BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Eddy
BA has already been reasonable by not sacking a lot of these militants long, long ago.
Let's remember that BA could have allowed the latest ballot to go through to strike action before releasing news that the idiots at Unite had executed the ballot illegally, again, and dropping the bomb shell that those who took part in the illegal strike action were subject to dismissal.
Hope they save their four-hundred quid! They might need it.
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I am also a bit frustrated about the bonus. I'm just hoping that the pro-rata will work out to be not in favour of the strikers. I'm not saying this because I'm bitter and twisted, I'm saying it due to working my whatsit off to keep our customers happy.
By the looks of things elsewhere, whoever of the strikers receive a bonus, they'll donate the money to crewdefence. At least they'll be wasting the money "wisely".
By the looks of things elsewhere, whoever of the strikers receive a bonus, they'll donate the money to crewdefence. At least they'll be wasting the money "wisely".
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Originally Posted by MFCREW
It is pro-rated - and why shouldn't they get it?
Yes, everyone who works for BA contributed to the cost cutting but there's a group who negated their own efforts when they walked out on strike.
Unite and BA claim that the strikes cost something in the region of £120m. Forgive me, but there's no way that the 4,000 or so of you who actualy went on strike saved that much over the rest of the year.
As always, I applaud them for having stood up for their beliefs but I also don't think it's fair that they get the same as I get when bonuses (bonii) are dished out.
MFCrew, I'm not bitter. Not in the least. As I've said countless times before, I have the utmost respect for our colleagues who went on strike (the majority of them, atleast, who conducted themselves in a dignified manner). I just don't think it's fair that those of us who have backed BA year round get rewarded to the same level as those who didn't. But Keith has addressed this.
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I'm not saying it's right that everyone gets a bonus but I do think that there does come a point when things do have to move on.
It could be seen as a conciliatory gesture that will sway the middle of the roaders so everyone gains in the long run.
It could be seen as a conciliatory gesture that will sway the middle of the roaders so everyone gains in the long run.
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And it's somewhat unsurprising that it's BA that mans up and makes the first move towards the return of a harmonious working environment.
WRT the bonus, a message to the CC that took strike action, how much more would that bonus have been had they not struck?
Also bear in mind that the accounting year was only 9 months up to the end of December. These 9 months are traditionally the more prosperous months of the year for most airlines. Expect BA to announce a loss for the first quarter this year.
I would hope, as a number of posters have mentioned, that this concillatory move by KW will make the difference in preventing the next strike and finally a conclusion to this dispute.
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MFCREW
The profits were made despite the strike action, not with the help of them. It's somewhat disingenuous to suggest that they contributed towards the profit. We would have seen £150 million more in profit if it wasn't for the militant strikers. That said, I happen to agree that it might the right move for BA to offer the bonus, for a number of reasons including the fact that it demonstrates who is being reasonable in this dispute.
And another thing......anyone can be sacked for any reason at any time. An industrial tribunal will probably then find (a few months later) that it was unlawful dismissal, and compensation will be awarded, which will almost definitely fall short of re-employment. Haven't Unite/BASSA warned you about that?
And another thing......anyone can be sacked for any reason at any time. An industrial tribunal will probably then find (a few months later) that it was unlawful dismissal, and compensation will be awarded, which will almost definitely fall short of re-employment. Haven't Unite/BASSA warned you about that?
Last edited by 123breath; 27th Feb 2011 at 08:40.
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MFCREW,
Looking back through all your posts it appears that, you say, you have only been working for BA for 3 months and have nothing to do with Bassa.
I also notice that on another crew forum a poster with the same name also posts unpleasant things about Mixed Fleet and BA and also declares to be brand new to BA.
I would not want to doubt, in any way, your word but I find it quite upsetting that someone so new to our airline can be so hateful of fellow crew and our management so quickly.
Are you sure you are in the right job. Maybe it would be better to work for another company, for your own sake, as I hardly think things will improve enough to make you happy in this job, if you are hating BA so much, so quickly.
Even after all this disruption over the last two years and working with fellow crew, having to walk on eggshells, I still love my job and my employer after 22 years.
Looking back through all your posts it appears that, you say, you have only been working for BA for 3 months and have nothing to do with Bassa.
