BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Ottergirl,
Yes thats probably why I got my figures so badly wrong. Seems longhaul is a totally differant animal to eurofleet. I also agree that a lot of the crew who didn't vote had left the union, but still got a ballot form. I know a lot of that catorgory. Anyway DH has 21 days from the 21st Jan to reveal his options. He must be going through all the differant battles and wars in history as we speak, to give him ideas
Yes thats probably why I got my figures so badly wrong. Seems longhaul is a totally differant animal to eurofleet. I also agree that a lot of the crew who didn't vote had left the union, but still got a ballot form. I know a lot of that catorgory. Anyway DH has 21 days from the 21st Jan to reveal his options. He must be going through all the differant battles and wars in history as we speak, to give him ideas
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Ottergirl,
it is very difficult to gauge the general attitude on Worldwide. Nobody is talking about the result of the ballot. I do think however that some of the 'NO' votes must have come from our fleet. At least I'd like to think so.
it is very difficult to gauge the general attitude on Worldwide. Nobody is talking about the result of the ballot. I do think however that some of the 'NO' votes must have come from our fleet. At least I'd like to think so.
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He must be going through all the differant battles and wars in history as we speak, to give him ideas
I do think however that some of the 'NO' votes must have come from our fleet. At least I'd like to think so.
It's harder for you guys on WW not being able to talk about whats going on and must make for some difficult moments in the bar downroute. On Eurofleet we seem to end up talking about it alot, whatever side everyone is on; doesn't seem to be a problem discussing it with the Flight crew either once the 'dancing on eggshells' bit is over with. On a long band 4 day on the 767 I generally will know which way each crew member has voted by the time we clear.
Last edited by ottergirl; 25th Jan 2011 at 13:20. Reason: dreadful spelling
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I agree, most people on WW don't really talk about it now.
Conversations I have had or have heard of seem to be of a much more mature approach. Listening and respecting individual views. Many don't even touch on individual views, the conversations are more general....'what do think is going to happen?'. Many even admitting that, in hindsight, BASSA have cocked things up.
I think that people are bored of the whole charade.
There are a minority who still want to feed on the doom and gloom and quite frankly, so long as they perform onboard, let them get on with it!!
Conversations I have had or have heard of seem to be of a much more mature approach. Listening and respecting individual views. Many don't even touch on individual views, the conversations are more general....'what do think is going to happen?'. Many even admitting that, in hindsight, BASSA have cocked things up.
I think that people are bored of the whole charade.
There are a minority who still want to feed on the doom and gloom and quite frankly, so long as they perform onboard, let them get on with it!!
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latest from Len.......
Len Mclunkey, fresh from trying (and failing) to expel BALPA from the TUC, now wants their support!! You couldn't make it up.
British Airways Cabin Crew Ask Pilots to Stop Undermining Strike - Bloomberg
British Airways Cabin Crew Ask Pilots to Stop Undermining Strike - Bloomberg
British Airways Plc’s cabin-crew union has asked pilots to stop undermining a two-year campaign over pay and staffing levels by volunteering as emergency flight attendants during strike action, according to the cockpit union.
Unite General Secretary Len McCluskey has written to Jim McAuslan, his counterpart at the British Airline Pilots’ Association, to appeal for support, McAuslan said today in an interview in London. Some union officials have “lost the plot” over the dispute and Balpa plans to stay neutral, he said.
“We will not be encouraging our members to support the strike action, neither will we be chastising them for doing so or encouraging anyone to do the work of other staff,” he said, adding that were pilots to be consulted there would be “an overwhelming vote against supporting the cabin crew.”
A return to industrial action was backed by more than 78 percent of 7,330 flight attendants who voted in a month-long poll, Unite said Jan. 21. While the union wants talks rather than an immediate strike, British Airways says it’s not prepared to modify existing proposals and will use rented planes and stand-in staff from across the company to beat any walkout.
Contingency plans developed by Willie Walsh, the BA chief who heads International Consolidated Airlines Group SA following the carrier’s merger with Iberia Lineas Aereas de Espana SA, are likely to hold up well, with support from most employee groups, McAuslan said. British Airways succeeded in keeping flights operating during five strikes spanning 22 days last year.
Rift Concern
McAuslan said he’s concerned that a rift is developing between flight attendant and pilots as Unite’s BASSA division, which represents cabin crew, holds out for a better deal from the airline after blocking a settlement in November.
“Unite is the prisoner of a branch that’s lost the plot a bit and cabin crew who have been badly led are frustrated,” he said. “But at the end of all of this flight and cabin crew need to work together. This is a safety critical industry.”
Unite has no comment on Balpa’s remarks, spokeswoman Pauline Doyle said by telephone. The union’s leadership aims to meet with cabin-crew representatives later this week to determine the next course of action, she said.
