BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Agreed BG
But at the moment on LH at least most of the routes MF are flying are routes WW crew see as unpopular and financially poor.
When some of the more popular, better money routes start transferring, it is worth bearing in mind what routes MF took initially to keep a balanced view.
But at the moment on LH at least most of the routes MF are flying are routes WW crew see as unpopular and financially poor.
When some of the more popular, better money routes start transferring, it is worth bearing in mind what routes MF took initially to keep a balanced view.
Join Date: May 2010
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Well Fruitbat I agree.
The first set of routes are not the most popular and I expect BA have done that to reassure current crew.
I and many other crew realise that some of the more popular routes will transfer over but as long as it is done fairly ie. one good, one not so good, and the balance of routes remains the same, I see no problem with crew eventually accepting it and seeing that it is fair. Obviously it is sad if one of your favorite routes goes to Mixed Fleet but predominantly most crew are just worried that their earning may go down, due to most of us having mortgages and other commitments, so what I care most about is that it is fair and BF has said it will be.
Also the fact, as you say, that routes will move back and forth will also assist with this.
I am on E/F and am sad that the Copenhagen is on the list to go but I also can see that it is only fair that Mixed Fleet get to do some of the popular ones. I will live in hope that it moves back at some time but it wont be the end of the world if it does not.
Look FB, We are agreeing with each other for a change, that's nice!!!
Just to be clear, these are my views and not those of my employer BA.
The first set of routes are not the most popular and I expect BA have done that to reassure current crew.
I and many other crew realise that some of the more popular routes will transfer over but as long as it is done fairly ie. one good, one not so good, and the balance of routes remains the same, I see no problem with crew eventually accepting it and seeing that it is fair. Obviously it is sad if one of your favorite routes goes to Mixed Fleet but predominantly most crew are just worried that their earning may go down, due to most of us having mortgages and other commitments, so what I care most about is that it is fair and BF has said it will be.
Also the fact, as you say, that routes will move back and forth will also assist with this.
I am on E/F and am sad that the Copenhagen is on the list to go but I also can see that it is only fair that Mixed Fleet get to do some of the popular ones. I will live in hope that it moves back at some time but it wont be the end of the world if it does not.
Look FB, We are agreeing with each other for a change, that's nice!!!
Just to be clear, these are my views and not those of my employer BA.
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VCC2 I don't think that is why.
It is something BA have always said was going to happen and as the Las Vegas goes to a 747 in June, they have decided to do it ready for that and I am sure they will add in other routes too.
I doubt, very much, that they will roster VCCs on Mixed Fleet 747 flights because many of the M/F crew will themselves be new to the aircraft and those that have experience of the 747 will, I would have thought, be busy helping their own Mixed Fleet colleagues get to grips with a new aircraft type.
These are of course my own personal views and I don't speak on behalf of my employer BA
It is something BA have always said was going to happen and as the Las Vegas goes to a 747 in June, they have decided to do it ready for that and I am sure they will add in other routes too.
I doubt, very much, that they will roster VCCs on Mixed Fleet 747 flights because many of the M/F crew will themselves be new to the aircraft and those that have experience of the 747 will, I would have thought, be busy helping their own Mixed Fleet colleagues get to grips with a new aircraft type.
These are of course my own personal views and I don't speak on behalf of my employer BA
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Letters From Unite
The Latest from Bassa -
The Issues -
http://freepdfhosting.com/9a2aad3f14.pdf
Intention to Ballot -
http://freepdfhosting.com/287a681774.pdf
The Issues -
http://freepdfhosting.com/9a2aad3f14.pdf
Intention to Ballot -
http://freepdfhosting.com/287a681774.pdf
Very interesting numbers.
If you take the total to be balloted,9,824 and the numbers quoted at the end of the letter 906, it is clear that BASSA's numbers are falling.
The 906 are clearly Amicus/CC89 as they do not use checkoff.
That means that BASSA have 8,918 members from a possible 13,000 cabin crew.
The list of reasons for dispute looks the same to me
If you take the total to be balloted,9,824 and the numbers quoted at the end of the letter 906, it is clear that BASSA's numbers are falling.
The 906 are clearly Amicus/CC89 as they do not use checkoff.
That means that BASSA have 8,918 members from a possible 13,000 cabin crew.
