BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well it doesn't look like the striking has achieved much! Some highlights from the offer are:
Staff travel back with seniority (no surprises there)
Independent arbitration for uncompleted disciplinary cases (Note: uncompleted)
Box and B2B payments made contractual (a new offer, but no meal allowances)
Independent review of which routes go to MF (always been promised)
End of VCC scheme (was always likely to happen)
Corporate pay rise.
BASSA to return to T5 offices with new facilities agreements (Note: new)
BUT.......
Imposition still stands.
Mixed Fleet to remain.
So it seems after 18 months of dispute BASSA have indeed only managed to negotiate themselves back to where they were before the strikes. Well done Duncan (who, notably, was not involved in the negotiations).
Staff travel back with seniority (no surprises there)
Independent arbitration for uncompleted disciplinary cases (Note: uncompleted)
Box and B2B payments made contractual (a new offer, but no meal allowances)
Independent review of which routes go to MF (always been promised)
End of VCC scheme (was always likely to happen)
Corporate pay rise.
BASSA to return to T5 offices with new facilities agreements (Note: new)
BUT.......
Imposition still stands.
Mixed Fleet to remain.
So it seems after 18 months of dispute BASSA have indeed only managed to negotiate themselves back to where they were before the strikes. Well done Duncan (who, notably, was not involved in the negotiations).
Last edited by Yellow Pen; 12th May 2011 at 11:38.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: on boeings finest
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank goodness the end seems in sight 
Many still don't like the fact the mid fleet is still going to be a stand alone fleet and will continue to take routes.
The pay rise for the next 2 years is split into 2 parts for this year its 2.9% and BA/BASSA need to agree further savings for the uplift of an addition 1.1%, 2012 is 3% with an additional .5% if further savings are made.
The guarantees around box payments etc, appear to some as being "very woolly" (not my words)
There is also conflicting information around the sacked and suspended.
All in all the Cabin Crew are back to where they were in March 2010 before Len and Duncan rushed them headlong into a strike, which has achieved nothing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well done everybody, you've all done very well.
2 years later, we all hate each other. Nothings been won. It's cost both sides alot (financial and people wise). Friendships have been broken. Cars scratched. People sworn and spat at. Pax journeys/holidays ruined. And those stupid 'steamed' windows on the buses.
The only winners are the legal teams on both sides.
Learning points: Never go legal and always negotiate a reasonable solution early. (That advice applies to ALL Unions)
Oh well, tomorrow is another day. Lets get back to looking after the punters and remember that they do have choices so lets all smile.
2 years later, we all hate each other. Nothings been won. It's cost both sides alot (financial and people wise). Friendships have been broken. Cars scratched. People sworn and spat at. Pax journeys/holidays ruined. And those stupid 'steamed' windows on the buses.
The only winners are the legal teams on both sides.
Learning points: Never go legal and always negotiate a reasonable solution early. (That advice applies to ALL Unions)
Oh well, tomorrow is another day. Lets get back to looking after the punters and remember that they do have choices so lets all smile.
Does anyone know how many 'uncompleted' disciplinary cases there are, still ongoing? These are apparently the only cases that will be subject to an 'external review' process. Those involved shouldn't think this will be an automatic stay of execution.
With regards to staff travel, Unite has acknowledged that its working relationship with BA has to be modernised. Only once that relationship is "fully implemented" will KW then recommend to the BA Board the full restoration of staff travel concessions to the strikers i.e that isn't going to happen overnight!
With regards to staff travel, Unite has acknowledged that its working relationship with BA has to be modernised. Only once that relationship is "fully implemented" will KW then recommend to the BA Board the full restoration of staff travel concessions to the strikers i.e that isn't going to happen overnight!
So, a look at just 3 of the items on BASSA's 'unequivocal' list:
It isn't going to be immediate. Unite (and by default, BASSA) have to build a better relationship with BA (and vice versa) before staff travel concessions are returned to strikers. How "immediate" is that?
Nope! Not all cases! Only those cases "uncompleted" will be subject to review. Permanent wave goodbye to all those who have already been dismissed.
This situation will remain as it is - KW has clearly stated that the recruitment of cabin crew at LHR, on different terms and conditions, will continue.
What a victory!
The immediate restoration of staff travel concessions, in full, to the crew from whom they were taken.
Binding arbitration, through ACAS, of all cabin crew disciplinary cases related to the original dispute.
The introduction of mixed fleet on different terms and conditions without agreement with the union.
What a victory!
Which facts are you disputing? Has BASSA been tellling you porkies ..... again? Did they say you would get all, and get it all now? Have you actually read KW's message?
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just had a chat with my manager and they all had a meeting with BF this morning.
What he has said to them is that the deal is very similar to what was offered and signed by many of us already.
Mixed Fleet to stay.
The way we currently trigger allowances to stay. (same )
The way we trigger varriable pay to stay although a guaranteed amount is there as a safeguard.( same )
Promise to do route transfers fairly and routes will move back and forth from time to time. ( same )
Crewing levels to remain as they are now. ( same)
Pay rise to put us in line with our ground colleagues.
