BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Beagle9
Are you seriously suggesting that DH has buried the accounts in his garden! Come on CCCP where are the accounts. Please don't bother coming on here talking about the PCCC and their accounts unless you can answer this simple question. Thankyou
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A simple question
Having no vested interest in BASSA - I really cannot see nor understand why you all feel it acceptable to post scorn, abuse and, to be honest, made up rubbish on this thread.
This thread and the postings here are no better (it probably should be worse) than wahts posted on other forums - cant you see you are acting no better than the other lot?
Although to be honest when I speak with the vast majority of Flight Crew and mention this forum, the majority of them roll their eyes and utter an expletive - even your own colleagues think bad of this place.
This thread and the postings here are no better (it probably should be worse) than wahts posted on other forums - cant you see you are acting no better than the other lot?
Although to be honest when I speak with the vast majority of Flight Crew and mention this forum, the majority of them roll their eyes and utter an expletive - even your own colleagues think bad of this place.
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HiFlyer14,
You made the following statement on the 25th January -
Do you wish to withdraw this statement or do you still maintain that appearing on the "schedule" of Trade Unions proves that the PCCC is an independent Trade Union?
You made the following statement on the 25th January -
This verifies that, contrary to BASSA rantings, we are completely independent from BA, we are not management. We are cabin crew who believe that BASSA have misled our entire community.
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MFCREW
Sorry you feel like this. Can assure you just a bit of light hearted banter. Nothing nasty. What has been asked of CCCP is a serious question of where does all the Bassa money go and where can members see the accounts. Many of us have asked this for YEARS. Just getting a bit frustrated at CCCP asking about £150 when we are talking millions. Just sometimes you need a bit of light relief IMO from all this c---. Sorry if you feel like this. Even though I'm no longer a member of Bassa, I still have a vested interest, in that they are still causing a lot of angst amongst ALL crew. At least on MF
you can come to work knowing that everyone is batting for the same side.
you can come to work knowing that everyone is batting for the same side.
Last edited by JUAN TRIPP; 1st Feb 2011 at 07:35.
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If it would keep the sceptics quiet; I am prepared to pay this £150 to PCCC as a gift. They may then choose, if they wish, to use my real name on their accounting.
I am BA Crew and a PCCC member.
However, Miss BA and hundreds of others, seem to have beaten me to it.
Matter closed.
I am BA Crew and a PCCC member.
However, Miss BA and hundreds of others, seem to have beaten me to it.
Matter closed.
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CCCP (backwards pccc)
If around 1500 CC have accepted the offer (and like me received a pay rise today) then isn't it reasonable to assume that many if not all could be PCCC members?
So could this 'quasi-union', that you think no-one wants, have 1500 members already?
If Amicus only have 1300 members then isn't it reasonable to think that the PCCC should have at least as much representation as them?
Good to see that Hi-flyer answered your question so that you know the name (albeit forum) of at least one founder of the new union; now you can tell CF that it really is set up by cabin crew for cabin crew.
If around 1500 CC have accepted the offer (and like me received a pay rise today) then isn't it reasonable to assume that many if not all could be PCCC members?
So could this 'quasi-union', that you think no-one wants, have 1500 members already?
If Amicus only have 1300 members then isn't it reasonable to think that the PCCC should have at least as much representation as them?
Good to see that Hi-flyer answered your question so that you know the name (albeit forum) of at least one founder of the new union; now you can tell CF that it really is set up by cabin crew for cabin crew.
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Well said OG. Yes it seems that CCCP is the founder of that lovely website Crewforum. Anyway let's see if he answers the question about the Bassa accounts. Come on its good to talk
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2.9% now, but it will cost you thousands later!!!
Ha ha. Your "contract" will only last as long as Bill Francis. You are all now exposed and isolated, just where BA want you. And what contract have you signed anyway? BF1 or BF2? neither will be honoured by any subsequent manager, as per usual performance of BA.
You have also kissed goodbye to the 1948 Redeployment Agreement. This will affect your pensions and if IFCE is suddenly over populated with MF crew, you will be issued with new contracts with 90 days notice.
But at least you have the PCCC to stand up to BA for you!!
Ha ha. Your "contract" will only last as long as Bill Francis. You are all now exposed and isolated, just where BA want you. And what contract have you signed anyway? BF1 or BF2? neither will be honoured by any subsequent manager, as per usual performance of BA.
You have also kissed goodbye to the 1948 Redeployment Agreement. This will affect your pensions and if IFCE is suddenly over populated with MF crew, you will be issued with new contracts with 90 days notice.
But at least you have the PCCC to stand up to BA for you!!