The list of reasons for dispute looks the same to me
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I am very surpised that they say they have so many members. I recall back on 9 Sep 2010 their website showed 9279, and then on 10 Sep 2010 it showed 9270, before changing to "about 10,000".
Do you think any of them will ever fly on the A380 or B787?
Do you think any of them will ever fly on the A380 or B787?
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So, BASSA balloted 10,000 members last time and the company highlighted a discrepancy of 2,500 who no longer pay union subs through payroll. Obviously then BASSA come back with 9,824 clearly taking into account the 2,500 shortfall?
I feel yet another catastrophic BASSA balls up is heading our way - and so the BASSA merry go round continues.
I feel yet another catastrophic BASSA balls up is heading our way - and so the BASSA merry go round continues.
A quote from the letter in the second link in Special Patrol Group's post above:
Do Unite seriously believe that in 10 days they have managed to tidy up their membership registers with respect to BASSA? They're havin' a laugh! They have had at least 2 ballots become the subject of extremely expensive litigation, based on poor record keeping, and they would have us all believe that everything is now sorted? This is more like an attempt to apparently place themselves on the right side of the law.
It takes Unite longer than 10 days to get ballot papers back, and ballot papers only require a cross in a box - how on earth can they have had proper "responses to letters written to all members asking them to check their details and to notify the union of any changes" in 10 days! Let's see how many non-members still get ballot papers for the next (pointless) vote. What a laugh!
This exercise was conducted for this ballot between the dates of February 8th, 2011 and February 18th, 2011. The information set out in this notice is as accurate as is reasonably practicable in the light of the information in the possession of the union at the date this notice is given.
It takes Unite longer than 10 days to get ballot papers back, and ballot papers only require a cross in a box - how on earth can they have had proper "responses to letters written to all members asking them to check their details and to notify the union of any changes" in 10 days! Let's see how many non-members still get ballot papers for the next (pointless) vote. What a laugh!
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The worst fact in this is that there are still almost 9000 BASSA members. Despite everything that has happened since the "12 days of Christmas", 9000 people still feel well represented enough to commit financially to this branch.
It is an amazing feat for the leaders of BASSA that these crew still believe in them to this extent.
As a very interested observer, having read all available facts and read opinions of both sides of this dispute it is incomprehensible that so many still subscribe to BASSA and UNITE being the appropriate people to represent them.
The figures on the returned ballots will make interesting reading as usual.
It is an amazing feat for the leaders of BASSA that these crew still believe in them to this extent.
As a very interested observer, having read all available facts and read opinions of both sides of this dispute it is incomprehensible that so many still subscribe to BASSA and UNITE being the appropriate people to represent them.
The figures on the returned ballots will make interesting reading as usual.
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Ballots and membership
Unite just cannot get it right. In their first ballot held in December 2009, 12,780 ballot papers issued but this ballot was subsequently declared invalid by the High Court following a challenge by BA.
The second (valid) ballot in February 2010 had 11,691 ballot papers sent out.
The third ballot in December 2010 had 10,220 ballot papers sent out. This was also wrong so a fourth ballot for 9,824 members will be done soon!
In the 13 months between the second and fourth ballots, Unite's membership has fallen by 1,867. But bearing in mind that natural wastage accounts for about 25 cabin crew members a month, and that most of these would have been union members, it looks as if roughly 1,560 have resigned from the union. This is a significant percentage of total membership but not as much as some people thought it would (or should) be.
The second (valid) ballot in February 2010 had 11,691 ballot papers sent out.
The third ballot in December 2010 had 10,220 ballot papers sent out. This was also wrong so a fourth ballot for 9,824 members will be done soon!
In the 13 months between the second and fourth ballots, Unite's membership has fallen by 1,867. But bearing in mind that natural wastage accounts for about 25 cabin crew members a month, and that most of these would have been union members, it looks as if roughly 1,560 have resigned from the union. This is a significant percentage of total membership but not as much as some people thought it would (or should) be.
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Its up the individual whether they resign or not. Most stay in because in the event of an 'issue' with the company they will have union back up and at the end of the day they are entrusted with the negotiations regarding pay and conditions.
I'm no fan of BASSA but its the memberships union and nobody elses.
I'm not convinced the membership would stay as high if members had to pay their dues anually with cash rather than have it deducted by check off.
I'm no fan of BASSA but its the memberships union and nobody elses.
