BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Maybe flying but with empty planes and oil at $115 p/b or more.
The sad fact is that the last BASSA action was inconsequential and this one will undoubtably be even less consequential. The reasoning is wrong, the timing is wrong and there is, outside of the BASSA hardcore and the SWP, no support for the IA.
Enjoy Bedfont, we'll wave as we takeoff from 09R.
At least the weather is more clement now that the inconvienient spectre of a winter strike has been 'slipped'.
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Miss M
We went on strike because of the principle of imposition
We are facing a management with a set agenda
A bidding system? It should have been introduced years ago, not when we are working on a shrinking fleet losing destinations almost every month.
PC767
I reiterate, bassa is more than the two people at the top - at any given time.
Mesmer
I believe what BA imposed on us is far better for us than what BASSA suggested and called the strike for. I also believe most of the points this ballot is about are a direct result of the BASSA reps' failure to negotiate and then instigation of a needless strike over those issues.
Litebulbs
Who do you think should be negotiating, Bassa or Unite?
I am sure you will agree, that it does not matter what happened before. The most important thing will be what happens in the future. Bassa could change over night if a fresh view on negotiating happens and it could still be with the current incumbents, although I admit that it will be difficult.
Hiflyer14
The thing that makes my blood boil is that all of this has been so unnecessary - MF, strikes, the atmosphere at work, strikers v. non-strikers, loss of ST, treatment of crew who still have ST, pay freeze, all the appalling behaviour and subsequent disciplinaries, the list goes on. We could have had control over our own destiny, but the BASSA reps simply didn't have the intelligence or the competence to be able to do it. We were handed it on a plate and they simply gave it all away.
Last edited by JUAN TRIPP; 22nd Mar 2011 at 12:50. Reason: added info
Just to add a bit to the crazy world of BASSA negotiating skills.
When BA proposed the hourly rate for crew a committee was set up to look in to it.
The BASSA team was led by a rep who had never accepted the Diners card and funded his own down-route expenses using his own debit card. He believed cabin crew should roll back the clock to the days of picking up cash allowances at hotel reception desks.
Needless to say his response to any change to allowances was a little on the negative side.
BASSA then adopted the usual stance of NO - NO WAY - NEVER EVER!!!!
The fact that it would have been the same sum of money just divided equally and that the tax would be reduced made no difference to the BASSA attitude to change.
When BA proposed the hourly rate for crew a committee was set up to look in to it.
The BASSA team was led by a rep who had never accepted the Diners card and funded his own down-route expenses using his own debit card. He believed cabin crew should roll back the clock to the days of picking up cash allowances at hotel reception desks.
Needless to say his response to any change to allowances was a little on the negative side.
BASSA then adopted the usual stance of NO - NO WAY - NEVER EVER!!!!
The fact that it would have been the same sum of money just divided equally and that the tax would be reduced made no difference to the BASSA attitude to change.
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Litebulbs
For me a new union. Reason being that just the name 'Bassa' is now I feel forever tainted with this dispute. We need a new start with new people and new ideas. Not saying it will work but hey who knows if you don't try.
Vctenderness
If I remember correctly, we nearly had a potential strike when the Diners card was brought in around 1994, as Bassa believed that BA would cut our allowances when they saw we weren't spending all our money downroute.
Message to Bassa - BA knew we saved most of our allowances and still do!!
Vctenderness
Just to add a bit to the crazy world of BASSA negotiating skills.
When BA proposed the hourly rate for crew a committee was set up to look in to it.
The BASSA team was led by a rep who had never accepted the Diners card and funded his own down-route expenses using his own debit card. He believed cabin crew should roll back the clock to the days of picking up cash allowances at hotel reception desks.
Needless to say his response to any change to allowances was a little on the negative side.
BASSA then adopted the usual stance of NO - NO WAY - NEVER EVER!!!!
The fact that it would have been the same sum of money just divided equally and that the tax would be reduced made no difference to the BASSA attitude to change.
When BA proposed the hourly rate for crew a committee was set up to look in to it.
The BASSA team was led by a rep who had never accepted the Diners card and funded his own down-route expenses using his own debit card. He believed cabin crew should roll back the clock to the days of picking up cash allowances at hotel reception desks.
Needless to say his response to any change to allowances was a little on the negative side.