I also notice that on another crew forum a poster with the same name also posts unpleasant things about Mixed Fleet and BA and also declares to be brand new to BA.
I would not want to doubt, in any way, your word but I find it quite upsetting that someone so new to our airline can be so hateful of fellow crew and our management so quickly.
Are you sure you are in the right job. Maybe it would be better to work for another company, for your own sake, as I hardly think things will improve enough to make you happy in this job, if you are hating BA so much, so quickly.
Even after all this disruption over the last two years and working with fellow crew, having to walk on eggshells, I still love my job and my employer after 22 years.
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The gesture of the Company to pro rata pay the 2010 bonus is not only morally correct, the misguided ones didnt strike all year , but it is a very powerful psychological message to those people who chose to believe the HLLT style rants of LM and his assertion that BA is a "BrUtish Employer"...How wrong he is and how I hope, as the majority of contibutors to this forum appear to hope, that this matter ends soon.
I have yet to meet any animosity between F/C and C/C and it would appear that the converse is true.
I have yet to meet any animosity between F/C and C/C and it would appear that the converse is true.
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That's a very good post Flaps80.
I try and explain to people daily that you get polarised opinions on these forums and the reality on my flights is that most crew get on fine, both flight crew and cabin crew, and you get all sorts of points of view from both sides of the door.
There are obviously some crew that are very pro bassa and very upset still but the vast majority are very normal people that just want an end to it and unfortunately believed their union and striked as a result and it is human nature that it is hard, for them, to admit that what they did was a mistake! You see to justify going on strike, they have convinced themselves that BA has treated them badly and it is hard to admit, to yourself, that you were wrong.
Even myself, as a non striker, am not happy with how M/F has been implemented and I also worry about the future of my own job, so it is not all black and white, like many posters on here see it. I am afraid!!
However slowly but surely crew are starting to realise that it was a mistake to strike and that Bassa will not get them out of this mess and support is starting to drop!
The tide is changing, I am sure.
I try and explain to people daily that you get polarised opinions on these forums and the reality on my flights is that most crew get on fine, both flight crew and cabin crew, and you get all sorts of points of view from both sides of the door.
There are obviously some crew that are very pro bassa and very upset still but the vast majority are very normal people that just want an end to it and unfortunately believed their union and striked as a result and it is human nature that it is hard, for them, to admit that what they did was a mistake! You see to justify going on strike, they have convinced themselves that BA has treated them badly and it is hard to admit, to yourself, that you were wrong.
Even myself, as a non striker, am not happy with how M/F has been implemented and I also worry about the future of my own job, so it is not all black and white, like many posters on here see it. I am afraid!!
However slowly but surely crew are starting to realise that it was a mistake to strike and that Bassa will not get them out of this mess and support is starting to drop!
The tide is changing, I am sure.
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Bettygirl, you wrote....
....just to throw my tuppence on the pile, I very much would doubt it.
It doesn't take a genius to recognise Drunken Wally's puerile writing style. Someone claiming to be on the new mixed fleet, but very vociferous about hating it.....and about hating BA.....and so solidly supporting strikers and their actions/decisions even though they were taken supposedly years before MFCREW 'joined'.....but he's also apparently self-declared 'nothing to do with BASSA'....come on Wally, you can do better than this!! Jog on!
MFCREW,
Looking back through all your posts it appears that, you say, you have only been working for BA for 3 months and have nothing to do with Bassa.
I also notice that on another crew forum a poster with the same name also posts unpleasant things about Mixed Fleet and BA and also declares to be brand new to BA.
I would not want to doubt, in any way, your word
Looking back through all your posts it appears that, you say, you have only been working for BA for 3 months and have nothing to do with Bassa.
I also notice that on another crew forum a poster with the same name also posts unpleasant things about Mixed Fleet and BA and also declares to be brand new to BA.
I would not want to doubt, in any way, your word
It doesn't take a genius to recognise Drunken Wally's puerile writing style. Someone claiming to be on the new mixed fleet, but very vociferous about hating it.....and about hating BA.....and so solidly supporting strikers and their actions/decisions even though they were taken supposedly years before MFCREW 'joined'.....but he's also apparently self-declared 'nothing to do with BASSA'....come on Wally, you can do better than this!! Jog on!