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Before any of you think that the PCCC is anything but a quasi union,I would like to thank ftsu for this excellent research:
"Had a response back from a nice man at the certification office. It appears the Pccc's newfound union status is rather less concrete than it would appear.
As they have declined to be listed, at a small cost of £150, then there are limited investigations carried out as to whether it is indeed a trade union or not. To appear on the "schedule" of trade unions and not the "list" is not sufficient evidence to qualify as a trade union in a court of law.
Additionally, no checks are carried out as to whether the "union" is independent or not. This is only dobe after a request for a "certificate of independence" is received.
So to summarise.
The pccc may not be a trade union
If it is then it is NOT considered to be independent by the certification office."
"Had a response back from a nice man at the certification office. It appears the Pccc's newfound union status is rather less concrete than it would appear.
As they have declined to be listed, at a small cost of £150, then there are limited investigations carried out as to whether it is indeed a trade union or not. To appear on the "schedule" of trade unions and not the "list" is not sufficient evidence to qualify as a trade union in a court of law.
Additionally, no checks are carried out as to whether the "union" is independent or not. This is only dobe after a request for a "certificate of independence" is received.
So to summarise.
The pccc may not be a trade union
If it is then it is NOT considered to be independent by the certification office."
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CCCP, Nothing is forever, sometimes it is wise to give the benefit of the doubt instead of keep fighting for a lost cause, BA can predict exactly when the last present T & C employee will peacefully terminate their contract with the company they don t want or need any fighting.
The choice is ours and I hope you ll be able to accept the consequences of your actions and decisions as much as I am prepared to do so myself.
Time will tell.
The choice is ours and I hope you ll be able to accept the consequences of your actions and decisions as much as I am prepared to do so myself.
Time will tell.
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The centrepiece of BA's plan to reduce costs is to destroy the 1948 Redeployment Agreement.
In short this agreement ensures that wages and therefore pensions can never be reduced. Rather than scrap this agreement in one go, which would probably trigger company-wide strike action, BA intends to nibble round the edges and gradually do away with the agreement section by section.
The current plan to create a two-tier workforce among cabin crew is a case in point. BA intends to make 3,000 redundancies through setting up the new MF of cabin crew.
This new fleet will be on reduced wages and therefore pensions. Any promotion or redeployment from the old, better paid fleet will be into the new fleet on worse pay etc. This process will then allow BA to reduce the pay to cabin crew over a number of years.
Since cabin crew make up one-third of staff this will make a significant dent in BA's pension contributions and would put the company in a powerful position to use similar tactics against the rest of the workforce.....especially the pilots.
Those of you who have signed new contracts will be Fast Tracked off of the 1948 Redeployment Agreement. That is the price you will pay for being weak-willed, uninformed and basically, pathetically naive.
In short this agreement ensures that wages and therefore pensions can never be reduced. Rather than scrap this agreement in one go, which would probably trigger company-wide strike action, BA intends to nibble round the edges and gradually do away with the agreement section by section.
The current plan to create a two-tier workforce among cabin crew is a case in point. BA intends to make 3,000 redundancies through setting up the new MF of cabin crew.
This new fleet will be on reduced wages and therefore pensions. Any promotion or redeployment from the old, better paid fleet will be into the new fleet on worse pay etc. This process will then allow BA to reduce the pay to cabin crew over a number of years.
Since cabin crew make up one-third of staff this will make a significant dent in BA's pension contributions and would put the company in a powerful position to use similar tactics against the rest of the workforce.....especially the pilots.
Those of you who have signed new contracts will be Fast Tracked off of the 1948 Redeployment Agreement. That is the price you will pay for being weak-willed, uninformed and basically, pathetically naive.
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That is the price you will pay for being weak willed, uninformed and basically pathetically naive.
Each member of staff has the right to chose their own path, in your view short term gain and long term pain. Perhaps this will be so...
The predictions from BASSA over the last 2 years have not had the best record though, so it's not that surprising that people are less inclined to listen. The difference between a simple lie, incorrect prediction and truth is often best revealed by time alone.
...and the passing of time has revealed much about BASSA, little of which was good.
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cccp
A serious question if I may. Why do you back BASSA and its archaic stance, a leader with his own agenda, and, furthermore, what do you think a strike will achieve especially with close to zero support (and anger) from staff, the media and public alike in an era of austerity?
Thanks for being on here. It's vital that we understand the BASSA mindset though Ive totally failed in that regard, even after all this time.
Thank you
Thanks for being on here. It's vital that we understand the BASSA mindset though Ive totally failed in that regard, even after all this time.
Thank you
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If none of you can work out the companies strategy and think that you will spend the rest of your careers on your current T&C's, then my observations in my last post are correct.