Pilots will begin negotiating a new pay deal of their own in the spring, McAuslan said at the briefing.
Unite General Secretary Len McCluskey has written to Jim McAuslan, his counterpart at the British Airline Pilots’ Association, to appeal for support, McAuslan said today in an interview in London. Some union officials have “lost the plot” over the dispute and Balpa plans to stay neutral, he said.
“We will not be encouraging our members to support the strike action, neither will we be chastising them for doing so or encouraging anyone to do the work of other staff,” he said, adding that were pilots to be consulted there would be “an overwhelming vote against supporting the cabin crew.”
A return to industrial action was backed by more than 78 percent of 7,330 flight attendants who voted in a month-long poll, Unite said Jan. 21. While the union wants talks rather than an immediate strike, British Airways says it’s not prepared to modify existing proposals and will use rented planes and stand-in staff from across the company to beat any walkout.
Contingency plans developed by Willie Walsh, the BA chief who heads International Consolidated Airlines Group SA following the carrier’s merger with Iberia Lineas Aereas de Espana SA, are likely to hold up well, with support from most employee groups, McAuslan said. British Airways succeeded in keeping flights operating during five strikes spanning 22 days last year.
Rift Concern
McAuslan said he’s concerned that a rift is developing between flight attendant and pilots as Unite’s BASSA division, which represents cabin crew, holds out for a better deal from the airline after blocking a settlement in November.
“Unite is the prisoner of a branch that’s lost the plot a bit and cabin crew who have been badly led are frustrated,” he said. “But at the end of all of this flight and cabin crew need to work together. This is a safety critical industry.”
Unite has no comment on Balpa’s remarks, spokeswoman Pauline Doyle said by telephone. The union’s leadership aims to meet with cabin-crew representatives later this week to determine the next course of action, she said.
Pilots will begin negotiating a new pay deal of their own in the spring, McAuslan said at the briefing.
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do you think BA will be in a position to fly a lot more shorthaul flights than during the last strike?
Yes I do! I think they could have operated a lot more last time as the TV room was stuffed full of crew on standby but they were already committed to the wet-lease deals they had set up. In the end, they were sending real crew and VCCs home because the CRC was at capacity and they had run out of mobile phones. They used some Eurofleeters to cover TLV and Calgary as well. On the second wave, some of the strikers from the first came in so they had even more crew to choose from. I would hope that BA wouldn't be so quick with the wet-lease next time.
OG
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Thanks, Ottergirl. That's very interesting. If I was representing my fellow union members I would think very carefully about what another strike would or could achieve.
Bassa is on the brink of becoming completely irrelevant. That would be the worst possible outcome of this dispute. In fact it could put the future of all legacy crew at risk. Is it not time to admit that the current battle has been lost and concentrate on damage control?
Bassa is on the brink of becoming completely irrelevant. That would be the worst possible outcome of this dispute. In fact it could put the future of all legacy crew at risk. Is it not time to admit that the current battle has been lost and concentrate on damage control?
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Latest news or old news?
The latest outbursts from the Bassa Secretary are not exactly shocking news to those of us that "did give a fig" and walked away from him. It looks like, if he gets his way, that a few thousand more will now make an exodus from the Union at his command.
Everybody on here, accept a few newbies, have witnessed the posts he has publicly made about other Bassa supporters that have disagreed with him in the past 12 months. They have been humiliated and harrassed by him to the point that the Bassa Secretary was called in by LHR CID regarding his "mailcous communications" which he openly admitted was regarding his personal comments made to a particular (named) CSD in personal emails.
He sent that message, about leaving the Union now, to 1279 people. So far he has apologised to only one of them publicly on his forum.
I recall the ballot paper requesting that members were to decide upon Industrial Action in response to the 5 points of dispute. I do not recall the threat of "I will be demanding you all to leave BASSA if you dare vote NO as we only want YES voters around here from now on".
Does anyone know if all of the Bassa Reps, LH and SH, could possibly be offering their 100% backing to the Chairwoman and Secretary after this latest outburst.?
As few of us still have access to their website, we would appreciate any quotes.
Everybody on here, accept a few newbies, have witnessed the posts he has publicly made about other Bassa supporters that have disagreed with him in the past 12 months. They have been humiliated and harrassed by him to the point that the Bassa Secretary was called in by LHR CID regarding his "mailcous communications" which he openly admitted was regarding his personal comments made to a particular (named) CSD in personal emails.
He sent that message, about leaving the Union now, to 1279 people. So far he has apologised to only one of them publicly on his forum.
I recall the ballot paper requesting that members were to decide upon Industrial Action in response to the 5 points of dispute. I do not recall the threat of "I will be demanding you all to leave BASSA if you dare vote NO as we only want YES voters around here from now on".
