BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Have to admit RG I don't know what to make of it anymore. I think mistakes have been made on both the unions part but also BA's. At some point we are going to have to move on. I think a monster has been created now and god only knows what the answer is now to get back to a happy medium.
I'm just glad I am fast approaching retirement so I can put my delsey out to graze.
I'm just glad I am fast approaching retirement so I can put my delsey out to graze.
Join Date: Jun 2010
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DMC wrote:
Nope, your wrong there, I accepted the changes in my department long ago, and with two years of record losses behind us, a small half year profit is no windfall, and certainly no gaurantee of a full year profit, as traditionally Q3 & Q4 are poor, and the many profit has always come from Q1 & Q2.
The employee who will have to swallow hard are those that truly believed that a victory was heading thier was as some vindication for all the IA and unrest causes during this bitter dispute.
I don't think it was ever a fight for survival. I think the bonuses that have been awarded to the BA heirachy in the last 6 months almost tells us that story. Also I would imagine this would be a little hard to swallow if I were any employee of BA right now.
The employee who will have to swallow hard are those that truly believed that a victory was heading thier was as some vindication for all the IA and unrest causes during this bitter dispute.
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Ginger
Yes I agree BA have acted horribly in a lot of this but I think the time has come to move away from the "BASSA can do no wong" mantra and start to look at ourselves/them a bit more.
Many blame Unite but more and more I have become concerned over
1. Lack of communication
2. Lack of direction
3. Court FACTS (mentioned again today in many of the points) about the union branches not being able to work with eachother.
4. Rumours of big splits in the rep community due to perceptions of reps having feathered their own nest over the years and not caring.
5. Some reps only interested in their own grade (LH CSD)
6. Rumours about one (ex) rep receiving branch funds directy
7. Rumours of detatched houses worth in excess of half a million pounds
8. Us the normal people suffering loss of pay and staff tavel, costing all my (meagre) savings and more. I was pretty much destitute after backing BASSA.
I don't know what to do or where to go now.
Yes I agree BA have acted horribly in a lot of this but I think the time has come to move away from the "BASSA can do no wong" mantra and start to look at ourselves/them a bit more.
Many blame Unite but more and more I have become concerned over
1. Lack of communication
2. Lack of direction
3. Court FACTS (mentioned again today in many of the points) about the union branches not being able to work with eachother.
4. Rumours of big splits in the rep community due to perceptions of reps having feathered their own nest over the years and not caring.
5. Some reps only interested in their own grade (LH CSD)
6. Rumours about one (ex) rep receiving branch funds directy
7. Rumours of detatched houses worth in excess of half a million pounds
8. Us the normal people suffering loss of pay and staff tavel, costing all my (meagre) savings and more. I was pretty much destitute after backing BASSA.
I don't know what to do or where to go now.
I blame not Unite as is popular but BASSA and cc89 who it seems would not even talk to eachother never mind the company.
A rather large proportion of BASSA members need to take a big hit for:
1. Not dealing with their union leadership i.e. allowing their leadership to publish untruths; not challenging statements presented as 'fact', etc, etc.
2. Voting for strike action ...... when many did so just because "BASSA told us to", and did not have the courage of their convictions to follow it through. Never ever vote for a strike if you have no intention of actually doing so!
3. Believing that only BASSA could be right, even when the overwhelming evidence from all other quarters was to the contrary. The BASSA membership needs to pull it's collective head out of the sand! Even basic research would have quickly shown up BASSA for the clothesless emperor that it is. Or are you too lazy or dumb to even try thinking for yourselves?
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Abbey
I did blindly follow whatever BASSA told me to do. I am that sort of person that trusts those in the union but I am beginning to regret it and my eyes are being opened and I don't like what I think I see.
I did blindly follow whatever BASSA told me to do. I am that sort of person that trusts those in the union but I am beginning to regret it and my eyes are being opened and I don't like what I think I see.
Rosie,
Well, at least a modicum of personal responsibilty in that last post of yours ..... a start, I suppose. But your preceding postings were firmly putting the blame with BA and your union.
