BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

[The Blu Riband]

This is what they demanded and what they now want us to vote against

Don't you just love Bassa!

[plodding along]

There was also the major issue of both sides agreeing exactly what legal cases would be conceded, and discontinued through the courts.

I thought BA made it quite clear that ALL cases pertaining to the dispute would be dropped.

That's staff travel, crew levels and pay deductions for strike days.

It seems BASSA would like to reach an "agreement" with BA and then try to win back any concessions in the courts.

[MrBunker]

Originally Posted by gingerminge

Mr B that second post of yours copied from the BASSA forum isn't from BASSA but from a crewmember who posted it on there.

Don't understand how you can say its from BASSA???

Please read again. I didn't say it was from BASSA, I said it leaves you in no doubt, when it's left up for all to read on a union forum, which way the union are tacitly suggesting you cast your votes. We can all do semantic subtlety, indeed, those of us possessed of a more cynical disposition might argue that an unwillingness to question the semantic gymnastics employed by BASSA and a similar unwillingness to read what BA have written, as opposed to what BASSA are telling people they've written has, in no small part, led us to where we are today.

MrB

[Human Factor]

...but merely pawns in a bigger game.

Twas ever thus. Right from day one. Of course, no-one on here will say "I told you so..."

[Pornpants1]

HF

Quote:
...but merely pawns in a bigger game.
Twas ever thus. Right from day one. Of course, no-one on here will say "I told you so..."

......... and even now BASSA members can't or won't put 2 and 2 together and realise that the recent CC89/Amicus denouncing of the "new deal" is just a political ploy by Les Baylis to gain a few more votes from Lenny of Liverpool.

Further more Jerry Hicks pops up from time to time and promises the earth, BASSA members need to wake up and realise that this was never about them

The Left and the Jerry Hicks campaign

makes for some good reading

[Meal Chucker]

Just arrived in my in-box, apparently from the Amicus/CC89 web site -

Deal, or No Deal?

Well, dear friends and colleagues it has been an interesting week – one which reached a high point when we formally rejected the latest resurrection of the British Airways offer.

This came at the end of a great deal of soul searching and the profound feeling that this has indeed become a two dog fight. Sadly, it seems it has become Unite and British Airways vs Amicus and Bassa. We are being held to ransom at every turn. How ridiculous is it that we have to sweet talk Unite and kowtow to them in order to get the promise of an industrial action ballot, when it is your right to have one, if that is what you want. Indeed, you have been screaming that at us and them for months now. What more must you do? Reject this offer for the third time? So be it.

What seems to have been forgotten is that you, the members, are the lifeblood of this union, and in a REAL member led union YOUR needs, wants and desires come first and not the irresolute conveniences of the union hierarchy.

At the last JOINT branch meeting, and a well attended meeting it was we might add, having rejected the last BA offer, the COMBINED membership voted for and gave the JOINT committee a mandate to pursue an industrial action ballot.

So, where is it?

We can tell you where it is: Swept under the carpet, ignored and instead a staged offer is put on the table that blatantly tries to divert you and buy you off. Unite think it's a job well done because we have some semblance staff travel back and some untried and untested undertaking to review the disciplinary process and cases; a process that will not be open to any outside scrutiny and reduces your access to the courts. Both are a result of ineptness and lack of strength in the face of the industrial bully! We are meant to be a “super union", big and strong – but you would never have guessed it.

The strategy it seems is to wear you down with long periods of inactivity, the endless consultative ballots, threats of worsening offers, and finally through the presentation of a dangerously and loosely worded document with a dishonourable recommendation attached. It is hoped that YOU the membership will vote to accept it, thus sealing your fate, and when YOU accept it and it doesn't deliver, it will be YOU and not the union that is held responsible because you ACCEPTED it!

The reality is this: A dead fish is what it is, a dead fish. It only stinks more the longer it is left on the table, a bit like this offer. We have already voted twice to reject it. "WE DONT WANT IT AND WHAT IT CONTAINS" and that specifically relates to the headline points for discussion which are ALL British Airways AGENDA items.

