BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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I am sure you could say that you sent a letter to BASSA resigning two or three months ago..........does anyone think that BASSA are very good at keeping records?
I do tend to come on here and post more when I am stressed about the situation at work, sorry if I am beginning to bore some of you!!! Because I am obviously stressed as I am on here all the time at the mo!!
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Unfortunately since the days when BASSA and the groundstaff unions used to rule the roost
the world has changed somewhat.Unions are there to look after terms and conditions of their members -not run the company.
the world has changed somewhat.Unions are there to look after terms and conditions of their members -not run the company.
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misscanada
Bettygirl
Been feeling a bit down myself lately: would someone post some up to date ramblings from DH, as mentioned a couple of pages ago, so as to cheer me up. The real world can get a little tough at times but a little fantasy can sometimes brighten all our days.
Been feeling a bit down myself lately: would someone post some up to date ramblings from DH, as mentioned a couple of pages ago, so as to cheer me up. The real world can get a little tough at times but a little fantasy can sometimes brighten all our days.
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If you look at the Passengers and Self Loading Freight thread a bit further down bellow all the cabin crew threads on the main page, it was posted a few days ago on there, post 1466. In the British airways-Strike-your thoughts thread.
Hope that helps. Not sure it will cheer you up though!!!!
Hope that helps. Not sure it will cheer you up though!!!!
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misscanada
Thank you Bettygirl,
Oh the emotion: roofs raised, houses being brought down, horses clapping, men wearing Y fronts, (and externally). Duncan truly did bring the 'tears to the eye' emotions of an intelligent gathering of sane people seriously discussing their futures and the actions of their leaders to the fore.
Damn it, just realised what's going on here. European, post existentialist, super surrealist film script in black and white!
Honestly have made me feel better.
PS Still feel sorry for all the decent, though deluded, crew.
Oh the emotion: roofs raised, houses being brought down, horses clapping, men wearing Y fronts, (and externally). Duncan truly did bring the 'tears to the eye' emotions of an intelligent gathering of sane people seriously discussing their futures and the actions of their leaders to the fore.
Damn it, just realised what's going on here. European, post existentialist, super surrealist film script in black and white!
Honestly have made me feel better.
PS Still feel sorry for all the decent, though deluded, crew.
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Stormin
Stormins post above summarises perfectly the dispute....and it will only end when Bassa realise that they are there to look after their members, not run their department of the company.
If BA produced an offer tomorrow to Bassa for a £20k pay rise, a Maserati company car (or maybe M3's hehe) and rostering only when they felt like working, but with full pay and allowances, they would still reject it and not put it to their members...and how many of their members would reject that offer? This dispute has never been about cc, it's always been about Bassa's power....
If BA produced an offer tomorrow to Bassa for a £20k pay rise, a Maserati company car (or maybe M3's hehe) and rostering only when they felt like working, but with full pay and allowances, they would still reject it and not put it to their members...and how many of their members would reject that offer? This dispute has never been about cc, it's always been about Bassa's power....
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Betty Girl,
I know it is stressful at the moment but it is important to keep grounded (so to speak!). I too am cabin crew and, I too left the union in disagreement of all that was proposed. At the time, the BA team were looking for ways to recognise those crew who had taken the hard, but morally correct action (in this particular instance), of crossing the picket line and coming into work. Now, prior to so doing, we all had to make a serious choice – to stay in the union or to resign? It was a bit of a dilemma for me initially, as I felt why should I resign from the union, when I was simply disagreeing with the way they were handling a particular issue? However, after much thought and discussion, I concluded that resignation was the only route possible – as I KNEW I would be coming to work. The reason that was the only route possible was that – as part of a democratic voting process, if the majority had voted ‘yes’ and I was a ‘no’ - then I would have been duty bound to follow the majority vote and strike – therefore there was no option but to resign.