Does anyone know if all of the Bassa Reps, LH and SH, could possibly be offering their 100% backing to the Chairwoman and Secretary after this latest outburst.?
As few of us still have access to their website, we would appreciate any quotes.
I have been 'unconnected' for a week or so and have been trying to catch up on this thread since the ballot announcement.
One thing I think has been missed is that the figures quoted for the ballot result include the Amicus members as well.
It is, for this purpose, a single workplace and all Amicus/CC89 members would have been sent a ballot paper and would be in the figures quoted.
That means that BASSA has lost far more members than has been suggested here. I think Amicus are claiming 1400ish members at BA so knock that off the BASSA figure straight away.
As for DH this must be the moment that BASSA members really need to ask the 'fat lady to sing!'
One thing I think has been missed is that the figures quoted for the ballot result include the Amicus members as well.
It is, for this purpose, a single workplace and all Amicus/CC89 members would have been sent a ballot paper and would be in the figures quoted.
That means that BASSA has lost far more members than has been suggested here. I think Amicus are claiming 1400ish members at BA so knock that off the BASSA figure straight away.
As for DH this must be the moment that BASSA members really need to ask the 'fat lady to sing!'
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Regarding Len's latest missive, he seems to have forgotten that more volunteer cabin crew members came from Unite than BALPA. 
ks from the BASSA hierarchy. It gives me the impression that he has been given selected information with regards to the dispute, complete with the hatred against pilots. Clearly not acceptable.We could very well see a dig at other VCCs but that would be a bit too close to home for him. He has to get his own house in order. This dispute has not only split the CC community, it has split the workers in his union. I think he is a stealth bomb of the union, he will probably severly diminuise the union if not destroy it completely, as he did the Liverpool docks.
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PCCC Now an OFFICIAL TRADE UNION
Just had a read on their website, they are now officially a listed Trade Union with the Certification Officer in London!.. We finally now have an alternative union...Goodbye BASSA!!..Finally people have had enough of being misled down the road to no-where!..have a look under the "news and notices" section on the website....PCCC – Professional Cabin Crew Council
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Let's look at the facts
Number of ballots sent= 10,220
Number of ballot papers returned = 7,335
Number of ballot papers found to be invalid = 5
Total number of papers counted = 7,330
Number voting YES = 5,751
Number voting NO = 1,579
Number NOT voting yes i.e. not voting or voting no = 4464
I'd be astonished if more than half of the 5751 actually withdraw their labour and a whole lot less than that if future strikes are unprotected (as is highly possible).
Assuming, as BASSA claim, that they have 80-90% membership amongst BA cabin crew, best case 3571 Unite members have not supported this action.
The Amicus branch have previously said that 250 of their 1300 members went on strike (claimed strike pay), so 1050 Unite Amicus members broke the previous strike (and only some of these are included in the 4464 figure above).
Approx 1050 crew have accepted the last company offer individually and are no longer union members.
There are approx 13,500 BA cabin crew.
BA have approximately 3000 VCC now from sections of the company that have a predominant Unite Union presence (excluding pilots). Even if only half of these employees are union members that's a further approx 1500 Unite members that are "undermining" this action.
Len's problems are far closer to home. Unite and BASSA are failing at BA where cabin crew are concerned. If Unite don't bring BASSA and Holley to heel soon BA cabin crew will leave in huge numbers. Not least due to Holley asking them to!
The papers are turning on Unite (again) too;
Daily Mail
Guardian
The million pound question is "do you feel lucky punk"?
and will strike dates be announced given this lack of support?
Number of ballot papers returned = 7,335
Number of ballot papers found to be invalid = 5
Total number of papers counted = 7,330
Number voting YES = 5,751
Number voting NO = 1,579
Number NOT voting yes i.e. not voting or voting no = 4464
I'd be astonished if more than half of the 5751 actually withdraw their labour and a whole lot less than that if future strikes are unprotected (as is highly possible).
Assuming, as BASSA claim, that they have 80-90% membership amongst BA cabin crew, best case 3571 Unite members have not supported this action.
The Amicus branch have previously said that 250 of their 1300 members went on strike (claimed strike pay), so 1050 Unite Amicus members broke the previous strike (and only some of these are included in the 4464 figure above).
Approx 1050 crew have accepted the last company offer individually and are no longer union members.
There are approx 13,500 BA cabin crew.
BA have approximately 3000 VCC now from sections of the company that have a predominant Unite Union presence (excluding pilots). Even if only half of these employees are union members that's a further approx 1500 Unite members that are "undermining" this action.
Len's problems are far closer to home. Unite and BASSA are failing at BA where cabin crew are concerned. If Unite don't bring BASSA and Holley to heel soon BA cabin crew will leave in huge numbers. Not least due to Holley asking them to!