As much as it pains us to say IT IS TIME TO START AGAIN with agenda items of mutual interest proposed and negotiated by your local representatives. Regurgitating offers that reduce in value every time they reappear, coercing you into accepting a deal because if you reject it is only going to come back worse is not acting in YOUR best interests. We said NO! We said YOU are worth more than that, and YOU and US all `TOGETHER’ must hold out for a fair OFFER that protects OUR future with FAIRNESS AND TRANSPARENCY.

Everything is on our side, don't forget that. Ask yourself this question;

How long can British Airways hold out against a proactive union that uses it best resource proudly and wisely: REGULARindustrial action? How long could Willie Walsh sustain the cost of the VCC's, falling bookings because people won’t trust the airline to deliver, the loss of market share and brand erosion and all the other costs that have totalled in excess of £200 million. We would like to know the real cost of this dispute to date.


Where are we now? It seems both Unite and BA are so convinced that you will accept this latest off that they have BOTH chosen to ignore the Formal Amicus Rejection. That is expected of Willie Walsh because he is about to pull off the coup of the century! However it also indicates that lack of integrity and meaning his words have.
But Unite? Well, it seems AMICUS have now been sidelined. Punished for representing the truth? Does that sound familiar? Is this the joint tactics of union and employer, or does it just boil down to basic human reaction: When you don't like what you hear, you turn your back and ignore it, in the hope that it might go away?

Well, guess what, we are still here and will continue to shout from the lonely peak so that all may hear the message and the REASONS why:

"Vote NO" "Vote NO" "Vote NO" "Vote NO" "Vote NO" "Vote NO" "Vote NO" !

We support the BASSA constitution which was amended after 2007 to reflect that only YOU can call off industrial action.
And once again, please be assured we fully support the democratic process and are equally pleased that you will also get the opportunity to FINALLY decide the fate of this resurrected offer.

But democracy works both ways and your reps should be able to communicate with you in an open and truthful manner. Your reps ought not to be dictated to, gagged and forced into sending you a cleverly worded document that has no real substance. You deserve an analysis that identifies the extent of the toxic and lasting elements of the offer – not one which sugar coats, tones down or even camouflages them. You deserve more than you are to be afforded, in the name of “your democratic right”, howsoever taken in vain.
And why can’t our BASSA colleagues include a letter, already published, in the voting pack that tells you how they feel about the offer? Maybe because it might persuade you to do the right thing?

If pursuit of `your democratic right’ was the truly at heart, where IS the consultative ballot?

It should have been sent out to you over TEN DAYS ago, but once again, more delays. Delay to finalise the small print which ultimately has punitive results for the community. Small print that will see you having your staff travel removed as an individual if you dare to pursue BA through the courts, further denying you your democratic rights. But the cherry on the cake is that Unite will need (and appear ready) to agree to fully support the British Airways position and will deny you ALL support if you did decide to pursue a legal case in your own individual right as a member. Is legal support now considered a discretionary benefit, a little like staff travel?

And of course, let’s not forget…..the tactical result of regurgitating this offer and delaying the consultative ballot - as the window for IA over Christmas is closing. Have our union and Willie Walsh also agreed to do whatever they can to avoid the inevitable publicity?

Ponder these things whilst you await your ballot paper.

If you accept this offer, DEMOCRACY and your FUTURE will disappear within British Airways in more ways than one. THAT is the only guarantee the offer holds for us all.

Use the vote wisely; support your reps and each other:

Vote NO and reject this offer.

[Lady Fly Fly]

Good to see Amicus/CC89 have got some backbone and put it in writing!!

[Juan Tugoh]

Interesting but rather irrelevant. How many members does CC89/AMICUS have? Not enough for it to make any great impact.

As this offer has been rejected by them what happens if BASSA accept the offer? Will they be left out on their own with no return of ST except that which has already been returned? Will their members not get the pay rises that are part of the offer? Will any CC89 members that have been through the disciplinary process not have their cases reviewed?