BASSA then adopted the usual stance of NO - NO WAY - NEVER EVER!!!!
The fact that it would have been the same sum of money just divided equally and that the tax would be reduced made no difference to the BASSA attitude to change.
Message to Bassa - BA knew we saved most of our allowances and still do!!
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Diners Card
I remember the uproar from Bassa about the Diners/Citibank Card, it was a change to HOW we were paid, not what we were paid. CC89 supported it.
The company had evidence of how much we didn't spend but this was at the same time that Bassa were telling the courts what the allowances were in order to register it as income in the BA v T&GWU Maternity Discrimination Case.
HOSTESS system is just an updated and cheaper version of the Citibank/Diners Card System where Citibank take no commissions (would anyone trust Citibank now?)
Bassa was wrong with its NO NO NO attitude back then and is still wrong with that attitude today.
The company had evidence of how much we didn't spend but this was at the same time that Bassa were telling the courts what the allowances were in order to register it as income in the BA v T&GWU Maternity Discrimination Case.
HOSTESS system is just an updated and cheaper version of the Citibank/Diners Card System where Citibank take no commissions (would anyone trust Citibank now?)
Bassa was wrong with its NO NO NO attitude back then and is still wrong with that attitude today.
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Juan Tripp,
Good summing up of the situation. The following statement is so very true....
"We ALL know that you can't have a bid system with the crazy differances of extras that certain destinations pay. The pilots had that one for years. Had Bassa been proactive ( there is a first time for everything) they would have seen that having having huge extra payments on a small number of flights, SIN.HKG, NRT etc, was potential disaster. In fact I spoke to a number of reps years ago about this but to no avail. Put all the money into one pot, divide it more fairly, and bingo. We could have had a bidding system. Same for allowances. When the pilots accepted £2.57/hour, we were offered the same, as well as a massive saving from the taxman. But Bassa didn't even speak to a company tax expert. No it was trashed sadly like so many things. The worst thing is that this was SO predictable. The one thing I've learnt in BA, is that where money is involved,then rarely the pilots get it wrong"
The huge difference in the different styles of NEGOTIATION is that the BALPA guys talk to the company well before the event, they then properly research the financial implications and they then are able to present BA with a reasoned argument. They have a very good grasp of the financial realities and open and honest debate is actively encouraged with BALPA members.
On the other hand ........ bassa have shown a total inability to negotiate, they know as much about finances as I know about brain surgery, (their grasp of finances being displayed by their £173M loan which was really only about £52M) and their reasoned argument equates to 'give us what we want or we will go on strike'!!! Not only do they not have a grasp of the financial realitites, but any voice that speaks out against the bassa line is extinguished!!
No matter what happens in the next couple of weeks I think it is essential to have a total clear out of the 'top table' at bassa!
Good summing up of the situation. The following statement is so very true....
"We ALL know that you can't have a bid system with the crazy differances of extras that certain destinations pay. The pilots had that one for years. Had Bassa been proactive ( there is a first time for everything) they would have seen that having having huge extra payments on a small number of flights, SIN.HKG, NRT etc, was potential disaster. In fact I spoke to a number of reps years ago about this but to no avail. Put all the money into one pot, divide it more fairly, and bingo. We could have had a bidding system. Same for allowances. When the pilots accepted £2.57/hour, we were offered the same, as well as a massive saving from the taxman. But Bassa didn't even speak to a company tax expert. No it was trashed sadly like so many things. The worst thing is that this was SO predictable. The one thing I've learnt in BA, is that where money is involved,then rarely the pilots get it wrong"
The huge difference in the different styles of NEGOTIATION is that the BALPA guys talk to the company well before the event, they then properly research the financial implications and they then are able to present BA with a reasoned argument. They have a very good grasp of the financial realities and open and honest debate is actively encouraged with BALPA members.
On the other hand ........ bassa have shown a total inability to negotiate, they know as much about finances as I know about brain surgery, (their grasp of finances being displayed by their £173M loan which was really only about £52M) and their reasoned argument equates to 'give us what we want or we will go on strike'!!! Not only do they not have a grasp of the financial realitites, but any voice that speaks out against the bassa line is extinguished!!
No matter what happens in the next couple of weeks I think it is essential to have a total clear out of the 'top table' at bassa!