Presumably, the people whom you very kindly feel sorry for, who are still in the union would have had to have done some pretty stiff soul-searching and would have been faced with the same difficult decision? HOWEVER, (and in that word it all lies, IMHO) their decision was to stay; having had all the ‘facts’, all the behaviour, all the dramas , all the rhetoric etc, etc, etc. So whilst I take on board that indeed there was an agreed procedure and in an ideal world this should be adhered to, sadly thanks to union antics, all bets are off. I have to say I cannot wholeheartedly disagree with BA choosing to recognise those who were prepared to stand up and be counted, incidentally not to ‘keep in with the company’ but out of moral obligation and personal accountability. I say all this without any knowledge whatsoever as to whether there HAS been any preferential treatment (indeed, my number on the list has not moved for over a year!); if, in fact, there has been, then whilst I am a strong protagonist of fair play (who isn’t?!) then, as I say, I can see where BA are coming from. I cannot see, despite pleas of ‘”we are staying in the union to vote ‘no’ “ where this school of thought is coming from? Unfortunately, It seems to have had no bearing thus far. I hope to be proved wrong!
I know it is stressful at the moment but it is important to keep grounded (so to speak!). I too am cabin crew and, I too left the union in disagreement of all that was proposed. At the time, the BA team were looking for ways to recognise those crew who had taken the hard, but morally correct action (in this particular instance), of crossing the picket line and coming into work. Now, prior to so doing, we all had to make a serious choice – to stay in the union or to resign? It was a bit of a dilemma for me initially, as I felt why should I resign from the union, when I was simply disagreeing with the way they were handling a particular issue? However, after much thought and discussion, I concluded that resignation was the only route possible – as I KNEW I would be coming to work. The reason that was the only route possible was that – as part of a democratic voting process, if the majority had voted ‘yes’ and I was a ‘no’ - then I would have been duty bound to follow the majority vote and strike – therefore there was no option but to resign.
Presumably, the people whom you very kindly feel sorry for, who are still in the union would have had to have done some pretty stiff soul-searching and would have been faced with the same difficult decision? HOWEVER, (and in that word it all lies, IMHO) their decision was to stay; having had all the ‘facts’, all the behaviour, all the dramas , all the rhetoric etc, etc, etc. So whilst I take on board that indeed there was an agreed procedure and in an ideal world this should be adhered to, sadly thanks to union antics, all bets are off. I have to say I cannot wholeheartedly disagree with BA choosing to recognise those who were prepared to stand up and be counted, incidentally not to ‘keep in with the company’ but out of moral obligation and personal accountability. I say all this without any knowledge whatsoever as to whether there HAS been any preferential treatment (indeed, my number on the list has not moved for over a year!); if, in fact, there has been, then whilst I am a strong protagonist of fair play (who isn’t?!) then, as I say, I can see where BA are coming from. I cannot see, despite pleas of ‘”we are staying in the union to vote ‘no’ “ where this school of thought is coming from? Unfortunately, It seems to have had no bearing thus far. I hope to be proved wrong!
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I've been browsing these threads for some time and thought I'd sign up for my sixpenn'orth. OK so I'm not cabin crew. I'm an IT bod. Looking at the suggestion that as BASSA's records are in disarray, anyone could claim to have left the union by Dec 14th and get away with it, um....No. That date of Dec 14th coincides with the close date for docs to Pay Services. If you hadn't notified Pay Office by then, they would pay the subs to BASSA in the pay run. BA would know who had paid out subs to BASSA and who hadn't. They could not turn a blind eye as this would leave them open to charges of inducing members to leave the union. So far BA management seem to have been pretty canny in how they've played this dispute. Can't see them losing the plot now, particularly as HR is now under the same wing as Legal.
Does sound a bit like BA management are pushing the edge of the envelope though with the part time deal. Bound to inflame the union side. I just wonder if there is a change in tone from Unite's leadership though. They sound less strident in the past few days, having stated that strikes won't take place over the Easter weekend or Royal wedding. If so will they be able to rein in BASSA to play ball ?
Does sound a bit like BA management are pushing the edge of the envelope though with the part time deal. Bound to inflame the union side. I just wonder if there is a change in tone from Unite's leadership though. They sound less strident in the past few days, having stated that strikes won't take place over the Easter weekend or Royal wedding. If so will they be able to rein in BASSA to play ball ?
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Missyminx,
I left the union for the same reasons as you and I thought hard and long too.
I don't personally feel I need a reward for coming to work even though it was stressful and I like many am furious with the way Bassa and Amicus have used the mandate of our community and represented us all so badly.
However I feel the removal of staff travel as a punishment has only prolonged and made this dispute longer and more nasty and this next stage of treating people who signed up to the individual agreement different to all others is yet something else for people to feel hard done by.
It's a real shame that those that do accept these transfers will most likely feel unable to admit to being new to their new fleet, for fear of being labeled a non-striker and singled out on a flight. So unfortunately I feel it is not only the strikers that will be affected.
