate and bad mannered not to include everyone on the crew and pilots whilst socialising in the bar or dinner down route."
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To be fair in BA alot needs to be learnt. Can't be a bad thing that is unless it's the same old dragons teaching the same old bitter anti "one team" ethos.
"Why can't we all just get along"
"Why can't we all just get along"
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Whats actually being taught in an ever so gentle way, is that if you dont engage as part of the team and the chain of command then dont expect to be part of the team. More to come on this with formalised briefing etc too.
Mixed fleet and LGW wont need this training. Just some elements at LHR.
Mixed fleet and LGW wont need this training. Just some elements at LHR.
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BA have now introduced how to interact and socialise with the "Pilot community"
Rocket science it ain't.
t's inappropriate and bad mannered not to include everyone on the crew and pilots whilst socialising in the bar or dinner down route."
Don't the pilots stay at 'grander' hotels these days? Wow BALPA have come down in my estimation!!!!
Coincidentally I’ve recently been asked about ‘crew relations’ by some old ( in both senses of the word ! ) friends, and made the following comments – before I read this thread.
When I joined BOAC the captain never stayed in the same hotel as the rest of the crew, and had his own transport to the different abode as well. This meant that the co-pilot and engineer and radio office and navigator were much more integrated with the cabin crew as one entity, and there was little animosity between the two groups, the captains rarely spoke to anyone anyway, even their co-pilot, so it didn't really matter, and as a sprog navigator I was berated because I dared to address the co-pilot by his Christian name ! " We do NOT use Christian names on the Flt. Deck, MR XXX
Later the policy changed and the flight deck all moved to the same Hotel as the captain, which in my opinion was the start of the major gulf between cabin crew and flight deck; leaving our 'posh' hotel in Toronto one night - some may remember the Park Plaza, near that delectable eating establishment The Chicken Chalet - we bought some beer and took it to the crew party room (a room often set aside in hotels to prevent their guest rooms getting trashed by over enthusiastic crew ) in some hotel down Yonge St. to which we had been invited by one of our own cabin crew, but as we entered, the chief steward of another crew also present advised us that this was a cabin crew party and we were not welcome. I pointed out that at least we had bought our own beer and weren't drinking company liquor that they had taken from the First Class Bar, and had been invited by our own girls, who were prettier than his - and we walked out.
It was all downhill from that time, but of course I am going back 30 years, so who knows what happens today.
Just thought you might be interested.
Ex Flight deck.
When I joined BOAC the captain never stayed in the same hotel as the rest of the crew, and had his own transport to the different abode as well. This meant that the co-pilot and engineer and radio office and navigator were much more integrated with the cabin crew as one entity, and there was little animosity between the two groups, the captains rarely spoke to anyone anyway, even their co-pilot, so it didn't really matter, and as a sprog navigator I was berated because I dared to address the co-pilot by his Christian name ! " We do NOT use Christian names on the Flt. Deck, MR XXX
Later the policy changed and the flight deck all moved to the same Hotel as the captain, which in my opinion was the start of the major gulf between cabin crew and flight deck; leaving our 'posh' hotel in Toronto one night - some may remember the Park Plaza, near that delectable eating establishment The Chicken Chalet - we bought some beer and took it to the crew party room (a room often set aside in hotels to prevent their guest rooms getting trashed by over enthusiastic crew ) in some hotel down Yonge St. to which we had been invited by one of our own cabin crew, but as we entered, the chief steward of another crew also present advised us that this was a cabin crew party and we were not welcome. I pointed out that at least we had bought our own beer and weren't drinking company liquor that they had taken from the First Class Bar, and had been invited by our own girls, who were prettier than his - and we walked out.
It was all downhill from that time, but of course I am going back 30 years, so who knows what happens today.
Just thought you might be interested.
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I feel it is totally innapropriate to post a small section of what BASSA actually published. Below is the FULL version!