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No matter what happens in the next couple of weeks I think it is essential to have a total clear out of the 'top table' at bassa!
Precisely Sporran. Although without a vote on that issue the BASSA members are left spinning. Poor them.
Precisely Sporran. Although without a vote on that issue the BASSA members are left spinning. Poor them.
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Put all the money into one pot, divide it more fairly, and bingo. .......... But Bassa didn't even speak to a company tax expert. No it was trashed sadly like so many things.
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MrBernoulli
If you round it down, then 8000 are still happy with the situation. No doubt pprune comes up in converation on the Bassa forum, so I am sure many pop in here to see what is going on and they will see that many allege that the man at the top in on big bucks, paid by them.
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If you round it down, then 8000 are still happy with the situation. No doubt PPRuNe comes up in converation on the Bassa forum, so I am sure many pop in here to see what is going on and they will see that many allege that the man at the top in on big bucks, paid by them.
Actually I very much doubt either statement to be accurate. I would suggest that the majority are completely unaware of the vast majority of facts surrounding this dispute. Some simply regurgitate what they heard from another crew member last week. Like for example the crew member who told my partner that BA was no longer allowing staff to have children. (Honestly…!!)
Their spectacular apathy is, I would offer, a large part of the reason that this matter has remained unsettled. The whole dispute rests in the hands of effectively one man, who post his dismissal at least, has little or no motivation to end it.
Have I got this completely wrong?
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Their spectacular apathy is, I would offer, a large part of the reason that this matter has remained unsettled. The whole dispute rests in the hands of effectively one man, who post his dismissal at least, has little or no motivation to end it.
Have I got this completely wrong?
Have I got this completely wrong?
KW has openly invited to resolve this dispute, but I see no movement rom BASSA/UNITE, other than the usual retoric.
Junior trash
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It seems Mr Holley has now been given a written warning of arrest by Surrey police for harrasment. So in true BASSA style he starts a new thread with the same allegations.
Surely BASSA should know by now that when you are stuck in a hole of your own making that digging ought to stop.
Or is Martyrdom the goal?
Surely BASSA should know by now that when you are stuck in a hole of your own making that digging ought to stop.
Or is Martyrdom the goal?
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I think the time has come to look beyond the end of this dispute and contemplate how BASSA will be able to reconstitute itself. It is self evident that the branch will undergo significant change in structure as the various appeals to tribunals fail and members exit the organisation. The challenge will be to find people who are able to take on leading the branch. I suspect that there has been no succession planning, either that or those who one might have expected to take on larger roles have found themselves no longer in BA's employ. BASSA will need charismatic leaders who can appeal across the whole cabin crew community if they are to survive. People who truly represent the feelings of the membership. The trouble is that the roles have a lot of baggage and many will see this as a poisoned chalice. A starting point might be to reform the constitution, particularly on the issue of honorariums. Maybe now is the time to seriously consider paid union officials as opposed to lay members. It might introduce a degree of professionalism that seems to have been absent from the negotiations to date.
I think the time has come to look beyond the end of this dispute and contemplate how BASSA will be able to reconstitute itself. It is self evident that the branch will undergo significant change in structure as the various appeals to tribunals fail and members exit the organisation. The challenge will be to find people who are able to take on leading the branch. I suspect that there has been no succession planning, either that or those who one might have expected to take on larger roles have found themselves no longer in BA's employ. BASSA will need charismatic leaders who can appeal across the whole cabin crew community if they are to survive. People who truly represent the feelings of the membership. The trouble is that the roles have a lot of baggage and many will see this as a poisoned chalice. A starting point might be to reform the constitution, particularly on the issue of honorariums. Maybe now is the time to seriously consider paid union officials as opposed to lay members. It might introduce a degree of professionalism that seems to have been absent from the negotiations to date.
The BASSA reps are LAY reps there to represent their members in cabin crew.
Unite provide full time officials who head up negotiations, when required, and deal with the legal and technical issues surrounding agreements.
In fact the TGWU and now Unite provided a FTO with no other responsibilities than dealing with cabin crew. Also the National Officers for Civil Aviation involve themselves fully with BASSA/Amicus cabin crew.
Until the members realise that BASSA reps are not doing them any good and reject them in a election ballot nothing will change.