Anyway I live in hope that it will be sorted soon. After all the London Fire Brigade have finally got an agreement to new shift patterns and it only took them 6 years!!!!
I left the union for the same reasons as you and I thought hard and long too.
I don't personally feel I need a reward for coming to work even though it was stressful and I like many am furious with the way Bassa and Amicus have used the mandate of our community and represented us all so badly.
However I feel the removal of staff travel as a punishment has only prolonged and made this dispute longer and more nasty and this next stage of treating people who signed up to the individual agreement different to all others is yet something else for people to feel hard done by.
It's a real shame that those that do accept these transfers will most likely feel unable to admit to being new to their new fleet, for fear of being labeled a non-striker and singled out on a flight. So unfortunately I feel it is not only the strikers that will be affected.
Anyway I live in hope that it will be sorted soon. After all the London Fire Brigade have finally got an agreement to new shift patterns and it only took them 6 years!!!!
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Betty Girl
From what I have read about this dispute and previous ones, this is not the first time that BA management have removed staff travel from people going on strike. The big difference is that on the previous occasion it was returned fairly quickly as the dispute was settled shortly afterwards. This time around the stakes were raised, with BA saying that anyone who went on strike would lose staff travel forever. Harsh ? Maybe, but it was a very clear warning given when the strike ballot was set in motion. Having given that warning, BA management had to follow through or been seen as weak. Maybe the error was in issuing the warning in the first place, but what alternative was there ? BASSA were threatening to bring the airline to a standstill. If you hold a gun to someone's head you have to accept that they may hit back just as hard.
As far as not returning staff travel goes, there are many outside of cabin crew who are frankly livid at how one group of workers have been seen to undermine all the sacrifices that 30,000 others have made. I'm not sure whether cabin crew are quite aware of the level of cuts that other departments have gone through. My department shed staff and we have seen no pay award for the past two years. Other areas of BA have made staff reapply for their jobs, only there aren't as many of them now. A scale staff have also had a pay freeze. In real terms that means we've seen take the buying power of our home pay drop by 6% . We all made managed to reduce employee costs in real terms. The best that the cabin crew unions could come up with was a loan and that was after months of prevarication. BASSA and CC89 have done cabin crew a huge disservice.
I do have admiration for those who did not go on strike and left the union. It is a pity that BA management are unable to make any gesture of appreciation as that would be immediately snapped up by Unite as discriminatory.
From what I have read about this dispute and previous ones, this is not the first time that BA management have removed staff travel from people going on strike. The big difference is that on the previous occasion it was returned fairly quickly as the dispute was settled shortly afterwards. This time around the stakes were raised, with BA saying that anyone who went on strike would lose staff travel forever. Harsh ? Maybe, but it was a very clear warning given when the strike ballot was set in motion. Having given that warning, BA management had to follow through or been seen as weak. Maybe the error was in issuing the warning in the first place, but what alternative was there ? BASSA were threatening to bring the airline to a standstill. If you hold a gun to someone's head you have to accept that they may hit back just as hard.
As far as not returning staff travel goes, there are many outside of cabin crew who are frankly livid at how one group of workers have been seen to undermine all the sacrifices that 30,000 others have made. I'm not sure whether cabin crew are quite aware of the level of cuts that other departments have gone through. My department shed staff and we have seen no pay award for the past two years. Other areas of BA have made staff reapply for their jobs, only there aren't as many of them now. A scale staff have also had a pay freeze. In real terms that means we've seen take the buying power of our home pay drop by 6% . We all made managed to reduce employee costs in real terms. The best that the cabin crew unions could come up with was a loan and that was after months of prevarication. BASSA and CC89 have done cabin crew a huge disservice.
I do have admiration for those who did not go on strike and left the union. It is a pity that BA management are unable to make any gesture of appreciation as that would be immediately snapped up by Unite as discriminatory.