The papers are turning on Unite (again) too;
Daily Mail
Guardian
The million pound question is "do you feel lucky punk"?
and will strike dates be announced given this lack of support?
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BASSAwitch:
I notice in the Daily Mail there is a direct quote from the PCCC. Very interesting then you should mention that if Unite don't bring DH to heel they will leave in huge numbers. Especially with today being the day that the PCCC have been listed on the Schedule of Trade Unions.
After DH's command to leave at least now these members who have stayed in a 'bad' union like BASSA rather than no union at all have a fresh alternative?
I notice in the Daily Mail there is a direct quote from the PCCC. Very interesting then you should mention that if Unite don't bring DH to heel they will leave in huge numbers. Especially with today being the day that the PCCC have been listed on the Schedule of Trade Unions.
After DH's command to leave at least now these members who have stayed in a 'bad' union like BASSA rather than no union at all have a fresh alternative?
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certification office
Chigley,
Not sure what you meant so I looked it up....
Certification Officer- List of Trade Unions
Are you saying PCCC are now registered here?
Confused, as the list seems to be up to date to March 2010. Maybe they joined after this date? If so a very important step and at last an alternative to BASSA/CC89 who have really lost their way.
Any PCCC people able to comment?
Not sure what you meant so I looked it up....
Certification Officer- List of Trade Unions
Are you saying PCCC are now registered here?
Confused, as the list seems to be up to date to March 2010. Maybe they joined after this date? If so a very important step and at last an alternative to BASSA/CC89 who have really lost their way.
Any PCCC people able to comment?
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Hi Bassawitch:
Yes thats correct. Not sure why the list at the certification office dates back to March 2010, but it is official. You can find out more on the homepage on the PCCC website. And yes it's a very important step and a great sense of relief for many of us who feel they have not been fairly represented.
Yes thats correct. Not sure why the list at the certification office dates back to March 2010, but it is official. You can find out more on the homepage on the PCCC website. And yes it's a very important step and a great sense of relief for many of us who feel they have not been fairly represented.
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BASSAwitch
The Professional Cabin Crew Council did not apply to be listed. The Certification Office has added us to the list of the Schedule of Trade Unions as you can see here:
The official certification office website. We provide information regarding trade unions, employers' associations, political funds, employment relations and more.
This verifies that, contrary to BASSA rantings, we are completely independent from BA, we are not management. We are cabin crew who believe that BASSA have misled our entire community.
With over 6000 crew NOT voting in favour of strike action, our community is crying out for change. The PCCC intends to ensure that happens.
The Professional Cabin Crew Council did not apply to be listed. The Certification Office has added us to the list of the Schedule of Trade Unions as you can see here:
The official certification office website. We provide information regarding trade unions, employers' associations, political funds, employment relations and more.
This verifies that, contrary to BASSA rantings, we are completely independent from BA, we are not management. We are cabin crew who believe that BASSA have misled our entire community.
With over 6000 crew NOT voting in favour of strike action, our community is crying out for change. The PCCC intends to ensure that happens.
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PCCC
Firstly, my congratulations to the PCCC team.
However....a couple of questions:
Firstly, on the 'news' section of the website it says "The PCCC is now an Officially Listed TRADE UNION", but on the 'About' section it leads with "Firstly, we are not a Union." Can someone explain?
Secondly,I find it hard to believe that a 'Union' can be officially recognised if all the personnel remain anonymous. I fully understand the desire to remain anonymous; I cannot understand how an organisation can be officially listed as a Trade Union whilst retaining its anonymity.
However....a couple of questions:
Firstly, on the 'news' section of the website it says "The PCCC is now an Officially Listed TRADE UNION", but on the 'About' section it leads with "Firstly, we are not a Union." Can someone explain?
Secondly,I find it hard to believe that a 'Union' can be officially recognised if all the personnel remain anonymous. I fully understand the desire to remain anonymous; I cannot understand how an organisation can be officially listed as a Trade Union whilst retaining its anonymity.
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That's wonderful news HiFlyer. I bet there are hundreds, if not thousands of crew that will join you now.
Please, please, please publicise this fact and come out of the shadows. We need to see that you're real, hard working crew that care about your employer and want a fair deal for a fair day's work. So typical of MOST crew I come across. The militants have made too much noise and done the cabin crew community a HUGE disservice.
And by the looks of what's written on your website, you have more brains than the entire BASSA committee combined.
Please, please, please publicise this fact and come out of the shadows. We need to see that you're real, hard working crew that care about your employer and want a fair deal for a fair day's work. So typical of MOST crew I come across. The militants have made too much noise and done the cabin crew community a HUGE disservice.
And by the looks of what's written on your website, you have more brains than the entire BASSA committee combined.
