BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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MissM
I have been doing some reading on disruption due to bad weather and there has been opinion that "a proportionate means to meet a legitimate aim" which may be recovering from disruption, could be seen as a SOSR defense for an unfair dismissal claim.
This is a rather truncated explanation and is my personal view, so feel free to rip it to shreds!
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BA seem to be good at suspending and sacking crew for many reasons.
The DA, as we have been told, appears to be contractual and adheres to our agreements.
As much as I hate being stuck downroute after a diversion, and the inconvenice caused to our customers (believe it or not but myself and many crew care) for a long time, I'm actually pleased to see that BASSA have agreed to a reduction of it. 2 local nights downroute was only made as a solution from our LR agreement.
We are not all selfish.
The DA, as we have been told, appears to be contractual and adheres to our agreements.
As much as I hate being stuck downroute after a diversion, and the inconvenice caused to our customers (believe it or not but myself and many crew care) for a long time, I'm actually pleased to see that BASSA have agreed to a reduction of it. 2 local nights downroute was only made as a solution from our LR agreement.
We are not all selfish.
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Surrey Towers
Because some of us have created ourselves a career with BA and brought the company to where it is today. We are not going to let a selfish CEO destroy what we have achieved for his selfish reasons.
We are a strong community.
Because some of us have created ourselves a career with BA and brought the company to where it is today. We are not going to let a selfish CEO destroy what we have achieved for his selfish reasons.
We are a strong community.
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Originally Posted by MissM
Why did not BA bother to approach BASSA to have the DA activated?
•*BASSA•*Login
Instead Bassa's chairperson insisted that BF contact her personally for an explanation of Bassa's perceived breaches of the DA during the last snow fall. Permission was given last time only on the condition that no Volunteer Cabin Crew or Mixed Fleet crew were to operate whilst legacy crew sat at home, this Bassa believes BA breached.
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This is probably aimed at MissM... I'm an engineer for BA and over the last 10 or 20 years we've changed the way we work. We've made significant changes which have meant greater productivity and cut out unnecessary work. Litebulbs will probably back me up on that! As a consequence BA are not starting a new line of engineers to undercut or replace us. Can you tell me any changes BASSA have made to improve your efficiency?
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Miss M
The 48hr rule after a diversion has been an outdated process for years, which from simply a crew point of view has gone against us, as many of us have families to get back to for example. You could divert to LGW, yet Bassa would insist that the crew stay in a hotel 30 miles from LHR for 2 days!!! Bonkers.
Lets not even talk about the problems it brings to BA from an operation point of view, or the promlems it leaves our customers. Bassa have known this for years. BUT, would they ever think to be proactive and go to BA and change it. NO WAY. The simple fact is, this would still be the same in 2020 and longer if Bassa were allowed to keep it. What hacks me off so much about Bassa, is that they don't even try to change something that would actually BENEFIT their members. No, just keep the status quo.
Lets not even talk about the problems it brings to BA from an operation point of view, or the promlems it leaves our customers. Bassa have known this for years. BUT, would they ever think to be proactive and go to BA and change it. NO WAY. The simple fact is, this would still be the same in 2020 and longer if Bassa were allowed to keep it. What hacks me off so much about Bassa, is that they don't even try to change something that would actually BENEFIT their members. No, just keep the status quo.
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Miss M Wrote
Um... no. Some cabin crew have been employed by BA for a substantial number of years. They have, along with the other 30,000+ employees of the company, contributed at times to its profitability. Cabin crew have also been responsible for more lost days due to sickness, created more uncertainty for BA's customers with threats of strike action, actually walked out for more strike days than any other part of the airline and as such have probably done more damage to the company's overall profitability than any other part of the workforce. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I don't doubt that cabin crew are a strong community, however, it would appear that not all of that community believe that strike action is the best way to resolve this dispute, as evidenced by the numbers who reported for work earlier this year. What was the soubriquet applied ?? Oh yes, Sausage Chips And Beans. Such a wonderful feel of community spirit. I might disagree with my colleagues at times, but I will defend their right to hold an opposing view to my own. What I cannot condone is the abuse that the strikers have hurled at colleagues who simply believed that striking was wrong. The acrimonious comments heaped on colleagues from across the airline who volunteered to take on cabin crew roles in order to keep the company flying have been totally unwarranted. We are just people who hold a very different viewpoint on what the effect of strike action could be on BA. We wish to preserve the jobs of the other 75% of workers who make up this company.