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Bettygirl said
Bettygirl, I don't know how well you know DH, but I can tell you straightthat if ST had been returned in full, he would have seen it as a foot in the door and would then simply move to the next agenda, eg; that all the sacked nd suspended are reinstated. If that was agreed, he would then move to the next agenda etc, until HE and his cronies were back in charge. Remember, the 5 issues that Bassa have put down for a strike this time are according to DH just the starting point ie, these 5 points MUST be FULLY agreed by BA and then and only then will Bassa start talking to BA on everything else. I can tell you that whoever has briefed WW ( I think I know who it may be ) has known what Bassa and particularly DH have been up to for years. They know that if you give DH an inch, you are setting yourself up for a bigger problem in the future. That is the way his mind 'works'
I have to be honest that I was amazed WW gave the strikers anything back on the ST front, but have to say I believe it to be the right decision. Back in full, no way, sorry
However I feel the removal of staff travel as a punishment has only prolonged and made this dispute longer and more nasty
I have to be honest that I was amazed WW gave the strikers anything back on the ST front, but have to say I believe it to be the right decision. Back in full, no way, sorry
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DH has no interest in ending this dispute. He is in the rather bizarre position of having no jepoardy as to the outcome whatsoever. His track record with Unite is not the best and, as such, he has a rather sadistic and self centerd interest in prolonging the dispute to cause as much harm as possible to his former employer.
As has been said before the moderate CC seem to be the victims in all of this and I hope it can be sorted out soon.
As has been said before the moderate CC seem to be the victims in all of this and I hope it can be sorted out soon.
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Ops & Choice.....
I think missyminx your suspicions regarding preferential treatment being given to non strikers may be correct? A thread was started last night on the BASSA forum merely stating that the poster (a striker) had received an email from BA offering them p/t. This morning this post has been removed?
It's possible that the quote DH used in his scaremongering was apparently from a crew members CTM, maybe simply a case of an ill-informed manager rather than IFCE's new procedure to punish strikers? Who knows, but after all the other lies BASSA have told I will reserve judgement until there is solid proof one way or another.
It's possible that the quote DH used in his scaremongering was apparently from a crew members CTM, maybe simply a case of an ill-informed manager rather than IFCE's new procedure to punish strikers? Who knows, but after all the other lies BASSA have told I will reserve judgement until there is solid proof one way or another.
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bemused
From having a quick look at the recent posts,it appears that Bassa are solely the ones to blame in this dispute.However from speaking to many c/c (strikers and non strikers), the general feeling seems to be very different.
For starters since 1997 c/c have significantly participated in cost reduction by reluctantly accepting the creation of a new contract with a basic pay scale ranging from £8000 to £15000.This alone generated a substantial savings for the company, I also understand that part of the 1997 agreement was the removal of certain payments.Long day and box payments were awarded after a substantially longer duty than what it used to be, petrol allowance was removed to name but a few.
In 2001 many c/c with Bassa's approval accepted a permanent contract reduction moving from full time to 75% or 50% contract.
In 2008/2009 VR was offered and not everybody who asked for it was given it, the same with part time many people have been waiting patiently to be offered it, assuming that the economic downturn would give them the opportunity to reduce their hours.In most companies this alone would be perceived as a collaborative workforce willing to help their employer in difficult times.Yet, these facts are completely overlooked and the blame is strictly apportioned to Bassa.Why?
For starters since 1997 c/c have significantly participated in cost reduction by reluctantly accepting the creation of a new contract with a basic pay scale ranging from £8000 to £15000.This alone generated a substantial savings for the company, I also understand that part of the 1997 agreement was the removal of certain payments.Long day and box payments were awarded after a substantially longer duty than what it used to be, petrol allowance was removed to name but a few.
In 2001 many c/c with Bassa's approval accepted a permanent contract reduction moving from full time to 75% or 50% contract.
In 2008/2009 VR was offered and not everybody who asked for it was given it, the same with part time many people have been waiting patiently to be offered it, assuming that the economic downturn would give them the opportunity to reduce their hours.In most companies this alone would be perceived as a collaborative workforce willing to help their employer in difficult times.Yet, these facts are completely overlooked and the blame is strictly apportioned to Bassa.Why?
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There is your answer...
From having a quick look at the recent posts
Until you've read it all and not just "had a quick look", you cannot really make the statement you've made with any foundation.
If you go back further you will find many balanced posts from both pro and anti BASSA angles, and many neutral observations.
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You need to read more...
But you're asking a question:
about how you think they are being perceived, and you want it answered, what only on the last 10 comments? There is much balance on this thread, and it is well moderated, but you can't just be selective about posts when you ask a very wide reaching question.
Yet, these facts are completely overlooked and the blame is strictly apportioned to Bassa.Why?