Roster Patterns?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: DUB
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Roster Patterns?
Hi all,
Looking for information from other crew about your typical roster pattern.. for example do you work a fixed pattern of working 4\5\6 days on followed by 2\3\4 days off. Do you combine shorthaul with Longhaul? Do you get your days off together or can they be split days off?
Our current rosters, despite using a online bidding system spew out a mix of 6 days in a row of earlies\lates or very long earlies (after days iff) leading into lates followed possibly by a longhaul usually broken up by split days (1 day off per week, extra day possibly allocated the following week). Basically we can be rostered any random pattern that loosely borders on the "technically" legal under FTL.
This is a allegedly "state of the art" rostering designed for a ideal work\life balance (
)..
Just curious what happens at other airlines and how you find it?
Looking for information from other crew about your typical roster pattern.. for example do you work a fixed pattern of working 4\5\6 days on followed by 2\3\4 days off. Do you combine shorthaul with Longhaul? Do you get your days off together or can they be split days off?
Our current rosters, despite using a online bidding system spew out a mix of 6 days in a row of earlies\lates or very long earlies (after days iff) leading into lates followed possibly by a longhaul usually broken up by split days (1 day off per week, extra day possibly allocated the following week). Basically we can be rostered any random pattern that loosely borders on the "technically" legal under FTL.
This is a allegedly "state of the art" rostering designed for a ideal work\life balance (
)..Just curious what happens at other airlines and how you find it?
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Marseille
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I work for AF on the European Fleet and we have 14 days off a month.we usually work 5 consecutive days, exceptionally 6 and get 2 days after our working block.At some point during the month we have 6 consecutive days off.
We bid for 1 trip a month which is worth a certain number of points (depending on popularity), for example a nice easy trip during the week may cost 5 points and hard trip during the week end may be 2 points. We get 100 points per year + 1.5 extra points per seniority year. So if you've been with AF for 10 years you would get 115 points/year to spend on your bidding.What's more we also bid for the date on which we want our block of 6 days off to start and we get 48 vacation days per year.
We bid for 1 trip a month which is worth a certain number of points (depending on popularity), for example a nice easy trip during the week may cost 5 points and hard trip during the week end may be 2 points. We get 100 points per year + 1.5 extra points per seniority year. So if you've been with AF for 10 years you would get 115 points/year to spend on your bidding.What's more we also bid for the date on which we want our block of 6 days off to start and we get 48 vacation days per year.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That AF roster sounds amazing.
I work for BA on short-haul ( Eurofleet) and I am on the old, so called, good contract.
We bid for our work although some choose to work on a six on three off pattern. Those of us that bid get 10 days off per month and we bid for these days. The only criteria is that the bid has to be legal so one day off after 7 days work and two consecutive days off in fourteen.
We get 32-36 days leave a year.
On long-haul (Worldwide), they trigger either two day off or three days after a trip with a time change of over 6 hours and after a long range trip like say HongKong, they trigger four days off. They get similar leave, I think 32-36 days but nothing compared to you!
Our new crew on the new Mixed fleet get just 9 days off per month and if they take leave off in a month their days off get reduced! They also don't automatically trigger any days off after long-haul flights if the time change is less than six hours but they can bid for their days off. They do a mixture of long-haul and short haul and can do a set short haul work prior to a long haul flight and some long haul flights can be directly followed by a flight with no days off such as Nairobi could be followed by a St. Petersburg the next day!!Don't know how much leave they get but I do know if they take more than four days in a month, they get some of their days off taken away. BA also can use their leave as rest between flights!!
Looks like you have a great deal on AF and you get paid better too. Lucky you.
I work for BA on short-haul ( Eurofleet) and I am on the old, so called, good contract.
We bid for our work although some choose to work on a six on three off pattern. Those of us that bid get 10 days off per month and we bid for these days. The only criteria is that the bid has to be legal so one day off after 7 days work and two consecutive days off in fourteen.
We get 32-36 days leave a year.
On long-haul (Worldwide), they trigger either two day off or three days after a trip with a time change of over 6 hours and after a long range trip like say HongKong, they trigger four days off. They get similar leave, I think 32-36 days but nothing compared to you!
Our new crew on the new Mixed fleet get just 9 days off per month and if they take leave off in a month their days off get reduced! They also don't automatically trigger any days off after long-haul flights if the time change is less than six hours but they can bid for their days off. They do a mixture of long-haul and short haul and can do a set short haul work prior to a long haul flight and some long haul flights can be directly followed by a flight with no days off such as Nairobi could be followed by a St. Petersburg the next day!!Don't know how much leave they get but I do know if they take more than four days in a month, they get some of their days off taken away. BA also can use their leave as rest between flights!!