I'm not convinced the membership would stay as high if members had to pay their dues anually with cash rather than have it deducted by check off.
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DH's words:
So, given the above, would it be remiss to say that BASSA have no particular desire to provide accurate numbers of members balloted?
I would suggest this may well be part of the 'cunning' plan. Simply chuck out another ballot to all and sundry and then wait for BA to have the the result declared legally void and then cry to everyone how everything is unfair and how BA have carved away their democratic rights etc etc etc. The mindless and brainwashed respond in the entirely predictable manner and so the wheel continues to to turn. Repeat as required to fulfill the desires of DH, as stated above.
The only way out for BA is to let BASSA have their strike and THEN cut them off at the knees with the toilet roll list of illegalities.
You no longer need actual strikes to pressure the company - ballots can have the same effect, since they carry the threat of strikes. It would now appear that a simple, well-placed cross on the ballot paper removes some of the need to actually lose money and stand on picket lines.
I would suggest this may well be part of the 'cunning' plan. Simply chuck out another ballot to all and sundry and then wait for BA to have the the result declared legally void and then cry to everyone how everything is unfair and how BA have carved away their democratic rights etc etc etc. The mindless and brainwashed respond in the entirely predictable manner and so the wheel continues to to turn. Repeat as required to fulfill the desires of DH, as stated above.
The only way out for BA is to let BASSA have their strike and THEN cut them off at the knees with the toilet roll list of illegalities.
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Pontius:
This is exactly why I believe they have deliberately balloted yet again with incorrect membership figures on purpose so DH can carry out his 'guerilla tactics'. And continue balloting again and again until BA cave in to his demands. Only this time I don't think BA will offer them the lifeline of going to court but let them carry out the strike.
Also, word to DH - If you are going to keep up the threat of balloting, or cancel proposed action at last minute it's probably not a good idea to mention it in the national press. Do you really think our customers will stop booking now after you have said 'we are only going continue the threat' - doh! Hardly guerilla tactics, more like 'gorilla' a group of monkeys could do a better than this mob!
This is exactly why I believe they have deliberately balloted yet again with incorrect membership figures on purpose so DH can carry out his 'guerilla tactics'. And continue balloting again and again until BA cave in to his demands. Only this time I don't think BA will offer them the lifeline of going to court but let them carry out the strike.
Also, word to DH - If you are going to keep up the threat of balloting, or cancel proposed action at last minute it's probably not a good idea to mention it in the national press. Do you really think our customers will stop booking now after you have said 'we are only going continue the threat' - doh! Hardly guerilla tactics, more like 'gorilla' a group of monkeys could do a better than this mob!
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I havn't posted on here for ages but have been watching. it makes depressing reading.
legacy crew (god knows where that came from!) and mixed fleet chatted happily the other day in the line for security. I have never heard a bad word. they are our colleagues now
my gripe will always be with a managment who have stripped away my ability to deliver a premium service to my customers
legacy crew (god knows where that came from!) and mixed fleet chatted happily the other day in the line for security. I have never heard a bad word. they are our colleagues now
my gripe will always be with a managment who have stripped away my ability to deliver a premium service to my customers
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Galanjal
I know what you mean. I presume the name " Legacy" comes from Legacy Airlines,ie older established airlines, like BA, AA UA. Someone has just applied the name to crew!
With regards to us not being able to deliver to our customers, again I agree with you, however, its not just a BA thing, its happening all over service industry. Cuts here, cuts there, welcome to the New World.
I know what you mean. I presume the name " Legacy" comes from Legacy Airlines,ie older established airlines, like BA, AA UA. Someone has just applied the name to crew!
With regards to us not being able to deliver to our customers, again I agree with you, however, its not just a BA thing, its happening all over service industry. Cuts here, cuts there, welcome to the New World.
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There has to be a short way of referring to the different groups of cabin crew. As Miss BA says, someone has come up with a label and it has stuck. The label in itself is not important but it can annoy some people. Most pilots seem to get annoyed if called Flight Deck, the unionised crew don't like the term legacy. It is not worth getting irritated about it. We are all just crew, NF, legacy and Flight Deck.
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So ALL BA employees will receive the equivalent of one weeks pay after today's results.
Interestingly, anyone who takes IA in 2011 will not be eligible for next years bonus if triggered.
Interestingly, anyone who takes IA in 2011 will not be eligible for next years bonus if triggered.