"It transpires at SEP on the first day, BA have now introduced how to
interact and socialise with the "Pilot community".
The session includes pre, during and post flight interaction, you will now
be advised it's inappropriate and bad mannered not to include everyone on
the crew and pilots whilst socialising in the bar or dinner down route.
Isn't it remarkable that grown adults see the need to use up resourceful
time in SEP to enforce socialising with each other. Will they also offer
to pay for our lobster and brandies whilst out dining?
It is a shame a large swathe of our flight deck "colleagues" didn't
consider the long-term impact when they volunteered to do our jobs while
we participated in legal strike action to protect our futures.
Remember you are under absolutely no obligation to mix with these people
if you are off-duty and, if managers continue to be oblivious to the utter
disgust and contempt at the back stabbing and betrayal that went on last
year, then quite simply they should not be managers of people."
"These people"? My bold... Perhaps it hasn't occured to them that pilots often prefer to not go out with crew as there is this assumption that pilots should buy a round - totally ignoring the fact that in BA many crew earn more than many pilots.
"It transpires at SEP on the first day, BA have now introduced how to
interact and socialise with the "Pilot community".
The session includes pre, during and post flight interaction, you will now
be advised it's inappropriate and bad mannered not to include everyone on
the crew and pilots whilst socialising in the bar or dinner down route.
Isn't it remarkable that grown adults see the need to use up resourceful
time in SEP to enforce socialising with each other. Will they also offer
to pay for our lobster and brandies whilst out dining?
It is a shame a large swathe of our flight deck "colleagues" didn't
consider the long-term impact when they volunteered to do our jobs while
we participated in legal strike action to protect our futures.
Remember you are under absolutely no obligation to mix with these people
if you are off-duty and, if managers continue to be oblivious to the utter
disgust and contempt at the back stabbing and betrayal that went on last
year, then quite simply they should not be managers of people."
"These people"? My bold... Perhaps it hasn't occured to them that pilots often prefer to not go out with crew as there is this assumption that pilots should buy a round - totally ignoring the fact that in BA many crew earn more than many pilots.
you are under absolutely no obligation to mix with these people
if you are off-duty
if you are off-duty
If people wanted to drink/eat together then they did, if not, then they did their own thing.
"Hug a pilot" indeed! You don't know where it's been. (yeah, yeah, I know; you do, and that's the problem
)Hope we're all happy campers on the 9 on Thu
I was around in the days of Captains staying in separate hotels. However I don't remember Flight Crew being excluded from room parties at all.
In fact I very well remember the 'chaps' bring fresh supplies to the bash.
I also have great memories of pilots arranging activities for all such as going sailing, hiring cars (and mini buses) for trips out, going on a light aircraft flight with them flying usually arranged at the room party.
I thought this nonsense would stop by now but sadly some people would make their own life a misery just to take it out on the 'perceived enemy'.
please............
In fact I very well remember the 'chaps' bring fresh supplies to the bash.
I also have great memories of pilots arranging activities for all such as going sailing, hiring cars (and mini buses) for trips out, going on a light aircraft flight with them flying usually arranged at the room party.
I thought this nonsense would stop by now but sadly some people would make their own life a misery just to take it out on the 'perceived enemy'.
please............
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It is a shame a large swathe of our flight deck "colleagues" didn't
consider the long-term impact when they volunteered to do our jobs while
we participated in legal strike action to protect our futures.
consider the long-term impact when they volunteered to do our jobs while
we participated in legal strike action to protect our futures.
Might it be suggested that the flight deck were indeed concerned for the long term security of all BA's employees? That is why, together with admin, ground staff, engineers and loaders they sought to mitigate the actions of some selfish and out of touch CC.
Oh dear the same old vindictive BASSA Reps survive!
It is an unfortunate fact that a sizable minority of Lhr based cabin crew,LH and Eurofleet, perpetuate this anti team/flight crew attitude. Until natural wastage etc. removes them from the cabin crew comunity nothing much will change, also, often reflected in their attitude to their passenger customers.