Judging from the turnout, it would seem that over half of cabin crew also hold a similar view. They may have voted to 'send a message', but clearly did not want to walk out. Is that the action of a strong community ?
What selfish reasons did the CEO have ? I thought that CEO's were put in place to manage the company on behalf of the shareholders. The object of the exercise being to provide shareholders with a good return on investment and ensuring the long term profitability of the organisation. CEO's tend to have their rewards package tied very closely to the profitability of the company, so it is target driven and a chunk of it is in share options etc. The targets are set by the board.
I would suggest that the outgoing CEO has done a good job at ensuring that a lot of the fat has been trimmed from BA. He has halved the number of senior managers, reduced the rest of the management population by a third, driven through changes in working practices on ground staff that has seen significant cost savings. He has also steered the company through one of the most turbulent periods in air transport, with the twin challenges of a downturn in premium demand as a result of the global economy, plus the rise of the low cost operators. He also managed to get the company to achieve a 10% profit margin, something that had eluded previous CEOs. I don't think that is destroying the company. Sure, it has been painful, but as the saying goes, you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.
BA is in a better position now than it would have been if he had not pushed through these changes. It would be in an even better position if cabin crew would recognise the need for change in their own area and stop what a lot of other staff see to be a pointless dispute. .
Because some of us have created ourselves a career with BA and brought the company to where it is today. We are not going to let a selfish CEO destroy what we have achieved for his selfish reasons.
We are a strong community.
We are a strong community.
I don't doubt that cabin crew are a strong community, however, it would appear that not all of that community believe that strike action is the best way to resolve this dispute, as evidenced by the numbers who reported for work earlier this year. What was the soubriquet applied ?? Oh yes, Sausage Chips And Beans. Such a wonderful feel of community spirit. I might disagree with my colleagues at times, but I will defend their right to hold an opposing view to my own. What I cannot condone is the abuse that the strikers have hurled at colleagues who simply believed that striking was wrong. The acrimonious comments heaped on colleagues from across the airline who volunteered to take on cabin crew roles in order to keep the company flying have been totally unwarranted. We are just people who hold a very different viewpoint on what the effect of strike action could be on BA. We wish to preserve the jobs of the other 75% of workers who make up this company.
Judging from the turnout, it would seem that over half of cabin crew also hold a similar view. They may have voted to 'send a message', but clearly did not want to walk out. Is that the action of a strong community ?
What selfish reasons did the CEO have ? I thought that CEO's were put in place to manage the company on behalf of the shareholders. The object of the exercise being to provide shareholders with a good return on investment and ensuring the long term profitability of the organisation. CEO's tend to have their rewards package tied very closely to the profitability of the company, so it is target driven and a chunk of it is in share options etc. The targets are set by the board.
I would suggest that the outgoing CEO has done a good job at ensuring that a lot of the fat has been trimmed from BA. He has halved the number of senior managers, reduced the rest of the management population by a third, driven through changes in working practices on ground staff that has seen significant cost savings. He has also steered the company through one of the most turbulent periods in air transport, with the twin challenges of a downturn in premium demand as a result of the global economy, plus the rise of the low cost operators. He also managed to get the company to achieve a 10% profit margin, something that had eluded previous CEOs. I don't think that is destroying the company. Sure, it has been painful, but as the saying goes, you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.
BA is in a better position now than it would have been if he had not pushed through these changes. It would be in an even better position if cabin crew would recognise the need for change in their own area and stop what a lot of other staff see to be a pointless dispute. .
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BA Strategy
It's interesting that BA appear to be encouraging crew to leave BASSA without actually breaking the law - plenty of rumours about the new individual offer before it was made public, and no actual proof required of non-membership.
So far everything that BA has done has been carefully considered. If they really want the moderates who would have been likely to vote no to a strike to not take part in the ballot, it implies that they are trying to engineer are yes vote by a smaller Union.
Why?
So far everything that BA has done has been carefully considered. If they really want the moderates who would have been likely to vote no to a strike to not take part in the ballot, it implies that they are trying to engineer are yes vote by a smaller Union.
Why?
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brought the company to where it is today.