Looks like you have a great deal on AF and you get paid better too. Lucky you.
Last edited by Betty girl; 20th May 2011 at 12:15.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Marseille
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh la la!
Betty Girl
Your roster seem to be a lot of hard work.I have a few friends who work at BA and their crew rotations seem to be easier than us, but I am not sure I would enjoy having so few days off.
What we do at AF is very tiring when we are at work because we can operate up to 10 flights in a 3 day trip (3/4/3) but we get a lot of rest at home.From what my friends tell me the flight attendants hired after 1997 at BA are on a very low base pay but have very good per diem when they are at work. That's why they don't mind being at work so often.
If they had a system like ours it would mean they would lose a lot of per diem and I understand it would be financially very difficult for them to live with their basic salary and less per diem. Is that so?
Your roster seem to be a lot of hard work.I have a few friends who work at BA and their crew rotations seem to be easier than us, but I am not sure I would enjoy having so few days off.
What we do at AF is very tiring when we are at work because we can operate up to 10 flights in a 3 day trip (3/4/3) but we get a lot of rest at home.From what my friends tell me the flight attendants hired after 1997 at BA are on a very low base pay but have very good per diem when they are at work. That's why they don't mind being at work so often.
If they had a system like ours it would mean they would lose a lot of per diem and I understand it would be financially very difficult for them to live with their basic salary and less per diem. Is that so?
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well on E/F we can do long days of 12 hours but sometimes we could just do 8 or 7 hours but we also have 3 day trips with a 3/2/3 pattern or a two day trip 3/3 and these days with 3 sectors would average at about 11 hours or 11.30. So on balance we do work quite hard but we dont have any 3/4/3 trips!
Anyway, thank you for sharing your rosters, it's very interesting to hear how other crew work. I think our E/F crew work very hard but although our W/W crew work hard too and seem to get less days off than AF or KLM for example, it is our new Mixed Fleet crew that work the hardest!
Anyway, thank you for sharing your rosters, it's very interesting to hear how other crew work. I think our E/F crew work very hard but although our W/W crew work hard too and seem to get less days off than AF or KLM for example, it is our new Mixed Fleet crew that work the hardest!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MIDDLE EAST
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lucky you guys don't fly for Emirates. CC here work, on average, 110 - 125 hours every month. Most months you'll get 8 days off. Some 7, rarely 9. You may land back from a JNB at 0500 after a 24 hour layover and find yourself getting up again that night to check in for a 0300 Indian turnround!
Mind you, they have just had a whopping pay rise after the Company announced record profits. I think it worked out at an extra 24 euros......a month. Oh, and that was for Pursers by the way!
Keep discovering. Or should that be, keep recovering!
Harry
Mind you, they have just had a whopping pay rise after the Company announced record profits. I think it worked out at an extra 24 euros......a month. Oh, and that was for Pursers by the way!
Keep discovering. Or should that be, keep recovering!
Harry
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: AROUND AND ABOUT
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Isn't it amazing how different all airlines are. The Emirates rosters sound a nightmare. At BA, I'm thinking of one crew member we had on Eurofleet, who because of the IR problems we have had, applied and got a job for Emirates. They are in for a REAL shock I can tell you.
As for AF. Wow. 14 days off a month + 48!!! leave days a year. Is that for real - 48 vacation days/year. Unbelievable. We have crew on a 75% contract who work MORE days throughout the year than that. They get 14days off/month + around 26-28 'vacation' days/year
As for AF. Wow. 14 days off a month + 48!!! leave days a year. Is that for real - 48 vacation days/year. Unbelievable. We have crew on a 75% contract who work MORE days throughout the year than that. They get 14days off/month + around 26-28 'vacation' days/year
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
14 days off a month + 48!!! leave days a year.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hmmmmm, Ryanair
Flying for Ryanair, 5 days earlies/2 OFF, 5x lates/3 OFF plus last year I have passed Cabin Service Supervisor training and since than flying on regular basis as a No1 without any permanent contract (any payment of course) 20 days Annual Leave per Year... yupeeee 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paul
Thats flying hours duty will be a lot more. In the UK CC are limited to 100 flying hours like the Pilots if my memory serves me this is the working time directive, not CAP371 (UK FTL limits)
With respect (on the subject of leave and days off) I suspect as the first two posters were AF and BA anything else is going to be downhill unless other state airlines comment such as lufthansa
In answer to original question very few Airlines have "fixed" days off patterns and are normally "flexi".
Thats flying hours duty will be a lot more. In the UK CC are limited to 100 flying hours like the Pilots if my memory serves me this is the working time directive, not CAP371 (UK FTL limits)
With respect (on the subject of leave and days off) I suspect as the first two posters were AF and BA anything else is going to be downhill unless other state airlines comment such as lufthansa
In answer to original question very few Airlines have "fixed" days off patterns and are normally "flexi".