Refreshingly Gatwick and Mixed fleet crew are almost unfailingly courteous and friendly to spend your day working and socialising.
It is an unfortunate fact that a sizable minority of Lhr based cabin crew,LH and Eurofleet, perpetuate this anti team/flight crew attitude. Until natural wastage etc. removes them from the cabin crew comunity nothing much will change, also, often reflected in their attitude to their passenger customers.
Refreshingly Gatwick and Mixed fleet crew are almost unfailingly courteous and friendly to spend your day working and socialising.
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BASSA is right that we are under no obligation to mix with certain people downroute. It's our own free time and we can do whatever we like with anyone we like. BA cannot tell us as to whom we should and should not interact and socialise with on layovers.
Respecting the chain of command is another issue. The captain is the captain, yes. The first officer is the first officer, yes. Just because I prefer to be with somebody else downroute doesn't mean that I'm disrescepecting them or the chain of command.
Respecting the chain of command is another issue. The captain is the captain, yes. The first officer is the first officer, yes. Just because I prefer to be with somebody else downroute doesn't mean that I'm disrescepecting them or the chain of command.
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Looks like the same old miserable BASSA haridans stroking their egoes by telling themselves pilots care whether they come out downroute. Personally most pilots I know prefer it when they don't as it means we can eat in a decent restaurant without whinging about the cost, we don't get our ears bashed about how terrible Mixed Fleet are, we don't have to subsidise their drinks when we're on the local beer and they are on imported wine and you can split the bill at the end of the night without finding someones not paid. Still, it's interesting that BA have realised the BASSA hardcore need instruction in how to behave in a civilised manner.
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Miss M
I think your post sets out the position exactly. I suggest that this is what BA are seeking. The manager (Captain?) of any group of people will usually get more out of them if they adopt an approachable demeanor and a friendly attitude. However this does not necessarily mean constant social contact. The successful manager will strive to get the mix right.
vctenderness ......... the incident I referred to only happened to me once in such a noticeable fashion, and yes, I too took cabin crew flying, played golf, sailing etc. if the opportunity arose, but when I occasionally popped my head around the door of the crew briefing room in the old Terminal 3 reporting office as I departed for the aircraft, and said Hi Gang ! or words to that effect, I was clearly stepping into restricted territory and was not welcomed - so I stopped doing that.
As to Flt. deck being expected to buy a round of drinks ..... in the days when we stayed in the old Pan Am resthouse in Trinidad, before the Upside Down Hilton was built, one of our Captains was chatting up a young PanAm stewardess in the bar, and she offered to pay for the next drink, he demurred, being an "Older Gentleman" - some were - and besides, he said, I earn more than you. Do you ? she replied, so they started counting, he said he did, but only just ! ( Circa. 1958.)
Strats. Were The Days.
Cheers
As to Flt. deck being expected to buy a round of drinks ..... in the days when we stayed in the old Pan Am resthouse in Trinidad, before the Upside Down Hilton was built, one of our Captains was chatting up a young PanAm stewardess in the bar, and she offered to pay for the next drink, he demurred, being an "Older Gentleman" - some were - and besides, he said, I earn more than you. Do you ? she replied, so they started counting, he said he did, but only just ! ( Circa. 1958.)
Strats. Were The Days.
Cheers
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As usual, this thread is full of the same bitter posters on both sides of the devide.
I very much doubt that BA is asking anyone to go out and eat with each other, let alone hug a pilot! Exaggeration is always fun and reprinting it and moaning about misinformation is even more fun, for some on here.
I have found that most cabin crew and pilots still go out together as we always have, well on my flights we do! I have also had many pilots saying how hard it is to go out with Mixed Fleet crew because they spend most of the time talking about how poor they are and the pilots feel obliged to pay for their drinks!
I can well imagine why some posters on here find it hard to get the opposite group to go out for a drink with them and it probably relates to the fact that you seem to hate each other intensely.