Seriously though, whilst there are a great number of cabin crew who recognise the business we are in, who care passionately about the customer and recognise the value of repeat business, they are greatly overshadowed by a militant minority, whose only desire is to provide the minimum and bleat about the injustice of it all in their rush to the bunks (90 mins on a JFK, anyone?). Whilst grasping every penny from BA that they can, including invoking the 48 hour rest claim in the event of a diversion. Is this
I and many others will be sticking to current scheduling agreements.
My next trip is an LR and if we divert I will be requesting 2 local nights as per our agreement.
My next trip is an LR and if we divert I will be requesting 2 local nights as per our agreement.
are devoted and passionate about their jobs. I love my job more than anything and make sure that every single passenger who gets off the aircraft is pleased
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Gonna have to jump to Miss M's defense a little here and say that, following the strikes, some of the BEST crew I worked with were also some of the most militant.
The majority of us, regardless of what side of the fence we're on, do love the job and love looking after the customer. Those customers will suffer if there's a strike - such is the nature of the beast - but when not striking even those who have been following Bassa's misguided advice from day one are keen to leave these issues off the aircraft.
The majority of us, regardless of what side of the fence we're on, do love the job and love looking after the customer. Those customers will suffer if there's a strike - such is the nature of the beast - but when not striking even those who have been following Bassa's misguided advice from day one are keen to leave these issues off the aircraft.
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Sorry, there is something not quite right here. If cabi
n crew really love to serve customers, how does that square with causing disruption and/or acting in a manner calculated to dissuade customers from flying BA? If they really put customers first, they would not behave in this way.
n crew really love to serve customers, how does that square with causing disruption and/or acting in a manner calculated to dissuade customers from flying BA? If they really put customers first, they would not behave in this way.
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Because some of us have created ourselves a career with BA...
"Cabin crew" is not a career position. It is a job. Yes, it can lead to career opportunities within the company but it is not a career in itself.
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Utter tosh Dave Bloke.
Career:
1. progress or development of a person through life or some aspect of life.
2. a profession or occupation chosen as a life's work.
Thousands upon thousands of flight attendants world wide have chosen that occupation as a life´s work. Some are FAs for the duration of their careers and have a so called horizontal career.
A percentage progress to higher ranks through ambition, study and personal & professional development.
Starting off their career as a lowest rank SH FA and ending it approximately 30 years later as highest ranked CSD/Senior Purser/CCP on wide body aircraft. A so called vertical career.
**********
Colonel White, you have written many a well argued post on this thread, but your last seems not quite on par.
You imply that loving certain aspects of ones job precludes taking industrial action.
Which is a logically unsound line of reasoning.
Career:
1. progress or development of a person through life or some aspect of life.
2. a profession or occupation chosen as a life's work.
Thousands upon thousands of flight attendants world wide have chosen that occupation as a life´s work. Some are FAs for the duration of their careers and have a so called horizontal career.
A percentage progress to higher ranks through ambition, study and personal & professional development.
Starting off their career as a lowest rank SH FA and ending it approximately 30 years later as highest ranked CSD/Senior Purser/CCP on wide body aircraft. A so called vertical career.
**********
Colonel White, you have written many a well argued post on this thread, but your last seems not quite on par.
If cabin crew really love to serve customers, how does that square with causing disruption ...
Which is a logically unsound line of reasoning.
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Dave Block,
Any job can be a career for someone.
You are very brave coming on a thread specifically set up for cabin crew to air their thoughts on an international forum and say that none of us have a career.
A lot of us don't agree with how Unite and Bassa have dealt with BA but this general attitude that being cabin crew is unskilled and should be low paid and not anything that someone might want to do long term and therefore not be a career is something that I don't think many of us would agree with.
Any job can be a career for someone.
You are very brave coming on a thread specifically set up for cabin crew to air their thoughts on an international forum and say that none of us have a career.
A lot of us don't agree with how Unite and Bassa have dealt with BA but this general attitude that being cabin crew is unskilled and should be low paid and not anything that someone might want to do long term and therefore not be a career is something that I don't think many of us would agree with.
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This is probably aimed at MissM... I'm an engineer for BA and over the last 10 or 20 years we've changed the way we work. We've made significant changes which have meant greater productivity and cut out unnecessary work. Litebulbs will probably back me up on that! As a consequence BA are not starting a new line of engineers to undercut or replace us. Can you tell me any changes BASSA have made to improve your efficiency?
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Utter tosh Dave Bloke.
Perhaps when you have a moment you would like to tell us why you think it can't be a career!