Last edited by Mr Angry from Purley; 25th May 2011 at 07:59. Reason: added more
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
S-Crewed
Sorry me again, looks like your roster is built to sub part Q rules because of your comment about the single day off after 7 days. Sub Part Q requires a period free of duty of 36 hrs and including 2 local nights after 168 hrs (so 7 days off). Is this standard type rostering or are you for example short of crew?
What happened before sub part q came in?. What Crewing system do you use - AIMS? - Are you contracted to certain amount of leave / days off in a year etc etc
From the outside looks a bit of a mess but that's Airline life these days
Sorry me again, looks like your roster is built to sub part Q rules because of your comment about the single day off after 7 days. Sub Part Q requires a period free of duty of 36 hrs and including 2 local nights after 168 hrs (so 7 days off). Is this standard type rostering or are you for example short of crew?
What happened before sub part q came in?. What Crewing system do you use - AIMS? - Are you contracted to certain amount of leave / days off in a year etc etc
From the outside looks a bit of a mess but that's Airline life these days
Join Date: May 2011
Location: italy
Age: 45
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lufthansa here!
We all fly a mix of short and long haul, can bid for your trips and it's not unusual to get 100% of your bids if you put them wisely (bkk, sin, hgk are always a risk
We have 4 consecutive days off every month that cannot be changed.
SH: we work hard, up to 5 days that can be 5-4-4-4-3 (but no one would bid for that, they are quite rare). after that u have 3 days off, otherwise if you fly like 2/3 days you have just 2 days off.
LH: East coast triggers generally 2 days off, west coast 4 days off, eze or the long bkk/sin 5 days off, so you can easily commute.
You have to have 10 days free per month, but usually u get around 12 to 16.
42 leave days a year, many part time options (50%, 75%, up to 6 free months and so on), good atmosphere at work and with "your boss".
6 bases to choose from: Frankfurt, Munich, Duesseldorf, Berlin, Hamburg and Stuttgart, although the last three are hard to get as they only fly sh and Lufthansa needs more people for the longhaul.
Hope I could give a useful description of our lovely Lufti
We all fly a mix of short and long haul, can bid for your trips and it's not unusual to get 100% of your bids if you put them wisely (bkk, sin, hgk are always a risk
We have 4 consecutive days off every month that cannot be changed.
SH: we work hard, up to 5 days that can be 5-4-4-4-3 (but no one would bid for that, they are quite rare). after that u have 3 days off, otherwise if you fly like 2/3 days you have just 2 days off.
LH: East coast triggers generally 2 days off, west coast 4 days off, eze or the long bkk/sin 5 days off, so you can easily commute.
You have to have 10 days free per month, but usually u get around 12 to 16.
42 leave days a year, many part time options (50%, 75%, up to 6 free months and so on), good atmosphere at work and with "your boss".
6 bases to choose from: Frankfurt, Munich, Duesseldorf, Berlin, Hamburg and Stuttgart, although the last three are hard to get as they only fly sh and Lufthansa needs more people for the longhaul.
Hope I could give a useful description of our lovely Lufti
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: north
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Emirates rosters aren't that bad. We never ever get close to minimum rest between flights, always get consecutive days off (sometimes 5 + ) and have a fairly good bidding system and an excellent swapping system. Also the flights are overly crewed so we can offer a more premium service, resulting in less work onboard for each crew member, and yes not only did we just get a pay rise we also got a 12 week bonus. How many other airlines give you 3 months salary just to say thanks ??? If you think Emirates is tough, then try working for a european loco and you'll soon see !
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand both rosters and contracts in British Airways Mixed Fleet are currently under review and within a few days a payrise will be announced to match the market rate at LHR as the fleet keeps on growing. We will soon find out..
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Land Down Under
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Qantas LH Rosters
Our rostering system is a seniority preferential bid system~Carmen.
Its is a 56 day roster where you must have a minimum of 18 rostered days off.
Standown is 50 % of the length of the completed trip.Rule of thumb 5 days off after a 10 day regional trip.5 days off after an 8 day LHR trip which is considered an arduous duty.
Rostered hours are between 183 and 199 hours typically.Carmen has been with us for two years with 60% of CC unhappy with roster generation
Its is a 56 day roster where you must have a minimum of 18 rostered days off.
Standown is 50 % of the length of the completed trip.Rule of thumb 5 days off after a 10 day regional trip.5 days off after an 8 day LHR trip which is considered an arduous duty.
Rostered hours are between 183 and 199 hours typically.Carmen has been with us for two years with 60% of CC unhappy with roster generation