BASSA could not have gone down the rocky road that it did without the explicit cooperation of its membership. And despite all the warnings given from both friend and foe, BASSA's membership kept it's head firmly buried.
Sympathy is going to be in seriously short supply, I hope you are planning for that. Good luck.
Well, at least a modicum of personal responsibilty in that last post of yours ..... a start, I suppose. But your preceding postings were firmly putting the blame with BA and your union.
BASSA could not have gone down the rocky road that it did without the explicit cooperation of its membership. And despite all the warnings given from both friend and foe, BASSA's membership kept it's head firmly buried.
Sympathy is going to be in seriously short supply, I hope you are planning for that. Good luck.
Rosie Girl.
Your post #1029 is all too true.
You have admitted to believing all the 'info' that was spouted by bassa. Sadly for so many on here, we have been saying over and over again that it was ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL that bassa members look at info from all sides before making their minds up.
Unfortunately, bassa members that allowed their reps to behave in such a selfish and arrogant manner are also culpable. It is so important now that the people like yourself (those who have suddenly realised just how bad the bassa reps have behaved) ensure that a call for proper elections are called for - and that the power hungry 'reps you have been lumbered with are binned.
Your post #1029 is all too true.
You have admitted to believing all the 'info' that was spouted by bassa. Sadly for so many on here, we have been saying over and over again that it was ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL that bassa members look at info from all sides before making their minds up.
Unfortunately, bassa members that allowed their reps to behave in such a selfish and arrogant manner are also culpable. It is so important now that the people like yourself (those who have suddenly realised just how bad the bassa reps have behaved) ensure that a call for proper elections are called for - and that the power hungry 'reps you have been lumbered with are binned.
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ROSIEGIRL
I think it is very big of you to admit that. Alas, I think the majority of BA union members (not just BASSA or CC89) believe their reps have only the best interests of the workforce at heart and they would therefore give their reps their full support for whatever action they deem appropriate. This works fine as long as your reps are truly worthy of that trust.
Saying that, I find it incomprehensible that anyone could have complete trust in a rep who has been sacked for clearly valid reasons, has zero chance of reinstatement, and who clearly hates BA management with every bone of his body. It would be impossible for such a rep to claim that he is not compromised by his emotions. At least, that is what would have been going through me head a long long time ago.
I think it is very big of you to admit that. Alas, I think the majority of BA union members (not just BASSA or CC89) believe their reps have only the best interests of the workforce at heart and they would therefore give their reps their full support for whatever action they deem appropriate. This works fine as long as your reps are truly worthy of that trust.
Saying that, I find it incomprehensible that anyone could have complete trust in a rep who has been sacked for clearly valid reasons, has zero chance of reinstatement, and who clearly hates BA management with every bone of his body. It would be impossible for such a rep to claim that he is not compromised by his emotions. At least, that is what would have been going through me head a long long time ago.
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misscanada
ROSIEGIRL: Sorry but I must disagree with you apportioning blame to both BASSA and CC89 equally. During my time in cabin crew, CC89 were constantly derided by the BASSA leadership, (and membership), as lackeys/tools of BA's management. Their crime? The willingness to sit down and NEGOTIATE.
I should also at this point like to qualify my lack of sympathy entry recently: It was for the crew who over many a bar/roomparty chat could be so vicious and indeed threatening, to moderate views that went against the prevailing opinions of their leadership. This was not an occasional incident but a regular feature of these 'debates'.
To all the decent, hard working and fun people I knew in cabin crew I sincerely regret your betrayal by a militant faction in your union leadership. PLEASE look at the true history of this whole sorry episode and question their motives.
I should also at this point like to qualify my lack of sympathy entry recently: It was for the crew who over many a bar/roomparty chat could be so vicious and indeed threatening, to moderate views that went against the prevailing opinions of their leadership. This was not an occasional incident but a regular feature of these 'debates'.
To all the decent, hard working and fun people I knew in cabin crew I sincerely regret your betrayal by a militant faction in your union leadership. PLEASE look at the true history of this whole sorry episode and question their motives.