Luckily there are many normal cabin crew and many normal pilots out there in the real world and most of us get on fine!
I very much doubt that BA is asking anyone to go out and eat with each other, let alone hug a pilot! Exaggeration is always fun and reprinting it and moaning about misinformation is even more fun, for some on here.
I have found that most cabin crew and pilots still go out together as we always have, well on my flights we do! I have also had many pilots saying how hard it is to go out with Mixed Fleet crew because they spend most of the time talking about how poor they are and the pilots feel obliged to pay for their drinks!
I can well imagine why some posters on here find it hard to get the opposite group to go out for a drink with them and it probably relates to the fact that you seem to hate each other intensely.
Luckily there are many normal cabin crew and many normal pilots out there in the real world and most of us get on fine!
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I think it just boils down to common sense and good manners surely, that it's polite when you get to your hotel if the entire crew down the back have organised to go out that you quickly mention it to the guys the other side of the flight deck door. Most will probably say "no" anyway, as they have their own plans or might even not be the sociable type, but the fact you've offered goes a long way in promoting CRM.
For example, my most recent European "tour" included a night in a city I used to live in. Cue hysteria in the briefing telling people of lots of lovely places to go, and that even if they didn't want to come, I was off! Flight crew were invited and although they didn't come for the day trip, we all had dinner together and all paid our own way. It just created a really nice and relaxed environment, which extended to the following day at work.
I understand there's a lot of deep rooted issues amongst people on both sides of the flight deck door from before I joined the airline, but I always find harboring grudges gives me ulcers. Would much rather have a sympathetic ear and a chat around the CRC or on the staff bus with anyone, regardless of job, fleet or rank and it makes me a lot happier to come to work (even when you're right Betty, the money can be quite tight!)
For example, my most recent European "tour" included a night in a city I used to live in. Cue hysteria in the briefing telling people of lots of lovely places to go, and that even if they didn't want to come, I was off! Flight crew were invited and although they didn't come for the day trip, we all had dinner together and all paid our own way. It just created a really nice and relaxed environment, which extended to the following day at work.
I understand there's a lot of deep rooted issues amongst people on both sides of the flight deck door from before I joined the airline, but I always find harboring grudges gives me ulcers. Would much rather have a sympathetic ear and a chat around the CRC or on the staff bus with anyone, regardless of job, fleet or rank and it makes me a lot happier to come to work (even when you're right Betty, the money can be quite tight!)
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What a sad reflection on the state of a company this thread is, having worked for BA years back as an aircraft engineer I can remember being treated by SOME of the cabin crew as if I was a dog turd on their shoe but in this day and age I would have expected this attitude to have been long gone.
It is apparent that in some quarters this attitude persists, one can't help feeling pity for those who have such a narrow outlook on life that they feel they have to act in such a way. I can't help feeling that this attitude resulted in the decision to take strike action when BA was in a state if financial crisis, just about every other group of BA employees took some sort of hit in pay or conditions of service for the well being of the company and to secure their future employment and yet BASSA who represent the best paid cabin crew in the industry ( if not the world) would not give an inch.
I can only thank my luck that I fly for an airline were a night stop is seen as a chance for all the crew to have some fun and were the childish attitude of BASSA illustrated above on this thread has not even been considered.
It is apparent that in some quarters this attitude persists, one can't help feeling pity for those who have such a narrow outlook on life that they feel they have to act in such a way. I can't help feeling that this attitude resulted in the decision to take strike action when BA was in a state if financial crisis, just about every other group of BA employees took some sort of hit in pay or conditions of service for the well being of the company and to secure their future employment and yet BASSA who represent the best paid cabin crew in the industry ( if not the world) would not give an inch.
I can only thank my luck that I fly for an airline were a night stop is seen as a chance for all the crew to have some fun and were the childish attitude of BASSA illustrated above on this thread has not even been considered.