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MF CREW
Betty,
your post 3277 was excellent and summed up my thoughts when reading the contributions that MF posts. That said nearly all your posts on here are excellent, you are one of the few consistent, balanced and fair posters from any workgroup.
I felt that same myself about MF posts but did not say anything in anticipation of being banned for 'playing the player and not the ball'.
I do hope that this dispute will soon be over, but I think (sadly) that it is going to run for sometime yet due to the mindset and the BASSA hierarchy and the Socialist beliefs of UNITE, who seem to be the most unprofessional organisation led by unprofessional/uneducated people earning huge salaries and with nothing to lose from continuing this dispute.
As I type this the world news is on the BBC about the struggles in the middle east/north africa and it just seem that this dispute and peoples concerns on either side are so small when compared with the life/death struggles out there.......but I guess we are lucky that we live in a society where losing a CSD from a crew compliment and a few other changes to terms and conditions /loss of staff travel are enough to motivate cries of outrage/illegality/against my human rights/racism etc.....rather than a society where actually not having jobs/votes/food and losing our lives as these poor folks do is a reailty.
your post 3277 was excellent and summed up my thoughts when reading the contributions that MF posts. That said nearly all your posts on here are excellent, you are one of the few consistent, balanced and fair posters from any workgroup.
I felt that same myself about MF posts but did not say anything in anticipation of being banned for 'playing the player and not the ball'.
I do hope that this dispute will soon be over, but I think (sadly) that it is going to run for sometime yet due to the mindset and the BASSA hierarchy and the Socialist beliefs of UNITE, who seem to be the most unprofessional organisation led by unprofessional/uneducated people earning huge salaries and with nothing to lose from continuing this dispute.
As I type this the world news is on the BBC about the struggles in the middle east/north africa and it just seem that this dispute and peoples concerns on either side are so small when compared with the life/death struggles out there.......but I guess we are lucky that we live in a society where losing a CSD from a crew compliment and a few other changes to terms and conditions /loss of staff travel are enough to motivate cries of outrage/illegality/against my human rights/racism etc.....rather than a society where actually not having jobs/votes/food and losing our lives as these poor folks do is a reailty.
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Ops room junkie
What an excellent post. 
It is rather galling when Bassa compared their "struggle" to events from elsewhere in the world - only goes to prove how far removed they actually are from the real world and real oppression.
It is rather galling when Bassa compared their "struggle" to events from elsewhere in the world - only goes to prove how far removed they actually are from the real world and real oppression.
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Flybymerchant
Hi,
I am in the majority on this forum in being extremely anti the BASSA leadership. I believe that we cabin crew had to make our fair share of cuts to keep the airline going. I also believe that BA's way of making those cuts were better for us than BASSA's ideas and that BASSA should have negotiated sensibly (and accepted the MTP) to try to get new entrants flying with us on the same fleet.
Having got that out of the way, I would like to pick up Flybymerchant on a couple of his points in post 3240.
Really? I will grant you that some cabin crew are paid far more than one would expect, but those are I believe a minority these days. Is the average crew member paid more per hour than the Leadership Team, pilots, IT consultants, each management grade etc? I have no idea what most "groups'" average pay is and I have no problem with whatever they are paid (well, except maybe the leadership team!), but I would be VERY surprised if cabin crew were the best paid per hour. Please give us some figures if you stand by this assertion.
Again, let me stress that I believe this was the best way to make the savings and I don't have a problem with it. I do believe it jeopardises customer service and I think we have fewer crew on our aircraft than most major airlines, but it is a way of saving money which doesn't impact on my take-home pay - and that is what is important to me. However, calling it losing one crew member out of 15 is being disingenuous. The plane is split into the cabins in which we work and the lost crew member has to come from one of those cabins. The actual impact of losing someone from the back of a 747 would be losing 1 out of 5; from Club would be 1 out of 3 or 4 etc depending on the aircraft; and from First would be 1 out of 3. If the CSD is free to work on a trolley then we don't have a problem - it is when the IFE etc needs constant attention that the service will suffer. This is a minority of the time, but does happen. I am just pointing out that calling it 1 out of 15 is misleading.