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Rosie,
You are where you are. There is still an offer on the table. One step forward based on today's ruling, is the contractual MTP. You will now have to make a choice if the offer is better than pursuing the full reinstatement staff travel through the legal system. Then you have the dismissed and suspended. Some if not all who are sacked, will still be sacked. ACAS will review each case and I would bet that there will be hope for some.
Or you can vote no.
You are where you are. There is still an offer on the table. One step forward based on today's ruling, is the contractual MTP. You will now have to make a choice if the offer is better than pursuing the full reinstatement staff travel through the legal system. Then you have the dismissed and suspended. Some if not all who are sacked, will still be sacked. ACAS will review each case and I would bet that there will be hope for some.
Or you can vote no.
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The trouble is what do I/we do now?
I can't change the union single handedly. I won't join PCCC as I beleive as a workforce we should have strong representation but having been convinced that after the tide had turned financially that we would win today in court. Certainly that is what I was led to believe.
I suppose I am just very down today after returning from a trip and not having slept but one thing is for sure I won't be succered in again.
I wish I was like ginger and had not long to go but I have an dependants to support. I cant earn the money I do anywhere else so I am stuck and now feel isolated and vunerable.
I blame both BA and BASSA for this and if it helps myself as well for the choices I made.
I can't change the union single handedly. I won't join PCCC as I beleive as a workforce we should have strong representation but having been convinced that after the tide had turned financially that we would win today in court. Certainly that is what I was led to believe.
I suppose I am just very down today after returning from a trip and not having slept but one thing is for sure I won't be succered in again.
I wish I was like ginger and had not long to go but I have an dependants to support. I cant earn the money I do anywhere else so I am stuck and now feel isolated and vunerable.
I blame both BA and BASSA for this and if it helps myself as well for the choices I made.
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Rosiegirl
Ladies and Gentlemen,
ROSIEGIRL, a newcomer and self confessed BASSA supporter, (up to now) deserves a lot more sympathy and respect for coming here and declaring her despair and horror at how this has all worked out.
People like RG who have followed the BASSA line through thick and thin, but now come to realise that their trust and loyalty has been misplaced in reps who have behaved in a fashion that was not worthy of such trust and support, deserve more from us than the less than helpful "I told you so" type remarks.
It takes courage to voice such concerns as RG has and to admit that they have erred in their judgment. None of us have perfect judgment, we all make mistakes. It is sad that the trust placed in the union that is there for the protection of it's members has been so grievously abused by the current self-serving leadership of BASSA.
This forum has been a little one sided for many months as we have had precious few BASSA members prepared to debate with us the rights and wrongs of this dispute. There have been some noticeable and welcome exceptions to that, we may not agree with them but what is the point of a forum where all we do is agree with each other all the time? The whole point of a debate is to persuade people to our viewpoint by the power of our reasoned argument. When they do come around to that view, we should welcome them not abuse them, else what is the point of debate?
ROSIEGIRL, welcome to the forum, I am truly sorry that you and your colleagues have been so badly let down and mislead by the BASSA leadership. Hopefully there are many more within the CC community that share your experiences and hold similar views to you. The militant hardcore will continue to try to blather about how this was a victory and that BA really lost by winning and that everything is going according to plan. At least here you can find a place to challenge those ideas and perhaps provide you with a counter to such lies. Once again, welcome.
JT
ROSIEGIRL, a newcomer and self confessed BASSA supporter, (up to now) deserves a lot more sympathy and respect for coming here and declaring her despair and horror at how this has all worked out.
People like RG who have followed the BASSA line through thick and thin, but now come to realise that their trust and loyalty has been misplaced in reps who have behaved in a fashion that was not worthy of such trust and support, deserve more from us than the less than helpful "I told you so" type remarks.
It takes courage to voice such concerns as RG has and to admit that they have erred in their judgment. None of us have perfect judgment, we all make mistakes. It is sad that the trust placed in the union that is there for the protection of it's members has been so grievously abused by the current self-serving leadership of BASSA.