The threat of continued IA must really have BA quaking, there has been an on-going dispute now for 12 months, do they really think they can continue to come up with new grounds for IA in order to keep the IA protected?

I thought BASSA had lost the plot and were living in a dream world, but this makes the BASSA leadership look like they are completely aware of the real-politik. Perhaps this is more about the future leadership of UNITE and an appearance of militancy. Whatever the thought process is, it is deeply flawed.

[Ops_Room_Junkie]

backbone

Not sure that's what's needed. An ability to negotiate and common sense might be more worthwhile. Many wars have been lost by misguided fools, doubtless with backbone, balls of steel etc but without the common sense to know which battles are worth fighting, which wars can be won and MOST IMPORTANTLY which is morally the right side to take. You would think BA were suggesting that 9year old children were sent back up chimneys from they way this lot try and take the moral high ground

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by Juan Tugoh

The threat of continued IA must really have BA quaking, there has been an on-going dispute now for 12 months, do they really think they can continue to come up with new grounds for IA in order to keep the IA protected?

Industrial action in response to sacked and suspended members. Nothing to do with the current dispute. If it was, then obviously, they were punished because of the industrial action, not for matters of discipline.

[Snas]

Industrial action in response to sacked and suspended members. Nothing to do with the current dispute. If it was, then obviously, they were punished because of the industrial action, not for matters of discipline.

Should members not know the details of these incidents then, if they are expected to be called out on strike in support of them? Knowing the details may indeed result in support, or perhaps a feeling that the suspensions were deserved, in the absense of the details how can one form an informed view?

[Hotel Mode]

Industrial action in response to sacked and suspended members. Nothing to do with the current dispute. If it was, then obviously, they were punished because of the industrial action, not for matters of discipline.

Isnt the problem here that both BASSA and the Unite leadership used this very issue as a reason both before and during the last strike. They have since cited it (and 2 other reasons) as a cause for a further ballot. BA quickly responded to this saying that they believed that these reasons were all a continuation of the existing dispute and anyone striking on those causes would be conducting unlawful industrial action.

No doubt should a ballot for strike action be made with these reasons they will reaffirm that message and act accordingly on day 1 of the strike. It is then for the now ex-employees to take BA to tribunal and prove that it was lawful action. Meanwhile everyone turns up on day 2.

Its not a game I'd want to be involved in.

[Litebulbs]

Snas

I agree. I am not rabble rousing, just pointing out a reason to ballot, that is independent from the previous actions.

[Litebulbs]

Hotel Mode

A possible catch 22?

To admit that the dismissals were targeted, makes them unfair. To not, would allow IA, with the cost implications, regardless of the effect. A business decision, no more no less.

[Hotel Mode]

To admit that the dismissals were targeted, makes them unfair. To not, would allow IA, with the cost implications, regardless of the effect. A business decision, no more no less.

I dont understand? Why do BA have to do either? It was the union that linked the dismissals with the previous IA not the other way around. They are also the ones that need new grounds for a dispute. BA can just say this was used as a justification last time so its not new. Nothing else need be said.

[Litebulbs]

Well, it will not be us who decide; back off to the courts me thinks.

[Hotel Mode]

Yes, certainly, but BA do not need to take it to court before the strike. They just need to inform all that may be induced to strike that they believe the IA to be unlawful and the consequences that will follow and watch the majority turn up to work. Plus deal with a few tribunals which even if lost by BA will result in limited compensation.

[Litebulbs]

Now that is the cold hard truth and I would hope that the point is made to all those involved?

[Hotel Mode]

Now that is the cold hard truth and I would hope that the point is made to all those involved?

It worries me that the CC89 and BASSA leadership dont appear to be up to that simple piece of logic and continue to blame Unite for their reluctance to ballot anytime they fancy it.

[Lady Fly Fly]

Ops Room

from they way this lot try and take the moral high ground

Well we will see when 'this lot' vote!


Nice turn of phrase.