The way BA deals with the union is changing radically. One meeting per month instead of the sixteen per month that were happening before the dispute.
Less union reps to be off-lined for union duties and one to cover both fleets. No more of this situation where union reps are off-lined and then pick up the plum trips from their friends. They will be off-lined for a set period and be rostered like the rest of us.
BA gains the ability to make decisions about the product offered without having to have endless meetings with BASSA.
That's more or less what I have been told by my manager, so it is second hand info but is correct as far as I know.
P.S. Just like to say hello to Tiger who I flew with today!!
What he has said to them is that the deal is very similar to what was offered and signed by many of us already.
Mixed Fleet to stay.
The way we currently trigger allowances to stay. (same )
The way we trigger varriable pay to stay although a guaranteed amount is there as a safeguard.( same )
Promise to do route transfers fairly and routes will move back and forth from time to time. ( same )
Crewing levels to remain as they are now. ( same)
Pay rise to put us in line with our ground colleagues.
The way BA deals with the union is changing radically. One meeting per month instead of the sixteen per month that were happening before the dispute.
Less union reps to be off-lined for union duties and one to cover both fleets. No more of this situation where union reps are off-lined and then pick up the plum trips from their friends. They will be off-lined for a set period and be rostered like the rest of us.
BA gains the ability to make decisions about the product offered without having to have endless meetings with BASSA.
That's more or less what I have been told by my manager, so it is second hand info but is correct as far as I know.
P.S. Just like to say hello to Tiger who I flew with today!!
Come on triple x, are you telling me you haven't heard about the fact that all litigation by BASSA and it's followers against BA, be it about staff travel or pay deductions, has to be dropped? And if any individual refuses to drop such litigation, Unite will not fund it? Have they told they that? Yet?
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, it's a victory for BASSA. It must be, I'm told there's a thread on the BASSA forum titled 'Tough luck pilots - you lost'. I'd love to know the fantasy contents of that but last time I checked it wasn't the pilots in dispute. Meanwhile Duncan is trying to rally the troops by saying what they've achieved from the dispute is not tangible or financially significant but dignity, pride and respect. Aaah I see, a moral victory. Well moral victories are for losers. And he still can't bring himself to be honest about the actual deal.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yellow pen,
The funny thing is that the two pilots that I flew with today both were saying that they wished their union had not rolled over so fast in giving a pay cut.
They seemed quite annoyed that they had a pay cut and now cabin crew and all the ground staff were getting pay deals.
Anyway I am happy at the moment but of course I have not read the detail!
Just sad that we have had to live through this last eighteen months to end up with something similar to what was offered back then!!
The funny thing is that the two pilots that I flew with today both were saying that they wished their union had not rolled over so fast in giving a pay cut.
They seemed quite annoyed that they had a pay cut and now cabin crew and all the ground staff were getting pay deals.
Anyway I am happy at the moment but of course I have not read the detail!
Just sad that we have had to live through this last eighteen months to end up with something similar to what was offered back then!!
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: House
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This little game of chess comes to an end and the feeling is it was worth it to stand up to B&H along the way. My union has remained strong and we can hold our heads proud and we will never forget the ones who let us down it's plain to see. I just hope some people like going out on a nightstop alone unlike the BASSA family who have stuck together don't forget to press your chino's for the lonely nightstops just like the last two years.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets be quite clear, BALPA did not 'roll over'.
Flt Ops set a cost savings target, BALPA consulted with the membership as to how best to achieve that saving. Members voted to accept a small pay cut and increase productivity to reach those targets.
We could have just said, we'll all work harder and you can make the bottom 100 pilots redundant. But that's not how we like to do things, hence the pay cut to save pilot jobs.
CC on the other hand lost 1003 of their colleagues through the new onboard complements. Luckily enough wanted to go voluntarily.
Flt Ops set a cost savings target, BALPA consulted with the membership as to how best to achieve that saving. Members voted to accept a small pay cut and increase productivity to reach those targets.
We could have just said, we'll all work harder and you can make the bottom 100 pilots redundant. But that's not how we like to do things, hence the pay cut to save pilot jobs.
CC on the other hand lost 1003 of their colleagues through the new onboard complements. Luckily enough wanted to go voluntarily.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Waterside wonker,
Well over half of us did not strike and if you add in all the pilots too, that puts you and your BASSA friends in the minority.
Is that all you can crow about after eighteen months!?
Fruitbat, it was not my words but those of two pilots on my flight. Only mentioned it because we seem to get a one sided view from our pilots on here and many, although they don't agree with how BASSA handled this whole thing, have some sympathy for the cabin crew and what has been happening to us, whatever side of the BASSA divide we sit!!
Well over half of us did not strike and if you add in all the pilots too, that puts you and your BASSA friends in the minority.
Is that all you can crow about after eighteen months!?
Fruitbat, it was not my words but those of two pilots on my flight. Only mentioned it because we seem to get a one sided view from our pilots on here and many, although they don't agree with how BASSA handled this whole thing, have some sympathy for the cabin crew and what has been happening to us, whatever side of the BASSA divide we sit!!