This forum has been a little one sided for many months as we have had precious few BASSA members prepared to debate with us the rights and wrongs of this dispute. There have been some noticeable and welcome exceptions to that, we may not agree with them but what is the point of a forum where all we do is agree with each other all the time? The whole point of a debate is to persuade people to our viewpoint by the power of our reasoned argument. When they do come around to that view, we should welcome them not abuse them, else what is the point of debate?
ROSIEGIRL, welcome to the forum, I am truly sorry that you and your colleagues have been so badly let down and mislead by the BASSA leadership. Hopefully there are many more within the CC community that share your experiences and hold similar views to you. The militant hardcore will continue to try to blather about how this was a victory and that BA really lost by winning and that everything is going according to plan. At least here you can find a place to challenge those ideas and perhaps provide you with a counter to such lies. Once again, welcome.
JT
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Rosiegirl, Welcome from me as well! 
I bet there are many more crew out there feeling the same as you do. The recriminations will start over the next couple of days and the forums will be buzzing. You still have the power of your vote and you will have to decide whether to prolong the dispute or to accept that 2010 was a bad year and move on. It is hard to accept that your money was lost for no reason but it will be harder still to throw more good money after it.
Vote to take the offer and live to fight another day.
I bet there are many more crew out there feeling the same as you do. The recriminations will start over the next couple of days and the forums will be buzzing. You still have the power of your vote and you will have to decide whether to prolong the dispute or to accept that 2010 was a bad year and move on. It is hard to accept that your money was lost for no reason but it will be harder still to throw more good money after it.
Vote to take the offer and live to fight another day.
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Thanks for making me feel welcome.
I never go on the BASSA forum. I used to but it is full of bullys (funny given the angst over "flight deck bullying") and mob rule. No sensible debate is allowed, or at least wasnt when I used to read it. I guess it hasnt changed.
I don't know how to vote because there are some elements that I think are very bad but given what I now know I don't see what choice I have but to vote yes.
The CC89 letter has not helped my decision though, it has made me think again.
I genuinely dont know where to go and feel like I have no-one to guide me or give me advice.
When you are suddenly left exposed by those you trusted implicitly it is a very sobering and insecure feeling.
I never go on the BASSA forum. I used to but it is full of bullys (funny given the angst over "flight deck bullying") and mob rule. No sensible debate is allowed, or at least wasnt when I used to read it. I guess it hasnt changed.
I don't know how to vote because there are some elements that I think are very bad but given what I now know I don't see what choice I have but to vote yes.
The CC89 letter has not helped my decision though, it has made me think again.
I genuinely dont know where to go and feel like I have no-one to guide me or give me advice.
When you are suddenly left exposed by those you trusted implicitly it is a very sobering and insecure feeling.
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Rosiegirl
Stay with your union.
We lost a simple case towards what our dispute is all about which is a lot larger. Remember that the case of our case was whether crew complements were part of each crew member's contract. We probably lost because the court decided that it would have had massive impact on BA's operation because you as an individual crew member could have refused to operate without the appropiate number of cabin crew members onboard. Our court case was not about imposition which our dispute is about. In that perspective, the court case was small compared to the core of our actual dispute with the company.
When you receive your ballot, vote NO to this proposal as it's not worth the paper it has been written on. We still have a voice and a lot of power to fight BA.
And, I can imagine that a lot of people are rubbing their hands over today's ruling... But, ready my answer above. This is a small case in comparance our actual dispute.
Good luck BA should you want to be adding anything to our service routines with current crewing levels...
Stay with your union.
We lost a simple case towards what our dispute is all about which is a lot larger. Remember that the case of our case was whether crew complements were part of each crew member's contract. We probably lost because the court decided that it would have had massive impact on BA's operation because you as an individual crew member could have refused to operate without the appropiate number of cabin crew members onboard. Our court case was not about imposition which our dispute is about. In that perspective, the court case was small compared to the core of our actual dispute with the company.
When you receive your ballot, vote NO to this proposal as it's not worth the paper it has been written on. We still have a voice and a lot of power to fight BA.
And, I can imagine that a lot of people are rubbing their hands over today's ruling... But, ready my answer above. This is a small case in comparance our actual dispute.
Good luck BA should you want to be adding anything to our service routines with current crewing levels...