If you have signed either BF1 or BF2 (the latest offer), you no longer have the protection of the 1948 Redeployment Agreement.
The many BA flight crew who pontificate on this forum about cabin crew matters, only have their current pension provisions thankls to the Redeployment Agreement. Do you think they would sign a new offer and risk losing those gold plated pensions. Don't forget BA flight crew are only 7% of the workforce but represent 25% of payrole and pension costs. I would not be so naive as to suggest that they will be immune from Willie's attentions in the future, when he has finished with the cabin crew.
If you have signed either BF1 or BF2 (the latest offer), you no longer have the protection of the 1948 Redeployment Agreement.
The many BA flight crew who pontificate on this forum about cabin crew matters, only have their current pension provisions thankls to the Redeployment Agreement. Do you think they would sign a new offer and risk losing those gold plated pensions. Don't forget BA flight crew are only 7% of the workforce but represent 25% of payrole and pension costs. I would not be so naive as to suggest that they will be immune from Willie's attentions in the future, when he has finished with the cabin crew.
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CCCP,
Utter myth and you know it. Anyone signing the offer from BA still benefits from all current agreements in force. The re-deployment agreement has not been changed for certain groups of staff and, indeed, I'm sure you'll know there have been meetings at BATUC level in order to try and negotiate a company-wide agreement on this very subject. You demean your argument with the usual, borderline hysterical, BASSA scaremongering which is long on rhetoric and short on actual, verifiable fact. Sadly for those that wish their argument to be taken seriously, it's not the first time and, I'm guessing it won't be the last in this long, sorry dispute.
And, albeit off topic, we know that we're always in the company's sights for cost savings. It'd be naive and foolish to assume otherwise. Look where that sort of behaviour has got some.
MrB
Utter myth and you know it. Anyone signing the offer from BA still benefits from all current agreements in force. The re-deployment agreement has not been changed for certain groups of staff and, indeed, I'm sure you'll know there have been meetings at BATUC level in order to try and negotiate a company-wide agreement on this very subject. You demean your argument with the usual, borderline hysterical, BASSA scaremongering which is long on rhetoric and short on actual, verifiable fact. Sadly for those that wish their argument to be taken seriously, it's not the first time and, I'm guessing it won't be the last in this long, sorry dispute.
And, albeit off topic, we know that we're always in the company's sights for cost savings. It'd be naive and foolish to assume otherwise. Look where that sort of behaviour has got some.
MrB
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PCCC,
Which is it to be? You've managed, neatly, to sidestep the point I made which was that you wrote an untruth when you said that anyone signing the new agreement had signed away their rights under the redeployment agreement. They haven't. The paperwork with the offer clearly states as such. Ergo, I can only assume that it's either a) wishful thinking on your part, b) a malicious desire to scaremonger without basis in fact or c) that you are so indoctrinated that you believe what you want to believe regardless of any evidence in front of you and others.
BA have made no secret about their desire to renegotiate careerlink and the redeployment agreement. Indeed, as I tried to allude to politely, if you'd kept abreast of negotiations across the company, this has been discussed at a multi-TU level. Guess who didn't want to play whilst there?
As for your other wild-eyed speculations, we'll leave those for another thread as, again, you'll know full well from the restrained input of the moderators, that this thread is not about fulfilling your lust for seeing the metaphorical blood of pilots being spilled.
MrB
Which is it to be? You've managed, neatly, to sidestep the point I made which was that you wrote an untruth when you said that anyone signing the new agreement had signed away their rights under the redeployment agreement. They haven't. The paperwork with the offer clearly states as such. Ergo, I can only assume that it's either a) wishful thinking on your part, b) a malicious desire to scaremonger without basis in fact or c) that you are so indoctrinated that you believe what you want to believe regardless of any evidence in front of you and others.
BA have made no secret about their desire to renegotiate careerlink and the redeployment agreement. Indeed, as I tried to allude to politely, if you'd kept abreast of negotiations across the company, this has been discussed at a multi-TU level. Guess who didn't want to play whilst there?
As for your other wild-eyed speculations, we'll leave those for another thread as, again, you'll know full well from the restrained input of the moderators, that this thread is not about fulfilling your lust for seeing the metaphorical blood of pilots being spilled.
MrB
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Re the utter reluctance of the leaders of the PCCC to identify themselves. If the PCCC is to be responsible for collective bargaining rights for the mixed fleet crew, agreeing and setting the t&cs for this group; would it be something of an embarrassment to discover that the negotiators were enjoying other, more beneficial, agreements on BA's 'legacy' fleets, and could benefit from improvements negotiated by Unite, a union they no longer support.