I only wrote this post because if we are going to accuse the BASSA leadership team of untruths then we have to be able to back up what we ourselves say; and I would dispute the assertion Flybymerchant made about cabin crew being the best paid per productive hour.
I am in the majority on this forum in being extremely anti the BASSA leadership. I believe that we cabin crew had to make our fair share of cuts to keep the airline going. I also believe that BA's way of making those cuts were better for us than BASSA's ideas and that BASSA should have negotiated sensibly (and accepted the MTP) to try to get new entrants flying with us on the same fleet.
Having got that out of the way, I would like to pick up Flybymerchant on a couple of his points in post 3240.
it is the best rewarded group in the entire airline per productive hour
losing one cabin crew member on a 747, from 15 to 14
I only wrote this post because if we are going to accuse the BASSA leadership team of untruths then we have to be able to back up what we ourselves say; and I would dispute the assertion Flybymerchant made about cabin crew being the best paid per productive hour.
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That's a very balanced and good post Mesmer. You make some really good points.
All the evidence on average salaries, actually shows cabin crew as being on a par with most sectors of BA including the ground staff and office workers.
The two sectors that earn more than everyone else are Pilots and Management but then that is understandable and not surprising.
We do earn more that other UK airlines but if you took just the post 97 crew earnings, this figure would in fact be much more similar to the figures of other UK carriers.
When, however you compare us to other International carriers, we come out on a par with many and many other carriers pay their crew more than BA crew, such as Iberia, for example.
Other airlines do have the same number of crew on a 747, such as Qantas, I believe, but the majority that have premium cabins have more and some airlines, particularly the Far Eastern ones have as many as 17, 18 or even 19 cabin crew on a 747 compared to our 14. This dose make it hard for us, as an airline, to compete with the level of service offered, but we do try!!!
So well done for posting your post because I do feel the general hatred of cabin crew as a workforce is getting quite out of hand and it is good to read your balanced view.
All the evidence on average salaries, actually shows cabin crew as being on a par with most sectors of BA including the ground staff and office workers.
The two sectors that earn more than everyone else are Pilots and Management but then that is understandable and not surprising.
We do earn more that other UK airlines but if you took just the post 97 crew earnings, this figure would in fact be much more similar to the figures of other UK carriers.
When, however you compare us to other International carriers, we come out on a par with many and many other carriers pay their crew more than BA crew, such as Iberia, for example.
Other airlines do have the same number of crew on a 747, such as Qantas, I believe, but the majority that have premium cabins have more and some airlines, particularly the Far Eastern ones have as many as 17, 18 or even 19 cabin crew on a 747 compared to our 14. This dose make it hard for us, as an airline, to compete with the level of service offered, but we do try!!!
So well done for posting your post because I do feel the general hatred of cabin crew as a workforce is getting quite out of hand and it is good to read your balanced view.
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The actual impact of losing someone from the back of a 747 would be losing 1 out of 5; from Club would be 1 out of 3 or 4 etc depending on the aircraft; and from First would be 1 out of 3. If the CSD is free to work on a trolley then we don't have a problem
MFCREW
Striking cabin crew cost the company. Their 'contribution' has been little more than name-calling, hissy-fitting and parading at Bedfont. All that juvenile behaviour has negated much of the cost-saving measures implemented by everyone else. If it wasn't for these cost-savings agreed by the majority of other BA employees, there wouldn't be a bonus to give! 
Trite comments like that will come back to haunt the first lot of (unprotected) strikers when they attempt to implement their next predictable ballot! 
Why not? they contributed toward the profit didnt they?
Can't sack them it's illegal
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On the 747 the crew member was removed from the Club section downstairs which is where the CSD now works. No other cabin is affected.
It is difficult to compete with the likes of SQ because their crew costs are much lower (not just wages but pensions etc.)
It is difficult to compete with the likes of SQ because their crew costs are much lower (not just wages but pensions etc.)
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Less crew
Mesmer
I also seem to remember in the not so distant past, there were 340 pax in M on a 744 (14F55J340M) this reduced with WT+ and new club and no reduction in crew.....
I also seem to remember in the not so distant past, there were 340 pax in M on a 744 (14F55J340M) this reduced with WT+ and new club and no reduction in crew.....